Carl Beck

I don't ever remember receiving "just plain steel" bolts, screws, nuts or washers - when I ordered OEM Nissan parts. They have always been either zinc or Cad. plated from Nissan. Both zinc and cad. plating are sacrifice coatings - meanin that they are sacrificed in order to save the original metal and it's strength. After 30+ years you can or should expect the plating on all the fasteners to have seriously degraded. Once you clean them up - all the original plating is GONE - and if you don't paint or re-plate them at that point - they will form rust quickly. FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://Zhome.com

Am I thinking of this correctly? When I think of a "taller gear" - I'm thinking of lower numerical ratio.... ie. a 3.364:1 is a taller gear than a 3.7:1 - right? If so - then the 81/83 transmission has a 0.745:1 fifth gear, and the 80 transmission has 0.773:1 fifth gear. So fifth gear in the 80 transmission is NOT taller than the 81/83. I'd leave the stock 3.364 in the car if you like lower rev.'s and better highway fuel mileage, or put the 3.545 R180 out of the 80ZX in.... for a little better off the line performance and still acceptable highway mileage. FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Visit the Z Car Home Page at: http://ZHome.com For example: <a href=http://zhome.com/Classic/CommonZRust/RustPrevention240Z.htm TARGET=NEW>Common Rust Area's of The 240-Z </a> FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Sad - it is water under the bridge at this point - however for the benefit of others that might have the misfortune to follow ... iMHO you made two serious errors here: 1) the CA Bureau of Automotive Repair recommended that you go to the shop and DEMAND your Car - you did not do as they directed; rather you keep insisting on a completion date...da.... 2) You have dealt with this person for 11 months - knowing how he acts, I believe any reasonable person would have a) contacted the Police FIRST and ask that an officer accompany you to the shop - per the CA BAR's directions and had your Attorney accompany you and the Police Officer to the shop... I truly belive that if you had your attorney with you - and had you demanded the return of your car - you would have been taking it home, instead of getting the legal run-around from Cops that don't know the law, nor care about your rights. In effect - the cop that showed up didn't want to get involved, because he wasn't sure what the law was - and he brushed the situation off to someone else or some civil action.... Had your attorney been present to inform the Police Office as to what the law was - and as an officer of the court demanded the Police Officer do his duty... your car would be home and you would be done with the situation. OK - so what to do now. Call a Lawyer... he will call the Sheriff's office and rent a deputy.. then go with you to shop and get your car. If the lawyer you call doesn't suggest that course of action - ask him for another lawyers name - one that likes to fight for their clients... Just my opinion... Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

See the Z Car Home Page of course: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/SpindlePinTool.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/SpindlePinTool.htm</a> FWIW Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi RAZ1: I don't think Steve has proven Mark wrong - so much as he has had fun building a conversation piece. Getting a 3 SU set-up to work with an in-line six isn't all that difficult, indeed it was standard on some of the earlier Jags. for a brief period. Getting it to work better than, and/or add performance to, was the real question. Jag dropped the 3 SU set up because it didn't work better and it did add a level of difficulty to the tuning process. The problem with the triple SU set-up had to do with maintaining an even flow of air/fuel mix to each cylinder, as it was needed through the intake runners. Because of the firing order and timing of intake valve opening/closings.. the two SU set up does a better job than the three SU set up. Because the stock two SU's will supply all the air/fuel that an L24/L28 can use - adding the third SU really adds nothing. The triple Side Drafts, give you the ability to tune each cylinder individually and feed all equal amounts of air/fuel mix... without the conflicting intake pulses present in the triple SU set up. Mark explained it this way: With the dual SU manifold the air / fuel distribution is poor because the runner lengths are different. Datsun worked their butts off to try and compensate for this and really did a pretty good job (you should see how bad some of the British stuff is). The advantage of the dual manifold is that the pulsations come in even periods. Let me try to put this visually; 1---\ \ 2------- 103020103020 / 3---/ A "0" represents a "dead" time slice, a time when none of the cylinders fed by this manifold are in the intake phase. Any other number indicates the cylinder which is in the intake phase. 4---\ \ 5------- 050604050604 / 6---/ As you can see the pulse pattern is very even, being one time slice on, then one time slice off. This means that each cylinder is pulling on a column of air/fuel (what is contained in the manifold) with about the same velocity, because each cylinder is preceded by the same length of "dead" time in the manifold. This promotes all sorts of positive effects, and keeps air speed in the manifolds fairly constant. It limits the amount of "flow reversal" that can take place by limiting the length of "dead time" in each manifold. These effects are mitigated to some degree by the differences in individual runner lengths and by the distances from the main plenum of each manifold to each intake valve. But all in all this manifold and firing order do work fairly well together. Now here is the pattern for a triple SU set up; 1--\ --- 100020100020 2--/ 3--\ --- 003004003004 4--/ 5--\ --- 050600050600 6--/ You can see from this that the front and rear manifolds have uneven pulsations. 3 time slices off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on. This means that the cylinder that opens after the 3-time-slices-off "dead" period, will be pulling on a much slower column of air/fuel than the other cylinder will. This will cause those cylinders (#'s 2 & 5) to run a little leaner and their counterparts (#'s 1 & 6) to run a little richer. The reason for this is that air reacts to changes in velocity more quickly than the fuel does. Since the air/fuel mix in the manifold has 3 time slices to slow down before cylinders 2 & 5 draw on it, it will be slower for them and as it tries to speed up again, the air will respond more quickly and get to the cylinder slightly sooner that the fuel. By then the intake stroke for these cylinders will be ending, the extra fuel meant for these cylinders will stack up in the manifold and then cylinders 1 & 6 will open. They will be opening to a fast moving, extra rich, mixture. (On some 4 cyl motors this phenomenon is so bad that the engine idles on only two of the cylinders if the mixture is not within range). The center manifold is different, however, its pulsation pattern is even, with 2 off time slices followed by 1 on time slice. each cylinder will be pulling on a column of air/fuel with about the same velocity, but thatvelocity will be fairly low due to the fact that twice as much time is spent "off" as is spent "on". So the triple SU manifolding has three basic problems; First, the pulsing patterns are not the same for all manifolds and, Second, the outer manifolds will have distribution problems caused by uneven pulse patterns and, Third, the center manifold will suffer from reduced velocity. The third problem is the least important of the three and is true for triple Mikuni's as well (in fact they suffer from a 5:1, off to on, ratio). I would not be concerned about this except as it relates to the behavior of the outer manifolds. The solution for the outer manifold's distribution problems is probably going to be similar to what was done for the British 4 cyl, siamesed engines. The runners of the manifold were "aimed" at the lean running cylinders slightly. This helped to overcome the distribution bias that was created by the uneven pulsing. I am not sure how well this would work on the Z motor, but on MGB's it helped quite a bit. It didn't eliminate the problem, but it did significantly reduce it. The last problem, that of the manifolds not all having the samepulse patterns is not soluble except by altering the firing order. But by ameliorating the negative effects of this, we can to some degree cancel the problem out. If the manifolding is done well it will be equal to, or slightly better than the stock manifold for distribution, but will increase flow. If runner and plenum size is kept small enough to keep air velocities up, the drivability and throttle response should be better than a dual set up. Anyway, there's something for all you triple SU freaks to chew on for a while. You could solve all these problems by going to 6 of the 1.25" (32mm) SU's you know. :-) - - - - - end quote from Mark - - - - - FWIW, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Jon (everyone) Keith Thomas said that when they put the L24's on the dyno - they found that they lost HP with timing advanced much past 32/33 degrees total. They'll take 35/36 but it wasn't the best HP producer... Lets all keep in mind that it isn't just total advance that you want to control - it's the total timing curve over the RPM range... which in many cases means you start with the timing curve dialed into the distributor... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: I'll be leaving Clearwater around 2:00AM Friday morning...and should get to the Atlanta area sometime before noon Friday. I'll be stopping by Sunbelt/Balanced Performance to have the tranny in my Z swapped with a rebuilt... and should get to Road Atlanta Friday afternoon.. The Georgia Z Car will have a coral set up in the in-field.. gather Z's there and we can all meet up. I'll be driving my white 72... see ya there... Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Just a comment.. If I'm following this correctly - TBK1 has a 77 280Z with the L26. Glenn72 has a 72 240-Z with an L28. The tach's in the 70-73 240-Z's function via an inductive loop, but the tach's in the 280Z's use a negative coil trigger. So the tach hook-up's will be different between the two... I think that the 240-Z's were equipped with an Amp Meter - and the 280Z's used a Volt Meter. Glenn72 what coil are you using? What advance position, do you have your distributor set too? That is to say what is the timing curve your trying to use?... regards, Carl B.

What specific wheels do you have? Brand and Model ? Do you have a picture? Carl B.

Carl B. Hi Mike (everyone): I'm not sure I understand that statement - "where cars as at least twice the U.S.". The car sold - sold for the same amount $5888.00 USD. Here or there it was the same price. If anything the car sold well below the market here in Florida, where a Left Hand Drive model in that condition would sell pretty quickly for around $8,500.00 to $12,000.00 (depending on a number of quality issues etc). I would have expected that car to sell for closer to $8K USD in Australia given other sales reports over the past few years. Let's say a new 350Z is $35K USD here - it's about the same in Australia isn't it? Carl B. Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Red Line is a company "Water Wetter" is one of their products It's actually a surfactant that reduces the surface tension of water. Reduced surface tension results in smaller air bubbles forming in your cooling system, which results in more of the water coming in contact with both the metal heating and cooling surfaces in your engine. Your coolant needs to come into contact with the metal coolant passages of your block to take on heat, then it needs to come into contact with the metal cooling passages within your radiator to pass off that heat. The more efficiently the coolant stays in contact with both metal surfaces.. the heat it can carry away from the block and the more heat it can radiate to the atmosphere through your radiator. It can be used with plain water or mixed with permanent antifreeze/coolant. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Glenn: See the instructions on the Z Car Home Page. <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/MalloryDist.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/MalloryDist.htm</a> On my 72 I needed to add a second balest resister to get the tach to work correctly... FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Fresh battery - daylight - 10-24 miles round trip - should be no problem... as far as having enough energy in the battery to run the engine.... Don't know if there is anything in the 280z electronics that would be effected... I lost an alt.belt in the mountains.. drove well over a hundred miles during the day - but that was a 240-Z, with no electric fuel pumps nor F.I.... none the less - 24 miles round trip - especially if you hook up a charger at the garage while your there.. Carl

If the engine has had good care - 143K miles is nothing on an L24. I use Mobile 1 synthetic, because it lowered my engine temp.'s by about 12 degrees F. Then in the Summer months I use water plus Red Line Water-Wetter... that dropped the temp.'s another 10 degrees... between the two the temp gauge stays in the middle now - where it used to approach over heating on days of 90+ degrees F. Change one thing at a time and see what effect it has on your normal engine operation temp. ranges. FWIW, Carl Clearwater, Florida..

Hi Ed: Didn't we just see a thread somewhere where the person was restoring a 240-Z that he got from his Father-in-law??? hummm...... We better watch pretty closely just who our daughter are associating with.... ;-) See: <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21248 TARGET=NEW>http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21248</a> I have a son 36 and another 32 and my daughter will be 12 this year.... regards, Carl B.

Hi deadflo (everyone): Some terms... my definitions, to understand my statements, in this discussion. "Value" - a personal judgment that usually trades price against quality and utility etc. The value I place on any of my Z's may or may not line up with the price for which it can be bought. "Market Value" - the price "in general" that a larger number of buyers/sells would seem to place on cars given the same trade off of price vs quality... "Worth" - the price point that at any given single point in time - a knowledgeable buyer and seller agree to a transaction. You ask; "Have the values gone up that much in the last two years". I would say that on a National basis - YES - the Market Values have gone up that much in the last two years. For example we just saw a very very nice, mostly original Z with 80K miles sell on e-bay for $20K.... two years ago I doubt anyone would have been willing to pay half that amount. That same car, advertised locally - we few people responding to the ad - might have resulted in a sale at closer to $8K... There is a huge difference in supply/demand on a national basis vs different parts of the country. We are seeing more and more serious buyers enter the 240-Z market at this year, than we did just a few years ago - this is normal for all Classic Collectible and Special Interest automobiles by the way. Witin the last two years for example I have personally seen/ been involved in: - the First 280Z that I've seen trade hands at $40K {two years ago this car couldn't be sold for $30K} - the First purely original, very low mileage 240-Z trade hands at $30K {two years ago this car sold for $11,500} - the First purely original higher mileage 240-Z trade hands above $25K {two years ago a car almost identical to this one sold for $16K} The original owner 72 240-Z that I over-paid $4,500.00 for five years ago - will this year cost at least $8,500.00 to $10,000.00. Keep in mind that any car on the West Coast - will cost the buyer an additional $2,000.00 just to have it shipped back East... You might be able to find a replacement for your Z in Washington for $6K, but it would most likely cost me $8K to $10K to find that car in the first place, then to have it shipped here.. So I would have to carry an Agreed Value of $8K to $10K to replace it here in Florida. What I expect to see in the next two years is: - the true #1 and #2 Collector Quality 240-Z's that were trading hands in the $18K to $23K range these past three or four years - will all be gone. The more average price for them will be in the $25K to $35K range when one comes on the market.. but for the most part the owner that have them now - will keep them for a long time if possible. - the true #3 cars - that would win most local Z Car shows.. are very solid, rust free, beautiful to look at (if your are not a Concours Judge with a scoring sheet in hand).... that were trading in the $6,500.00 to $8,500.00 range two to four years ago - will all be in the $14K to $18K range - and if the buyer is hot enough and the car is RIGHT - he'll pay a premium over those numbers... aka that $20K 240-Z with 80K miles!! - the #4 cars - that most of us would buy today - if they are cheap enough... and if they are solid enough.. for $3,500.00 to $6,500.00..... They will still be in the $5K to $7K range - because they would need complete refresh or restorations costing an addition $15K to $20K... plus year or so of work - to get them into the #2 or #3 condition... All the above apply to normal production cars... Special Interest examples within the 240-Z class - such as the Vintage Z's, the 69 production year examples, the historic race/rally cars etc - - the sky is the limit... The bottom line is this - if believe that you can replace your 240-Z for $6K... start today and go look at the cars advertised... look them over carefully... and look for the next six months like your life depended on it - if you find one that would actually replace your Z for $6K -BUY IT!! if you find 2 BUY THEM BOTH... FWIW, Carl

Hi Jeff: I believe that the Hagerty does offer a Policy that allows for limited track days at this point... but will not cover damage received on-track of course.... You need to call Bob and talk to him about that. In general "Classic Cars" are painted... and in very presentable condition. Not to be unkind in any way but they may not view a race car in primer as meeting the definitions of the cars they insure. When do you plan on having it painted? You usually do not need an appraisal, the people at the Hagerty have a pretty good knowledge of the Classic Z Cars market values based on the condition of the car - but they do require you to send photo's of the car showing all sides etc and they can be digital images e-mailed to them .... Maybe you'll have to be willing to start with a relatively low Agreed Value ($5K), then request an increase once you can send pictures of it finished. Just a comment on "value". How much, or how little, money anyone has spent on their Z's - has no bearing on the market or replacement value of the car. If one lucks out and picks up a Z well worth $15K on the open market, but only had to actually pay $5K... the Agreed Value of the car should still be set at $15K. On the other hand, if you have put $35K into the car, and it would only bring $16K on the open market.. then the Agreed Value would still be sat at $16K. The Underwriters do not allow the insurance companies to "over insure" any cars. In the past all too many of the cars "over insured" somehow got stolen, when they couldn't be sold at inflated prices... if you know what I mean. From an owners prospective - you don't want to pay the additional premiums for coverage over the replacement costs, most of the time you just want a value high enough to assure the car would be properly repaired in case of an accident So the question is - what would be a reasonable Market Value for your Z as it sits uncompleted now? Or what would a reasonable Market Value for your Z be when it's finished all bright and shinny? In primer you might have a hard time getting the underwriters to go anything over $5K on an Agreed Value basis. Finished, the car might well be worth three to four times that amount. As I said, just my understanding of the way it works... but you need to call Bob about the track days and the current state of the restoration process... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Chris: I noted that the seller said "matching chassis numbers".. how's that for weasel wording something... amazing... Carl B.

Hi Guys: First let me say that everyone who has applied any undercoating discussed and/or shown in this thread - has in my opinion done a very professional and good looking job. I have no personal heart burn with anyone/everyone doing what ever they believe is the best thing for them and their car. Nor in any way am I suggesting that anyone do anything based on what someone else may or may not think. I also state up front that on any 240-Z that's going the full custom route - it won't matter what is done. I realize that this discussion is in the "Modified Z's" subject area.. All that said - I feel that it should be stated, it should be at least considered... that at some point in the future an owner may want, or need, to become a seller. Sit two otherwise identical cars, both "restored" or "refreshed" to professional standards, side by side... put them up on a lift for complete inspection by a potential buyer.... and the car without any undercoating will most likely sell first, and sell for far more money. Why? 1. Because the Datsun 240-Z's, if they had any undercoating at all - had a very limited amount, sprayed in very limited areas by the factory. Buyers willing to pay the highest prices for the best cars want them to be as close to factory original as possible. The undercoatings sprayed by the factory were of the rubberized types, and were over-sprayed with the original body color. 2. Thick undercoating - by and large - are all too often used to cover poor metal work, or sloppy fiberglass and bondo jobs... no matter how neat, it just turns prospective buyers of Classic Cars off. 3. From a restoration perspective.. and a preservation perspective a waterproof undercoating can hid for too long, rust that is attacking the metal on top of what it covers on the underside,... just as the tar mats hold moisture and allow rust to form under them from the inside, while hiding it from plain view. Personally, if I had the entire undercarriage on a 240-Z stripped to bare metal - I'd POR-15 it.. then I'd replace the paintable rubberized undercoating, in the places it originally was... and lastly I'd spray the entire undercarriage body color. As I said above - just something that should be considered on an individual basis by anyone going to the extent of a bare metal undercarriage... refresh or restore. FWIW, Carl B.

Every one I have ever seen here in the US and Canada, when the cars were new, or ordered over the Parts Counters were silver. <a href=http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSplashPan1.jpg TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSplashPan1.jpg</A> FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Randy: Looks like a beautiful example. How lucky can you be?? ;-) With only 24K miles I wouldn't seen any need to send them to Z Therapy - just pull the tops off and clean them out. Unless the Cad Plating on the hardware has gone bad - but even then, I believe that you can just replace the Cad Plated hardware with parts from ZP. The carb.'s certainly shouldn't need to be re-bushed at this point. Agreed - also while the tank is off - don't forget to clean the fuel lines out..you can pour some carb cleaner into the lines from the front of the car, and in a few minutes blow it out with a little compressed air. It should be a real pleasure working on a Z like the one you have... take your time and enjoy every minute... I thought the Inland Empire was in Washington State??? regards, Carl B.

Kats needs the very early Bridgestone 175SR14 Super Speed 20's. This car more than likely had the 175HR RD-150's. FWIW, Carl B.

Quite a significant difference between the Seller's description and your survey. Are you sure you were in the right Town? ;-) Just too typical.... regards, Carl B.

Hello: A question or two.. Did you have this car advertised For Sale - in Oxford, PA? Can you tell me the original engine serial number? thanks, Carl B.