Honda Wiper Motor Upgrade for the 240Z

[Zs-ondabrain]

Tired of the old SLOW and Tired wipers on your 240Z? Ya, Me too. SO I did some research on the subject over at HybridZ and found that for a few years now, people have been trying to use the 94' Accord and 91' Civic wiper motors as a replacement to the Datsun wiper motor that ONLY like to move if the window is WET...

So I read every thread and post on the subject to find out as much as possible. All I found was pictures and posts by people saying that "it works great BUT..... The wiper does'nt PARK when you turn the switch to OFF. You have to shut the wiper switch off at the EXACT moment to get the blades to sit in the usual DOWN position.

So I went to the junk yard and pulled a 91' Honda Civic wiper motor, brought it home and tore the gear/contact cover off to find what made it click and Also to find why nobody, after 4 years, could get the wiper to "PARK" I wrote everything down that I saw, put it back together and studied the their wiring diagrams and my diagrams.

So I wire up the wiper the way everyone else had been doing it for a few years and started tesing each and every wire. I discovered what they had missed and decided to wire up a relay, the way I thought it should be, to get the wipers to "PARK" and then gave it some power. Slow speed worked great, high speed worked even better. So I kicked it back down to slow then crossed my fingers and turn the switch off. It spun a little before the relay kicked in, then it finished it's rotation and stopped exactly where it should have.

So I did it a bunch of times and it stopped in the exact same spot every time. So in other words, I seem to have fixed the problem that plagued people who have done the conversion before.

Below is everything you'll need to know about putting in a 91' Honda Civic wiper motor into your 240Z. I've done the conversion and it's FRICKEN AWESOME!!! The first time I tried the wipers was in my garage on a DRY window with NEW wiper blades. I made a video of it for any unbelievers and also to show how the OFF position Parks the blades at the end of the rotation.

So here's some more good news, the Datsun wiper motor mounting screws work on the Honda motor AND the Datsun wiper arm bracket will slide right onto the Honda motor shaft without modification. When you go to the Pull-A-Part, SAVE THE BOLTS and the NUT & WASHER. If you buy the motor at the Auto Parts Store, it will NOT normally come with bolts or the bracket mounting nut.

Here is the Short list of needed items.......

1) 91' Honda wiper motor (make sure to unplug the motor and also remove the female end from the honda with at least 6 to 8 inches of wire past the female plug, you'll need the female end if you wanna make a custom adaptor type harness) I paid $6.50 at the local Pull-A-Part, Schucks Auto Supply wanted about $100. Go Used.

1) 20/30 amp 12 volt relay from the auto parts store (usually about $5.00)

1) 6-terminal Datsun Plug (exactly like the one on your Datsun wiper motor, or Voltage regulator or pre 3/73' Combo switch on the harness side. I sell these and the terminals if you would like to make a brand new adaptor for your conversion

The other possibility is to Cut off your plug and wires from your Datsun Wiper motor, it's up to you. You can even Hard wire the Honda motor in if you'd like.

70' Datsun 240Z __________________ 91' Honda civic wiper motor

blue/white-------pin 86 ________ Pin 87A-------blue/white

blue-------------pin 87 ________ pin 30--------blue

Blue/red-----------pin 85-------pin 85----------green/black

Black----------------------to------------------black

Blue/yellow----------------to-------------------blue/yellow

________________________________________________________

Here are the pics for drilling the Datsun wiper Plate, notching the plate to seat the Honda motor correctly, and that's it. 5 small cuts, 3 small holes.

If you have any questions and don't mind reading alot more, check out this link for every single detail. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=82292

After the New Honda Motor is installed in your Z, turn the wipers on once or twice to 1) Make sure the motor is working correctly and running and 2) to Park the wiper studs in the right position before installing the wiper blades.

Feel free to ask questions here, post results, share added info (other years and models of Honda wiper motors that are identical etc.)

Dave.

Datsun to Honda wiper diagram.bmp

This post has been promoted to an article
Edited May 23, 2011 by Arne
fixed typo in terminal list

[TomoHawk]

Do you think this would work on a 280Z? I have mine out right now.

[Goose52]

I was following this over at HydridZ - very cool. Congrats on cracking this nut after so many years of people playing with it.

Now, are you giving any consideration to creating another finely crafted conversion kit for the electrical portion (the relay, box, and plugs that would insert between the Honda motor connector and the Datsun plug) ? Can you source the Honda plug ??

[Pop's Z]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Dave, you are Da' MAN!!!!!!!!!!

Happy wiping, Mike

[kenz240z]

Dave, thanks for the excellent information!

[[email protected]]

Dave, I think I'm going to do this upgrade and write about it in my 240Z project article. I will make sure to give you credit along with Michael Williams combo switch repair write-up that I plan to talk about as well. I wanted to get the combo switch in the Fall 07 issue but ran out of room so I will piggy back it with your wiper motor upgrade in the Spring 08 issue.

Just a heads up, thanks

Art

[barth4567]

I've said it before' date=' and I'll say it again...Dave, you are Da' MAN!!!!!!!!!!

Happy wiping, Mike[/quote']

Yeah, Look what Santa Dave brought us for Christmas.:classic:

[Zs-ondabrain]

Do you think this would work on a 280Z? I have mine out right now.

I believe it will but I'd check wire colors and mounting plate for comparison. Check the above link to the forum on Hybrid for a little more clarity, lots of 280Z's over there and I'm sure someone has done one in a 280Z.

Dave, thanks for the excellent information!

You're quite welcome Ken, let us know when ya do and post your results.

Thanks Mike, (Pop's Z)

Now, are you giving any consideration to creating another finely crafted conversion kit for the electrical portion (the relay, box, and plugs that would insert between the Honda motor connector and the Datsun plug) ? Can you source the Honda plug ??

I'm already looking into it, I have access to the black box's, relays, and Datsun Plug and colored wires but I've yet to find a source for the Honda plug, other than the junk yard or Pull-A-Part.

If I were to make a harness with the Datsun plug - black project box - wires and Butt connectors for the buyer to easily "Crimp" the adaptor harness to the connectorless Honda wiper motor harness, it would be a breeze to make and I'd have to charge at least $35 for the adaptor harness (without the Honda plug. I would also do my best to find a firewall boot to keep it looking stock or at least clean up the hole.

ART....

If you need any other info, keep your eye on this forum and the one over at HybridZ (mentioned above)

BARTH45657....

HO-HO-HO but seriously, I weigh about 130 on a good day so I'm too damn small to be Santa, But I appreciate the metaphor.

Dave.

[280~Master]

Sounds great but I thought about trying this with a 240sx wiper motor. Should cut out the cutting of the wiper motor shaft and its also a Nissan part for my Nissan/Datsun car. Just my 2 cents

[Zs-ondabrain]

Sounds great but I thought about trying this with a 240sx wiper motor. Should cut out the cutting of the wiper motor shaft and its also a Nissan part for my Nissan/Datsun car. Just my 2 cents

You don't have to cut at the shaft on the 91' Honda Civic wiper motor. It's shaped the same as the Datsun motor shaft (slice from each side of the shaft with the nut grabbing 1/3 of the shaft)

That's why I chose the 91' motor instead of the 94' Accord, you have to cut the 94' shaft and it's much bigger (10+mm i think)

Dave.

This is the adaptor I made for mine, I actually built 2 of them, one for mine and one for sale. But it has the Honda plug that mates to the Honda wiper motor so you MUST have the plug still on your Honda wiper motor. $35

[mars23z]

Is a 91 Honda the only year ? I have an 86 and 89 acoord would those work? Thanks Chris

[Zs-ondabrain]

Is a 91 Honda the only year ? I have an 86 and 89 acoord would those work? Thanks Chris

That's what I'm trying to find out. Look at the motor and compare it to the mounting chassic and the wires. If they are the same wires, mounts and shaft then YES, it'll work.

Just use some (Female quick disconnect) connectors to jump your Datsun plug into the honda wires and test it out. that's the easiest way to find out and also what I did the first time. I wasn't about to cut into my harness to find out if it worked or not.

Try the 89' first.

Dave.

[74260zt]

I'll take that 2nd box, if still avail.

[biddljj]

I second it... you da man thanks

It's off to the junk yards after xmas

[280~Master]

Looks good. You have taken some time out to make sure you did it right nice job. I have got to get this done on my 280Z.

[Zs-ondabrain]

If you get it to work in the 280, post the results and findings and any changes compared to the 240Z upgrade.

As for the second harness that is available. You'd need a honda motor with a long harness attached to the motor. I will be making these to each persons specs, (with or without Datsun plug, with or without Honda plug, length of wires per side) and they will start at $35.00

if you're interested, DO NOT request here on this forum, but rather via PM or my email below, in my signiture. I'm trying to keep my word with Mike and not get called a spammer again. Even though the full description and diagrams are here and can easily be done by Z car owners, I will make them for those not up to the challenge of "Do It Yourself"

Dave.

[Zs-ondabrain]

Just a quick update, I just did a 94 Accord motor into a 72' 240Z. The problem with the 94 is not wiring or mounting but rather the shaft has to be ground down to fit the keyhole shape of the 240Z's wiper linkage.

The problem with this is the way the linkage works, it has to be cut at an exact angle. I drew on a pic of the 94 so you can see what I mean. If you set the motor on it's end, with the gears pointing up, the motor needs to ran and use my harness to get the motor to PARK, then mark a line from the upper right mount to the center of the motors shaft.

That is the angle that it needs to be cut at. Remove a little material at a time, test fit on the wiper linkage, remove a little more, etc, etc. remove material 9/16" down the shaft. This will give enough room for the linkage, lock washer, and the nut.

Once again, the 91' civic is ALREADY cut at this angle and will slide into the Datsun wiper linkage with NO alteration And that's why I chose the 91 instead of the 94. The 94 Accord will work as well but need modification at an exact angle.

Dave.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Dave / everyone:

Great article and greatly appreciated I'm sure. Nonetheless, I have some questions in my mind... call it curiosity really.

First:

I do not remember the wipers being any problem at all when the 240-Z's were new. Yes they could have had a faster speed.... but they would run on a dry windshield no problem.

On most of the Z's I've worked on - with 30+ years of age and wear - it's not the motor that is slowing down, it is the linkage pivot points that become corroded, the grease that drys out and hardens etc. In which case, you have to take the linkage apart, de-corrode the stub axles/hubs (so to speak), re-lubricate them. In some cases the corrosion has destroyed the metal, and they have to be replaced. I suppose the gear drive mechanism itself suffers from the same causes.

By making the Honda Motor swap - - - are you simply using brute force to overcome the real problem of sticky/corroded pivot points in the linkage/wiper drive shafts?

Second:

Is the 91 Honda "Motor" really that much stronger/more powerful than the original Datsun Motor - - OR - - is the gearing on the drive mechanism the reason for the better performance on the Honda? (ie. gear reduction starters or more modern magnets in the motors themselves).

Do you know how many amps each motor draws?

Third:

If the 91 Honda Motor Assembly uses the same output shaft - - - would it be possible to simply swap only the motor (wondering if the motor has the same input shaft???) .... That is to say take only the electric motor from the Honda and adapt it to the Datsun gear drive and wiring?

Like I said - just curious....

FWIW,

Carl B.

[TomoHawk]

I'll be taking my drive unit apart soon, so I'll keep some notes on what I find.

What is involved in getting the Honda motor off the car? You canprobably get at it just by lifting the bonnet, right?

thxZ

[Zs-ondabrain]

Hi Dave / everyone:

Great article and greatly appreciated I'm sure. Nonetheless, I have some questions in my mind... call it curiosity really.

First:

I do not remember the wipers being any problem at all when the 240-Z's were new. Yes they could have had a faster speed.... but they would run on a dry windshield no problem.

On most of the Z's I've worked on - with 30+ years of age and wear - it's not the motor that is slowing down, it is the linkage pivot points that become corroded, the grease that drys out and hardens etc. In which case, you have to take the linkage apart, de-corrode the stub axles/hubs (so to speak), re-lubricate them. In some cases the corrosion has destroyed the metal, and they have to be replaced. I suppose the gear drive mechanism itself suffers from the same causes.

By making the Honda Motor swap - - - are you simply using brute force to overcome the real problem of sticky/corroded pivot points in the linkage/wiper drive shafts?

Second:

Is the 91 Honda "Motor" really that much stronger/more powerful than the original Datsun Motor - - OR - - is the gearing on the drive mechanism the reason for the better performance on the Honda? (ie. gear reduction starters or more modern magnets in the motors themselves).

Do you know how many amps each motor draws?

Third:

If the 91 Honda Motor Assembly uses the same output shaft - - - would it be possible to simply swap only the motor (wondering if the motor has the same input shaft???) .... That is to say take only the electric motor from the Honda and adapt it to the Datsun gear drive and wiring?

Like I said - just curious....

FWIW,

Carl B.

On the 1st,

As usual, you are correct in the fact that 27 years ago, my wipers slid across a dry window without fail. When I tore mine apart 4 years ago, I completely rebuilt the linkage by using degreasers and other grease and gunk removing chemicals to make sure there was a blank canvas to start rebuilding. I regrease with a white lithium cause it's light weight, sprays into all crevises and waterproof. Everything moved like a hot knife thru butter.

I then completely rebuilt the motor and tranny by once again removing every bit of old grease and gunk that could possibly hinder performance or movement. Every contact was cleaned, every gear regreased, every contact rebent or fixed fixed for optimum performance. So after COMPLETELY rebuilding everything in the wiper system, it moved nicer, quieter, and stronger. BUT, not strong enough.

I ran a NEW power and ground directly from the battery, and ran thru the speeds using good grounds and tested all movement compared to stock wiring. The change was little if any. So in final, The combination of 33 years (at the time) old gearing technology and old old wiring, the facts are as simple as this.... The 16 year old Honda motor has experience on it's side, a better wound motor, more torque and less ampearge use.

on the 2nd,

Yes, it is that much stronger/ more powerful. And yes, the Honda motor (in my experience and opinion) has better gearing and motor performance due to years of experience. I do not personally know the Amperage draw of each motor (Honda/Datsun) but I CAN tell you that the wiper related wires do NOT get as hot, as quick, with the Honda motor in , as compared to the datsun Motor. Fact. SO that tells me that the Honda draws less amperage than the Datsun motor.

On the third, (3.1)

The shaft of the Honda motor is similar but not Identical. It's a little smaller in diameter and width, but still slides into the Datsun arm with little play. Part 3.2....The motors and transmissions are NOT interchangable. The Honda motor is smaller and its main shaft is also a different diameter and won't interchange with the datsun drive gear.

So in final, The Honda motor is just plain better, better use of gearing, better use of power and amperage, not as old and worn due to twice as many years on the job like the Datsun Motor. Just like any upgrade, it's done because of wanting something better, newer or up to date technology, etc. The upgrade is only for those who want to spend 1 hour upgrading their wipers to a more modern approach or solution. But if they wanna completely rebuild their OEM equipment and find a small improvement, that's totally up to them. It's all about personal choice.

I'll be taking my drive unit apart soon' date=' so I'll keep some notes on what I find.

What is involved in getting the Honda motor off the car? You canprobably get at it just by lifting the bonnet, right? [/quote']

There are only a few 10mm bolts holding the wiper assembly onto the Honda Civic, then 3) 10mm bolts holding the motor to the wiper assembly, and one 12mm nut holding the linkage arm to the motor. Make sure to KEEP the 3) 10mm bolts and the washer and 12mm nut, as you will need them on your conversion. Also, unplug the motor and cut 6" of wire on the male plug (coming from the engine harness on the Civic) and remove the male plug with it's 6" of wire for use on your conversion in your Z. DO NOT cut the female plug from the motor, only the male plug from the civic.

DAve.

[dogma420]

It should also be noted that the issues we've all had with very slow windshield wipers--

When I replaced the stalks hardward (the part that goes through the cowl that the arms attach to--the motion was just like this new Civic setup--so my wipers now act much more like any other car.

so I believe that most of the slow down is caused by rusty/non greased wiper stalks in the first place.

I found almost new 280z wiper linkage that came with the wiper mount stalks, and this did the trick for me.

[Zs-ondabrain]

So I had some time and found my wiper delay unit from years ago, that never got installed. Now that I figured out the whole relay for the park circuit thing, I attempted to install the Delay unit, with success.

So here are three wiring diagrams for the HELLA delay unit (HL87200) , AQUUS 9030 delay unit (I think I got it from Schucks Auto Supply), and a universal drawing for other makes of delay units. On the instructions for your particular delay unit, it should show you which wires are (COM) (N/O) and (N/C). These wires are pointed out on the Universal drawing. (COM) to the motor, (N/C) to the switch, and (N/O) to the Park wire (Blue/white wire) If that not park it correctly, use an IN4001 diode from the Blue Datsun wire to the Blue/white "Park" wire, with the stripe on the diode facing the blue (low speed) wire. And cut the (N/O) wire and tape it off.

If you have any questions regarding the delay unit into your 240Z with the 91' Honda Civic or 94 Accord wiper motor upgrade with my Park relay, please PM me here or at my email address below.

Dave.

EQUUS 9030 wiper delay full diagram under 1mb.bmp

Universal delay diagram with switch and relay under 1mb.bmp

HELLA wiper delay unit into 240Z with Honda under 1mb.bmp

[ezzzzzzz]

I spent the better part of 4 hours at the local P-N-P yesterday. I looked at every Honda is the joint. These ranged from mid 80's up to 97 and covered Accords, Civics and Preludes (even a few Accuras too). Every Civic (91 and surrounding years) had some funky cast motor housing with four legs offset at odd angles. Only the Accords/Preludes/Accuras had the 3 bolt flat pattern desired. Of course, only the Civics had the smaller double flat shaft. I guess modifying the larger shaft is my only alternative. That's the wiper motor I pulled. Maybe there is a particular build date that the proper motor comes in? I'm not complaining but merely pointing out my personal experience. I'm only doing this for fun anyhow. My Z never sees rain but only the occasional bath.

[Zs-ondabrain]

I had to HUNT as well. Kept finding those "Spider legged" motors. Takes some time to find the right ones. I think I'll make an extra trip to the Pull a Part just to do research on the motors and what cars they are available in.

*UPDATE* on the Delay unit instal. Good News!! It turns out that when you instal the honda wiper motor and MY relay set-up to allow the Motor to "Park", the delay unit only needs to put out a 1 second ground to the blue/white wire.

Delay units already put out a timed 1 second pulse, The instructions call for you to "CUT the Low speed wire, put the COM wire towards the motor and the N/C wire to the switch side of the cut wire" BUT...... it turns out that the way I designed the relay set-up will allow a simple 1 second grounding of the Park wire to give an intermittent wipe. Vholaa, intermittent wipers.

Most or Every delay unit that I've come across is huge or at the very least, a severely ugly hunk of plastic to try and find a place for in the Z, that allows access for the driver to operate the delay unit. And now the GOOD NEWS!....

Good news is that the delay unit can be turned on and set for a specific timing (2 to 20 wipes per minute) then tucked under the dash, out of site. THEN run the power wire of the delay unit thru a small 12 volt switch and back to the ACC. wire on the ignition, and install the small switch within reach of the driver.

When you flip the switch on, there may be a slight delay of up to 5 seconds but it'll do 1 wipe and set back to park, then wipe according to your setting of the delay switch.. Pretty damn cool. HUH? Just remember to shut the switch off before normal operation of the wipers (Low or Hi)

Dave.

[xray]

Dave, ezzzzzz

Would you mind posting some pics of the correct (and incorrect, particularly vis a vis the output shaft and the "spider legged") motors so those of us off to hunt the local JY will have a field guide of what works?

Thanks,

Steve