argniest

ahhhh man thanks so much for all this info!!! WOW. I really want to do this job myself if it is needed. I first want to remove the fuel sending unit in my 1978 (and the inspection plate too of course) and see if I can partially move the fuel sending unit a little out of my way (without disconnecting evyerthing). If I have to remove it, I will. But then I can inspect the tank. I have a nice remote inspection camera with a wireless monitor, so if I can get the fuel sending unit out carefully, I can hopefull see what kind of magnitude of crud is in there!!! Im hoping for a 1, but maybe it will be really bad 10 and full of tons of gunk. I have seen some of the pictures on this forum of what comes out of some of these tanks and it made me gasp for air. I hope mine isnt too bad. Although I do understand about sealing it with POR 15, if mine just was only a little dirty I would be OK to just power wash it out, a little muric acid or whatever is really safe...etc. And then put it back on. I mean as long as it looks clean after that, I would rather just put it back on that way. And some other time, do everything else. As far as hoses, thanks for the info on them! Im sorry if I didnt see it in the thread, but I would like to purchase all new hoses, just want to be 10000% sure I get the right brand size type. I am always nervous as hell to use any part. Im soooo new to all this stuff, I feel like an idiot.

I recently found zbarn.com website. Supposely they have 400 parts cars. Has anyone ever talked to them? I emailed them and called them, and no response. Just wondering....I thought it was too good to be true. Maybe they went out of business in 1999 but somone forgot to tell everyone.

Does anyone know what part number for the fuel filter he was talking about, for a clear fuel filter. I would like to buy one and put it on the car, so I can help determine how much junk is coming out of my fuel tank. Its pretty cold out here for a while, and I am not sure if I want to mess with the fuel tank quite yet. but If I could put a clear see through fuel filter on there, at least I could watch if a bunch of junk is truely headed from the tank or not!!?? Thanks

EDIT: hmmmm The little looped line??? Can you see it in the picture above? I want to make sure I use the correct one for testing. Thanks for info. Im very glad to hear I can check it, at that other location, without effecting the running of the car. Because I feel when putting it inline with the FPR vacuum line with a "T" connector that it may be effecting the engine. And that is because any number of issues, of which I am testing and looking into all kinds of things inthe weeks ahead. One step bit by bit....I know I will figure out how to make it run better. With all my new Z friends, and mechanics...and studying FSM and EFI bible. Its only a matter of time. The current consensus is that my fuel injectors are toast. But before I can or will, put in the new ones I have here, I will be investing the gas tank, then lucky me probably remove it, and either follow the POR 15 thread on this forum, to clean it, or have my relative clean it (he has done many before). After seeing how much junk was in my fuel filter!!! I need to see what I got going on back in the fuel tank. I hope this weekend to find out after I pull out the fuel sending unit. If its horrible, bad, not so bad, easy to fix...etc But I have a feeling after reading all kinds of posts on here, that its not going to be pretty. Especially considering the fuel filter clogged up bad. Oh well, back on topic...I will look for that spot you mentioned and hook up my hose there. I want a second reading in a second place, just so I can see and learn! This is all one big science experiment for the kid in me :-))))) And a very fun one to put it mildly!

Look at picture first, is there supposed vacuum in those two hoses, if so, how much vacuum, when at idle? This is on a 1978 280Z EDIT: I RTFM (again) and I think I am understanding that there is only vacuum in these lines under certain operating conditions, but probably not when cold and/or at idle. So where else can I attach a vacuum meter on the 1978 280z to take some readings. I already attached to hose coming from Fueal Pressure regulator. but I wanted to check like 2other places, just to compare vacuum pressure.

Well, I am sure I *CAN* do it, but can I do it right without causing untold damage. This baby is 33 years old and I have never done anything this serious to a car before. But I am willing to do it, and learn from it. At least after reading over lots of posts on this forum, reading the manual about this procedure (im still reviewing the POR 15 thread which has 51 pictures I think), and inspecting the car itself. It really does seem doable for a noob like me. I just have to be very careful about it, and make sure I know exactly where everything plugs back into. And be patient. I am sure that sucker is gonna be full of major goop, after seeing the fuel filter results. All that stuff is in the filter for a reason ya know... And I suppose I may need to replaces some of those hoses back there too related to the fuel tank. I wont know until I see all of them and can inspect them closely. And then I will have to figure out where to get good quality replacements. I dont know about that yet... Man it will be nice to have a clean tank someday....hopefully I can get this done in February and have it back on before end of the month. If things go well that is. I am almost sure that all that crud in the tank and filter, is contributing to my car not running as good as it can be.

Thanks for advice. I am also reading the thread with 51 pictures about using POR 15 I think it was, on refurbing the fuel tank. Im actually going to turn that thread into a mini how to, and print it off with all the pictures large sized so I can see them. It was great information. Although I think it was for a 1971, and I have a 1978. So I am sure things will be different. But it will teach me alot about what needs to be done, even if its not me doing the cleaning of the tank. And yup, I will have some help on hand when I goto do that fuel tank dropping process. I think I still have one more thread to read about removing tank.

could a noob do this job, or am I asking for BIG trouble. I mean while I have learned some things about my 1978 z car, this would be by far the biggest thing I have ever done to a car, much less my z car. However, I have been out there crawling around and looking at how the gas tank is installed, and all hoses on it, the brackets that hold it in place, the fuel pump connections, the fuel sending unit under the back floor panel, etc. And it does seem doable, as long as I remeber where everything goes back together...and I am very careful with everything. If you read my exploits on this forum lately, you will see that I just found an incredible amount of debris in my fuel filter that I took off last summertime (and I am also going to remove the current fuel filter, and I believe I will find the same amount of gunk in it). We have suspected a possible fuel tank corrosion problem, and now we have big time proof because of that fuel filter plugged up. So all that debirs makes me believe I have major corrosion problems in the gas tank. And so, it would be nice if I could just drain the tank, and remove it myself and bring it to my relative who has done the fuel tank cleaning many times before (he restores cars for a living for 25+ years). He is an hour away, and also if I jsut bring the tank, then my car wont have to sit outside. It could take him a few weeks at least to get around to it. He has a lot full of bmws, jags, mercedes that he is always working on. And I know in working with him on the datsun in 2009 and 2010 on all the mechanical stuff, it can be a lower priority for him. So I could avoid leaving my car sit outside for a minute, if I could just remove it myself. And thats a big IF!

Well, I cant say for sure (I wasnt keeping as good of records at first), if it ran better right after the first fuel filter change. Because I also changed the spark plugs and oil. And I know 1000% for sure it ran a lot better after those two things. But I cant say for sure if I changed the plugs/oil within 30 days of changing oil filter. And also around the time of the spark plug and oil change...the timing and air flow meter got tweaked by the local mechanic who was reviewing the engine for me (he also tweaked the timing a little bit and the AFM air bypass screw,and the idle)....and that included idling and driving it with the Innovate AFR meter on it. The car was like 5x better after those things were done in a matter of 24 hours. However, I know after all the reading and research and now testing things myself this winter, that I still have some issues to resolve. Well anyway, that was when I found out my plugs were getting fouled up (when I finally decided to look at them). Of course, I learned from that experience, rule#1 about how important the first thing you should do when troubleshooting an engine running problem is to 'read the plugs'. But hey, this is my learning car. So now I know :-) The thing is, was that I thought my relative who had been working on the car had changed that stuff, but since he wasnt really working on the engine, I realize now it didnt make sense for him to do it. Never assume anything about the car, if you can do it yourself and do it right, thats rule number 2.

I didnt replace injectors yet, because this fuel tank issue has always been in the back of my mind. I got such a long list of things I want to do, and learn about the car. And I was reviewing all my notes, and was like DOIH!!! Get back to the possible fuel tank issue. And sure enough look at the fuel filter OMG!!!!! its horrible. And once I pull the current one off there, and cut it open after its good and dry, I imagine I will find the same thing. At least my relative has done this tank cleaning before, since he restores cars for a living. I told him about it today, and he was like get that thing up here. I said yeah, come and get it on the tow truck (he has a big flat bed truck that my Z was on one time before when it died because of a wet relay that went bad, because we had a hurricane storm almost - but thats a whole other story) because he knows I wont drive in winter. Its too precious to me. EDIT: I cannot imagine how much this crud must be effecting the car. And lord knows for how long its been happening before I ever got the car. Its making me kind of blue. I mean some of it must be making it past the fuel filter right? Especially mucking up the fuel injectors in countless waysssssssssss. Oh well, once he cleans it, and I change fuel filter, I will run it for a little while, and make sure its OK. and then, finally I will get to replace the injectors....geeeze what a long drawn out process. And now I am even more convinced of how bad the injectors must be. The car should really liven up once these things are done. I remember talking about this issue 1.5 years ago with my relative who was working on the car, but with all the other mechanical type work being done, it was not important because the car was in pieces on the floor. I probably mentioned it 6 times to him at least. I really wish now, I would have just had him do it. ughg But hey, I am very lucky to even have these kind of problems. I realize that too. Im not complaining really Im not.

Well its not sand. It feels very powdery, and not a hard material as far as I can tell and some of it is very fine small particles like finer than flour in a kitchen. Its probably already too late for that. But then again, who knows. I mean I had several mechanics look at it, listen to it, run tests, etc and even drive it in (if you see my other super long post, you will see a long list of mechanical type stuff that has been done to it, none of which was related to the engine except the exhaust manifold gasket). And they didnt go OH MY GOD DONT EVER DRIVE THIS CAR UNTIL YOU FIX X,Y, or Z!!!! However, that doesnt mean the engine isnt screwed up because of this happening with the crap in the fuel tank....for lord knows how long it has been going on, and for how many miles. Poor baby. Im crying for it now.

Well, now I am really kicking myself for not opening that thing up before. But hey I am not a car wisperer. I am just doing my best to get things taken care of in the order that seems to make sense. It does seem like a lot of material in there!!!!! And the bad thing is that once I hacked the top off, I kind of tapped the filter on the paper again, and like 25% more stuff came out. And it was a lot finer material. I think there is another cavity inside of it, that leads to the nipple on the top of it? I havent poked that part open yet. But since I dont know exactly how this kind of a fuel filter works, I am not sure what else there is to see. What I am saying is that, OK, the filter material trapped a LOT of particles, but then I was thinking somehow that there is another mechanism in this filter where the fuel flows too like via pressure, it gets squeezed into the output side? PS I am not sure what you meant about a rear filter? As far as I know this is the only fuel filter, besides the screen in the tank, and supposedly another screen somewhere in the fuel line leading up into the fuel filter (is there one of those screens by the way in the fuel line somewhere's behind the fuel filter? or is that a myth. The reason I am asking is because if I know where its at, I can pull it out maybe, and clean it too) Of course I already have a relative who works on restoring cars, and I told him what I found today. And they know how to steam clean it, seal it, etc...so once I can get the car up there I will have this done. He has a big huge tow truck, and is willing to come and pick it up. So I dont even have to drive it on the winter roads.

Well here is a picture of my fuel filter. I took it off the car in the summer of 2010, and just forgot about cutting it open. We have suspected there is a rust problem in the tank. Based on other facts we have been collecting about the car, we think it sat for a while. And probably with a half filled gas tank. And therefore the top of the gas tank is probably all rusty and corroded etc I believe I only drove 200/300 or so miles on the one in the picture. But I cannot be sure because too many things have happened since the last year or so. However, I have another fuel filter on the car now, which I am gonig to pull off to check it. I drove about 1000 miles this summer with the current fuel filter on it. So that one I will know for sure, it was around 1000 miles on it. And I always filled up the tank, figuring it would be collecting all kinds of nasty stuff in it, if the tank really is messed up. I will cut it open too, after it dries out for a week or so. And see what comes out. If its the same as this, then that is probably not a good thing. I cannot imagine that a fuel filter should have nearly this much material in it. If so, I would be surprised. But what do I know, Im a noob. Am counting on your help to tell me if this is shocking or normal. Thanks! PS Sorry i posted this on another thread about fuel tanks, and figured this was better to post it here instead.

Well here is what my fuel filter looked like. I have suspected the gas tank was probably rusty. Doesnt this prove it??? I have never cut open a fuel filter before, but I was shocked to see all this junk fall out of it when I opened it up

Here is some more information....that I just posted in another thread about my test results tonight. I am buying more guages, and starting to learn how and where to hook them up. Im a software programmer, and I like having facts to look at and study. Otherwise its all a guessing game for a noob like me Take a look at the thred below. I installed fuel pressure guage, vaccum guage, and used a hand vacuum pump too ************************ http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40938&page=2

Well, I put the vacuum gauge in between the FPR with a T, and the intake manifold. It was getting like 5 to 8, and bouncing around. That doesnt sound good. The only time it got up to around 18 was when I had it revved up to about 2500 rpm's. So then I connected the vacuum guage directly to the hose leading into the exhaust manifold where the FPR normally goes to. And then I connected a vacuum hand pump to the FPR. And put it at 18 in of vacuum. So the FPR had the pressure I think it needed? about 18 in of vacuum. When I did that, the vacuum guage was reading around 10 in of vacuum, but didnt stay steady, it kind of fluctuate between 9 and 10 ish. In general I dont know how solid the vacuum is supposed to be. Since this is my virgin time ever looking at this kind of a guage. I know....Im a total noob. Is it supposed to be like rock solid at 18 all the time with very little flutter? The car sounded different when I ran it this way. I dont know how to explain it exactly, but when I stepped back by the muffler it sounded different. And the engine seemed to be running different too...like a different overall sound to it. And during this test I watch my fuel pressure guage. It was around 38 psi, during the first test, where the vacuum gauge was on a T, in between the exhaust and the FPR. But when I applied 18 in of vacuum to the FPR with the hand pump, and it held that pressure during this whole test....the fuel pressure dropped to 32 psi. So that was what I found out. I dont know what any of this means. But figured I would throw it out there. I took videos of the engine running, and the guages showing these numbers during my 2 tests. So I will just keep documeting as I go along. And also, one last thing the fuel pressure held up at about 25 psi over night in about 24 hours period. I left the guage on there, to see what happened.

Thanks for the information. All good to know. So the intake screen is the first line of defense for any debris that would come from the bottom sluge possibly in the fuel tank. I would feel a lot better if I knew the condition of the inside of my tank!!!!! If I totally drain the gas out of it....I heard that it can be hard to start it????? Any comments about that? And one other thing, I am curious if anyone has ever put together a parts list for all the rubber hoses on the car? I would like to replace all of them this year, and preferrably before I install my new fuel injectors. Maybe that is just overkill to replace all of them. But seeing as most of them are probably really old, it seems to make sense. I have replaced some of them for specific reasons. But thats only a few so far

Well before I install my new fuel injectors, there is something bothering me in the back of my mind. What if my fuel tank is all rusted out and mucked up? I found a few posts on the forum about being able to inspect the fuel tank by removing the fuel sending unit. Im starting to think I need to do that before I do anything else. I mean what if that tank is all rusty and icky inside. The rest of the car would never run according to specs, if the tank is sending junk into the fuel system. Can a noob Z owner pull this inspection panel, and fuel sending unit without causing major problems. I am hoping its doable. I am getting more famliar with my z car over this winter time. I just dont know why I would bother doing anything else until I know for sure if my fuel tank is in good/great shape or not. I mean if its in bad shape, then I need to fix it now. And that would set me back a while. But seems like the right thing to do. Of course not knowing the history of the car, means it could have sat for a long time. Considering the tires all were flat spotted, makes me think it sat for a while. Meanwhile yukking up the fuel tank. Edit: can anyone give me the steps to do this carefully and then I can look into the fuel tank. I have seen inspection cameras for like 150 bucks (of course they are not meant to submerge in gas so I wont do that). I would use up most of the gas, and then I could really inspect it good.

Oh yeah, one other thing, what kind of vacuum would I see if I connected a vacuum pressure guage to the car? And where would I connect it to get good readings? I know there is a hose going from the port on the fuel pressure regulator to the intake manifold. Is that a place to stick it? And is it best to hook it up inline, like with a T connector...so the vacuum is just passing through it, while still not pulling off any hoses on the engine as to effect its normal operating performance, while you are checking vacuum readings? When a person is trying to measure vacuum on a 1978 z car, are there multiple places to take readings? And lastly, what is the vacuum it should be pulling? I thought I saw in the FSM its supposed to be -18.5inHg thanks

It was interesting, I watched it go up to about 40psi after shutoff, it held there for a while (15 to 30 minutes maybe) and then it started to go down. I think it was about 60 to 90 minutes later...and it was down to 25 psi. I have to go out there to do my next testing...so I will see where its at now. I would imagine its pretty low. It seems to me if it doesnt hold pressure all night long, then there is leaking fuel injectors involved (or cold start injector), Unless its just a natural phenomena for the fuel pressure in any car to drop over a 24 hour period. Interesting idea about testing the guage with compressed air. This will seem dumb question, but are you saying to hook up the fuel pressure guage to an air compressor. And then have the air compressor go up to say 40 psi, and then check it against the reading on the fuel pressure guage? If that is what you meant.....welllllllllllll I dont know if I have correct fittings to hook them together. And also, my current air compressor isnt exactly the greatest thing in the world. Had it for years, and its a smaller one that cost me like 100$. So Im thinking its not going to be very accurate either.....

When I said I installed it, I just meant that I hooked it up in the engine area temporarily so I can run tests with it. Not a permanent install. I hooked it up, after the fuel filter, using rubber hose, in a "T" formation. And at the top of the T, is the fuel prssure guage, If you click the link above, you can see the metal "T" connector I used. Would it really be off by that much? Its reading 38psi during idle. I mean I just clamped it down good, and hooked it up. I could buy another one and see if it gives the same readings. I mean the chances of two of them being bad is probably unlikely. The chances of me somehow hooking them up improperly is higher risk. But i just followed directions in the actron manual, and its reading about 38 psi at idle. I tested it again today. And when you rev it up a little and hold it there, it seemed to stay right around 36psi. PS So you are saying ace hardware type store has a fuel pressure guage? What parts do I need to make my own? And are you saying I would hook it up using a T connector like the one listed above?

Here is what happened tonight on my 1978 z car Well I finally got around to hooking up my new actron fuel pressure guage. For better or wrose, I put it after the fuel filter. It was easier to put it there for my first time doing this. Here it is http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16173 And here is what happened. My wife turned on ignition but not start it. Immediately it shot up to like 40 psi and stayed there. She turned it off. It stayed at 40. Turned it back on again w/o starting it, and it stayed around 40 Then she started it...and at idle it stayed around 40. I dont know how accurate this fuel pressure guage is though. That seems way too high. Is it possible I hooked it up wrong and caused it to read incorrectly? hmmm anything is possible. Ok soooo....we let the car idle for a few minutes, and then had her revvvvv it up a little bit and hold it there. At a higher idle, it was sitting at 36psi. And as she let her foot off the gas it went back up to about 40. Then we let it idle a little longer...and after it got a little warmer it seemed to hover around 38psi. Then she shut it off. And it slowly went up to 40 psi after a few minutes. I thought that was kind of wierd. Then I kept an eye on it for 30 minutes, and after 30 minutes, it was down to 36 psi. I will check it in the morning and see where its at. If the car was operating properly should it hold the pressure all night long??? **************** A few other things....I tighten down the clamps pretty darn good. I dont know if they can be too tight. I suppose if it cut into the hose that would be too tight. I seem to always want to give things an extra ooomph to make them a little tighter rather then leave them looser. I suppose with time and practice I might learn what is right. I dont know how to apply to correct torque according to the manual for those clamps? What kind of screwdriver has a torque meter on it basically? There must be something like that.... I just never seen one. **************** 1. Should I hook up the meter before the fuel filter too? 2. Should I or can I even, hook it up on the return line back to the fuel tank?

Wow that is really interesting about the unleaded gas, and the old tractor. From what I know, only the California cars have the catalytic converter on them? But does that mean every person on here (non california) with a decent running Z car, has a fumy stinky exhausty kind of a smell coming out of their tailpipes? My two 99 chevys dont have any abormal kind of smell to them. But I suppose they both have catalytic convertors since they are 20 years newer almost.

I am glad I found this thread too. Now its added to my long list of things to do. I find it very interesting (as mentioned above) that even a good running engine, still can produce this exhaust smell in the car. Because that is my main complaint about driving my z car. When I rolled down the windows... I get an exhaust smell building up in the car. In fact if I had a coat on it, I could take it off, and walk inside and the coat actually *stinks* I saw the thread about using the fog machine. I have one. So I will be doing that too. I really hope I can eliminate this problem once and for all. I never smelled exhaust on any other car I have owned. At least I am not the only one with this problem. I cant imagine that new Z cars had this problem. I suppose it just started happening once they got *old*. I dont have a stock exhaust on it. Previous owner changed it. I think its a monza? exhaust. It has dual tips on it and it sticks out maybe just a little past the back bumper. And I have back window louver, and side window louvers that I added. I may very well take them all off, and drive the car and see if the smell changes or is better or worse. The back louvers have been on car since 1978 (I see them on the original sales reciept that I have for the car). The side louvers I added myself. It just makes me think that the back louvers didnt cause this effect on the car. Its probably just bad seals all over the place. It seems to me that Previous owner replaced some of the seals. I also checked various grommets and fixed/replaced a few of them.

Thanks for input. I was thinking that yes, this is all done with the car off And this machine for 650$ just pressurizes the system enough to send smoke creeping out anywhere it shouldnt be. I was amazed watchingf the video how quickly and easily it worked. I really thought WOW, this would be a very effective way to find out, without doubt and with visual proof (it leaves a colored dye for those really small ones) and the trail of smoke coming out. I am hoping to find someone in my area that has such a machine. The problem is, that being a noob to this concept, I dont know exactly where and how to attach something like this. Or to tell someone who has a machine but isnt familiar with the z car, where to attach it. It sounds like it can be used on the intake side, since it pressurizes the system enough. And the videos actually show using it in the exhaust system, and other systems/areas on the vehicle too. So it seems very useful for someone like me who isnt a mechanic, but could use such a tool to SHOW ME these leaks in different systems. A few other thoughts.... I have a fog machine, but was leary about what it might do to the car, sicne I dont know exactly what is in the "fog" chemicals However, I could use the fog machine to fill up the cabin of the car and look for leaks around the seals everywhere. I am definately going to do that, just for the fun of it. And I am curious if and how much fog might creep out of the car. Especially around the back hatch. If I cant find anyone with a machine, I might invest in it. And I can always resell it sometime. I can use it on all my cars too. It just seems indispensible, especially for someone like me, who doesnt know all these tricks of the trade to find leaks in all the different systems that they claim you can use this machine on Can someone post a picture of where to hook this machine up to, on a z car? I suppose there could be a few places to do it, on the intake side. And If I used it on the exahust system, I know where to stick it. in the tailpipe.