clutchdust

my friend with the '72 Z i've been working on wants to sell it. she's trying to determine if it's worth fixing the bent valve first. she thinks that if it's running properly (mostly) she can get 1k for it. without it running correctly, we're thinking only $300-$500. the body is mostly straight although it looks like there is eveidence of bondo (i haven't magnet tested the body yet). there is also significant rust along the lenght of the rocker panels. the interior is, well, 30 years old and not bad for being 30 years old. the engine seemed to run o.k. until that valve hung and got bent. i've never driven the car more than about 40 feet at a time so i can't say much about suspension. brakes will actually hold the car although the M/C caps decayed into a nasty goo and the 'fluid' looks more like chassis grease:sick: back to the original problem that caused the car to sit for so long from the beginning, there is an electrical problem somewhere that causes the taillights to cut out. i haven't actually seen this happen but that's what she tells me the car did and why she stopped driving it.

tragic news indeed. we are all saddened by this as these events know no borders and no politics. these astronauts, like all those before them, showed the world the wonder of the human spirit, the strength of cooperation, the foritude of determination and faces of courage. i hope this may be the last time i ever hear news like this, however, as long as mankind continues to be inquisitive he will push back the boundaries of his own existance and he will do so at his own peril. without failure, success wouldn't be so sweet. for those that can, we must. for those who can't, we should never let these deeds and this courage be forgotten.

thanks guys mudge, heat is always a problem for me. it is vegas afterall. i put a two core griffin in my 'vette and it was still running 200-205* even in october:ermm:

o.k. just so i get this straight before hand, lets see if i understand what some of you guys are saying about removing the head. here's the proceedure i think you guys are recommending: 1) remove cover, intake and exhaust, drain coolant 2) bring the engine around to line up the 'shiny' link to top of head 3) old a piece of heater or similar hose and wedge it down between the two sides of the cam chain. 4) remove fuel pump and cam sprocket 5) pull head bolts and remove head 6) fix head and reassemble in reverse order. how does that sound? especially step (3), am i on the same page now? at any point do need to actually remove the cam from the head? while were at it, i was going to ask about radiators. the one that's in there is cracked in several places so i need to replace it. instead of going with a recore or reproduction, i thought i would look for a griffen or be cool that's really close. does anyone have an aluminum rad that fits with minimal modifications?

one thing about the LSDs. if i can find one that's drop in, i'll likely go that way. if i have to do any fabricating to make something work, i'm not putting an import diff in there. i see corvette dana 36 and dana 44s on the corvette forum pretty frequently. i really wanted to buy one from this guy as a backup for mine. dana 44 all aluminum housing for $250. i really wanted to buy it but the guy lives in florida and i'm in vegas. it would have cost me as much to ship it as to buy it. the nice thing about the dana is i know i WILL NOT break it. i'd break the car before i'd break one of these diffs. the other nice thing is the dana 44 and c-4 dana 36s are all aluminum housings, they only weigh 75# fully assembled. might look at those infiniti and suby third members though. back to the head issue. do you guys buy your parts locally or are there any good mail-order/national parts house that specializes in the Z? i'm wondering why i don't see a supporting vendor menu that might have required parts. i only see 'restoration' stores advertising interior and body parts. the other question i had was when i pull this head off, do you think having it milled will result in any significant compression change? how will that affect the cam chain and cam timing?

thanks for the reply. does that mean i can order the '72 valves for this head and they should be the same? i mean, what is listed in the parts house books for a '72 will be correct for this head. right? i'm really surprised an IRS is not posi (limited slip). is there another third member commonly substituted for the factory one that is posi and how difficult would such a swap be?

so i'm getting ready to pull the head and check out those valves but i thought i would call a Z shop and get some pricing on some of the parts. they told me they needed a code off the head. now, i don't remember where but i thought i heard that the early cars had iron heads. this one is aluminum. the code on the head is E88. is this the head that is supposed to be on this engine? does anybody know of a good site for replacement parts? does this site have any supporting vendors? i also have an unrelated question about the rear end. is there a HD unit for these cars? what year(s) have such a unit and how do you identify them? are these cars 'posi'?

thanks for the tip. i'm going to see if i can get some time to work on it this weekend. i already have a haynes manual for it but i might go find a newer version since mine is written in the 'wrong' english. the thing talks about gudgeon pins and earths like i know what that means! i'm glad you guys mentioned it because i never even gave it a thought. i would have just pulled that bolt off the front of the cam sprocket and most likely watched in horror as the chain snapped down into the block. anything else i should watch for?

o.k., i think i can come up with a suitable antenna. so your saying to make sure i mark the timing and then slip the antenna through the chain as close to the block as possible? sorry, i haven't looked at it is about two weeks so my memory is kind of fuzzy as to it's configuration. please expand.

see, now this is why i like learning from other peoples mistakes. i had no idea about a tensioner. where do i need to jam a piece of hose? is this something in an archive folder? maybe i can just read up on someone else's step-by-step experience with this.

so if i do pull the head, how do i deal with the chain? i'm seriously not going to pull the front of the engine down for this crap. can i just mark the cam timing and pull the sproket bolt? any advise on this stuff?

beandip: not an XKE, 3rd gen 'vette. i'm considering this just because i need something sporty to drive on the street and the vette is so far beyond that now it just hurts.:devious: derk, the initial deal is $5/hr since i'm not an automobile mechanic, plus i'm doing this as a personal favor to her. she needs help getting back on her feet since she just lost her job in socal and had to move back here to get things straight.

one word.....:sick: but might as well:dead: . if you look really close, i think it's begging to be put out of it's misery.

daniel, here in nevada, i can just put a mechanics lein on it if things got nasty. i can't really see that happening but if it did, that would be an option. then nobody could sell the car. right now i don't know if i would want the car even when it's running. after all, i've never driven a Z so how would i know? i mean i like the shape and the looks and i've definately seen some good looking ones but i really don't know what they're like. can't imagine it NOT being fun though.

thanks guys. i talked to the owner today and i think we came to an agreement. i'm going to get it mechanically reliable from here out on my own $. when i'm done, or comfortable that it is reliable, i will total up the entire investment. if she wants to reimburse me, then she gets her car back and we're all happy. if it's more than she wants to spend, then i'll reimburse her for what she's already paid and consider that payment for the car. i explained to her the condition of the rust and the structural damage we're talking about so she knows. however, since we both live in vegas now and for the forseeable future, the amount of rust should not accelerate too rapidly. she's in a position right now where she needs a reliable car for the next few years that doesn't have a car note. i don't mind fixing things for her to keep it running so that's a bonus. no matter which one of us actually gets the car, the unfortunate truth is the best thing to do, from an expense standpoint, is just drive it until the wheels fall off.

sunshine through sunday, ehh? got sunblock? FG is that small, huh? buddies name was neil. we lost touch a few months after he moved. he would forward stuff to me though until about last year and i haven't gotten anything from him in a while. went by 'testtune'. i still miss vancouver... in july and august.

hey brian, i used to live in vancouver, wa for a couple years and a friend of mine moved up to FG about three years back. so....how's the weather? (sorry for that)

owner is out in the desert 'sunbathing' . just kidding. she was talking about restoring the car and i explained to her how serious the rust issue was so she's debating the worth of even spending money to get it running if it's a junk car. i haven't delved very deeply into because the rust is jumping out from under the paint to meet me (kinda bubbly, if you know what i mean:rolleyes: ). but hey, i can weld and i can bend sheetmetal so if i drive it for a couple years and fab up some new sheetmetal. i'm still thinking that $100-200 is not bad for a car, even if i have to throw it away in a few years.

some of you have followed my brief saga working on a friends '72. for those that haven't, this is what i know of it. she got it sometime in the '80s, i think as a graduation present, and used it as primary transportation for years. problem is, she lived in colorado for many of those years, you know, snow and salt:sick: anyway, she moved down to vegas in the early nineties and continued to drive the car relatively trouble free. it eventually developed an electrical problem she couldn't get fixed sometime around '98-'99 so she just parked it. that is were i come in, well, 3-4 years later anyway. she finds out i'm a mechanic (industrial) by trade and asks if i can get it running for her 'cause she loves her car. i say, "sure, i can get it running" and we bring it over to my house where it's been now for about 5 months. i have disassembled and 'overhauled' the carbs (yes, i threw away that cheesy piece of fuel line in the rebuild kits). blown out the fuel tank all the 'fuel' that was in there and filled it with fresh gas. replaced all the rubber fuel line, replaced the plugs and set the valve clearances and actually had it running there for a bit. everything sounded pretty good so i thought i had reached the top of the hill. next day i go to run it some more, to help flush the rest of the crappy gas and varnish from the tank and the lines but it wouldn't start. long story short, oops-too late! the valves started hanging open and apparently one got closed (mostly) by the piston :surprised so now i know that i have to at least pull the head off this thing and replace at least one valve. but you know it never stops there.:cross-eye now the car is relatively straight but has some serious cancer on the rocker panel due to the aforementioned snow and salt. otherwise, it's in fairly good condition for a 30+ year old car. now what i have in mind would be to get it running and in good working order and drive it for a couple years like that and then as time and money permit modifiy the crap out of it. with rust under the rockers that is pretty bad, is it worth investing a couple hundred $ in this car? i really have no idea what Z cars go for and how hard/easy it would be to fix the rust. maybe for a couple hundred dollars, it would be worth just driving it until the wheels fell off. whatcha think?

hi all, my name is gary but i go by clutchdust (don't want to tell you how many clutches earns a nickname like that) and i live in las vegas. married, two cats and a dog. i own a '94 chevy truck i use for business and an '81 corvette. the corvette has been my passion since i was a kid. i don't actually own a Z right now, nor have i ever. i have a friends '72 sitting in my driveway though. she parked it a few years ago because of an electrical problem and asked me a few months ago if i could get it running for her. so i've been working on it here and there but it looks like the years of no maintenance while it was running and even less maintenance while it was parked has taken it's toll. still, i've been looking at it for a couple months now and have to admit, it's a good looking car. almost rivals my vette (almost). i think i might just buy this car off her. it's rusting and needs alot of work but for a couple hundred bucks, i don't think it would be a bad deal at all. besides, i'm a grease-under-the-fingernails type and i've already envisioned a 4.3L chevy v-6 with a t-5 tranny in that big, open engine bay. oh yeah! mistressmotorsports, i think i may have met you at some point. i have worked a few SCCA and other races out here and i seem to recall that name.

hey guys, thanks for the input, even if the news isn't what i'd like to hear. i was afraid you were going to say that:ermm: this is a little bit of a new experience for me since i'm used to working on American iron, but engines is engines, right? phred, i'm afraid at this point that it must be a bent valve since i have done like you suggested already and the valve will not come back up. i get no compression on that cylinder and when the engine does run it does really funky things to my vacuum. too bad it wasn't the exhaust instead, at least it would run and be semi-stable. the intake just screws everything all to hell. so the next step as i see it is to talk to my friend and see if she wants to invest that kind of additional money in this car. if it were really straight and in very nice condition, there wouldn't be a question. unfortunately, that isn't the case though. she lived in colorado for a time and the winter salt has taken it's toll on the lower rocker panels and the floorboard appears to have been punched in from an improper jacking attempt. i may just offer to get it running and if she doesn't want to pay what the final cost is, i'll buy it from her from what she put into it so far. i did some checking yesterday and it appears i can pull the head and replace a bent valve and springs and all the upper gaskets for >$100. that's not that bad a deal. last set of questions (for this post) is if i do pull the head, as long as i have it off, should i have it milled? and how much will this bump compression? would it be worth it? if i do get this car i want it to be a little terror untill i can drop in my SBC:devious:

i'm still working on my friends '72. i finally got it running the other day. i did a C/R check because #6 seemed to be weak and found the valve adjustments were all scattered to hell. i readjusted the valves per my haynes manual: .008"/intake and .010"/exhaust, cold as measured between the cam lobe and rocker. this is the way i read it in the book. the problem i'm experiencing now is that i continue to have rocker arms jumping out of the valve guide (what do you call that little cup with rails the rocker rides on?). so after i adjusted the valves intially last week, i got it running and it sounded pretty good. i had to move it and it sat for a week over christmas while company was in town. so i go out to work on it last week and had a hell of a time getting it to start. i was even pouring raw gasoline in the carbs and it would not fire. so i do a compression check again (that is how desparate:ermm: ) and i find that the #$4 intake rocker has jumped up and is riding on top of the valve guide thingy. so i think, "hmm, that's weird" and i fix it and reset the clearance. i finally get it running and end up moving the car, everything seems to be running reasonably well considering the car hasn't run in 3+ years. got late so i put it up for the night. the next day, i want to just run it some more to run some of that crappy gas out of it and it won't start...again. go through the litany: got fuel, got spark, got compression... on 5 cylinders. i check and find #2 has done the same thing. i reset it and finally get it running but it has a definate miss. i pull the valve cover....AGAIN! to find the #3 intake rocker is cocked now. so i fix it and adjust the lash but notice this time that on this valve, the ball stud is ~1/4" higher than the others. i remove the rocker and measure across the top of the retainers and find the intake valve is lower than the valves next to it by ~1/4". i still get the car running but #3 cylinder has no compression, definately missing. so now for the questions: is valve to piston clearance tight enough that this 'cocked rocker' condition could cause valve to piston contact resulting in a bent valve? if the valve is bent, how did it bend #3 but not #2 or #4, which also jumped out of place? why do the rockers keep jumping out of place? is there a way, short of removing the head, to check the valve seat to see if the valve is bent or if it may just be a big chunk of carbon stuck in there? is there a good source on-line for valves and gaskets should this be the problem? hellllpppp!!!

thanks for the info. i have already done like you were suggesting with the rebuild. i rebuilt one before i even took the other one apart. i thought it was kind of odd that i actually opened up the right kit for the carburetor i was rebuilding the first time. little did i know both kits were the same! the rear needle i was talking about is definately one solid peice. i have cleaned it and confirmed it is definately not a two peice, ah, peice. i have had serious thoughts about just reusing it but i can't even get the needle part out to inspect it. you know how the front (i think) needle and seat, the shorter one, has that little clip to retain the needle in the seat? well, the back one (longer one) does not have that. i don't know if it is just crimped to where it won't come out or stuck (it will move up and down inside) so i'm confused. i'm going to take it by a local z shop here in the next couple of days and see what they have to say. thanks again.

so what do i do about both kits not having the needle and seat for this one? is there a third kit floating out there somewhere? everything is done on the rebuilds on both carbs except this one float bowl. just want to get this thing done so i can get it out of my driveway!

i'm sure this has been beat to death but i'm new to the z forum. i'm working on a friends '72 240 and rebuilding the carbs. they are the hitatchi w46's. the question i have is about the needle and seat for the float bowl. the carbs had two different types. one was kind of short with a needle and a spring loaded insert. the other was longer but the needle had a solid pin which the float pushed up on. the carb kits i got from checker have two different part numbers but exactly the same parts in them(?). can i use the same needle and seat in both float bowls? why is one different from the other? is this a factory deal or sign these carbs have been screwed with before? without you guys writing endless paragraphs repeating stuff you've already said, point me to some archive articles or threads or links that might break this down for me. also, i need a link on how to balance these things. any other pointers for a first-timer working on these things?