Jetaway

I understand and accept all you have written. Eppur si muove Chris

Needs to pee? Chris

Doradox wrote: The hub will move for and aft if you only move one LCA bushing location. The whole LCA pivots about the fixed bushing swinging the wheel side of the LCA. A small amount but it will move approximately by.. (the amount the rear bushing was moved ) * ((Distance from LCA shaft to hub)/(distance front to rear of the LCA bushings)) Jmortensen replied: Exactly the point I was trying to make. Yours is a much more technical and accurate way of saying: "There will be a slight movement in the hub when the toe angle changes, but you're not going to get a lot of movement there. Sorry about the unusual quoting style, but I couldn't figure out how to quote a quote and this was the relevant passage. Jon, I think you overlooked that I didn't move just one bushing location. I had loosened every bolt attaching the transverse link / control arm to the frame and those attaching the differential carrier to the frame. I only whacked that one point with the little sledge, but I never intended it to be, nor was it, the only point that moved. I don't have before and after pictures, but I assure you that the support plate (one of the two) that holds the rear of the differential carrier went from a definite angle, with the bottom of it closer to the front of the car than the top went to perpendicular, or at least damn close to, after my ministrations. Toe? Whose toe? More accurately, which toe? When we talk about toe-in or toe-out we are assuming that, at zero toe, each wheel's rotation is parallel to the frame of the car and parallel to it's partner on the other side of the car. So, when the rear's toes are identical, even if non-zero, the resulting vector, or thrust remains parallel to the frame of the car. But in my case, the first assumption was wrong. While each rear wheel was parallel to each other, they were not parallel to the frame of the car. Even if both rear wheels had exactly zero toe, the thrust vector was out of parallel with the frame of the car and also with the front wheels. After moving back one side, the rear wheels became parallel with the frame of the car and remained parallel to one another. The thrust vector then became parallel with those of the front wheel, even though the rear wheel's toe remained unchanged. Chris

Sorry about the delay. Actually, it did more than affect the toe. I had the car parallel to the ground a foot and a half in the air and dropped many a line for point-to-point measures. I can't pretend to tell you the mechanism, but every measure I took indicated that center of the rear hubs moved, bringing the right and left wheelbase much closer in length. Professional before and after thrust angle measures also showed a much closer alignment with the body. Chris

Man, what a bummer. One I'll never be and the other is aspirational. Chris

Thanks all, especially Lazeum for the bolt diagrams (a little late for me on the front end, but will be _very_ handy when I shift my tack to the rear!), and Mike for BelMetric. A couple others suggested the McMaster-Carr site, which was very informative regarding grades and terminology. I plan on replacing any fastener that can be sourced with a replacement. I read long ago, and have no reason to doubt, that threaded fasteners lose some of their gripping power with each use, sometimes (as designed) destructively, but always some portion between substantial and trivial. A fender working loose is an annoyance, a strut separating from the control arm is potential catastrophe. Chris

OK, bushing down. Am I correct in assuming that if I don't need to pull the rack for the bushings, I can also replace the boots without pulling the rack? Chris

Haven't ordered them yet, so don't know. Must be something I'm missing here. The diagram shows a roundish piece that surrounds the steering rack. A misshapen donut, of sorts. Is the bushing a two-piece fitting that goes on over and under the rack? Chris

Well, they won't work now, I guess. Actually, that would explain the difference. Did you try Nevr-Dull before the paint? I went out and tested some on my manifold and it did make some progress. Chris

Oh yes, the famous American Trans-Contential Worldwide Bolt, Nut, and Miscellaneous Fastener Distribution and Retail Sales Company. God, the internet is great. More seriously, what would I look for? Fur example: The compression rod to control arm bolts measured as M10 X 1.25 X 43 (43, yes, I compared it with a known 45 and it was indeed a bit shorter) with 30 mm of thread. Is there a nomenclature used to designate a bolt with 13 mm's unthreaded, or conversely, to indicate that only 30 mm of the 43 mm length is threaded that distinguishes this bolt from one threaded the entire length of the shaft? Chris

How did you do that? I go see a little finesse and in my case, many bad words, could get the right side out, but how do you get the bushing past the connection to the steering column on the left side? Chris

Seems reasonable to me. The oil pan looks cast, not just sheet metal so it should be pretty strong. I don't have a board that thick, but putting a decent piece of plywood on the pan and a 2 X 4 between the plywood and the jack should spread the force out sufficiently. Good tip on watching the coolant hose. I think my top is OK, but the lower might just have its own ideas. Thanks, Chris

I would have preferred to name this thread Nuts! but that wouldn't be accurate. I'm replacing all the bushings and any worn-out parts on the front end of my 1972. While it came apart easy enough, considering, several of the bolts have damaged threads and I'd need to replace them. What I am unsure about is how exact the replacement must be, specifically the length of the unthreaded portion of the shaft. On the transverse link / control arm mounting bolt, it is pretty clear that the unthreaded portion is necessary to enable the bushing free movement around the shaft. But most of the others don't have a free-movement requirement, with the unthreaded portion simply in a smooth-bore hole. Could I use full-length threaded bolts in this case? Or what am I overlooking as to why I couldn't use a full-length thread bolt? Chris

Compared with my '72, the body of your tops look a little squashed, and the neck a little longer. Could just be the angle and/or my imagination. And, while it could be hidden, yours appears not to have a buttress of sorts on the neck. But also one heck of a lot shinier than mine. Chris

Somebody* said something about capitalism battering down Chinese walls. Close enough to apply here, methinks. Chris * Karl Marx and Frederich Engles.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking about the "1973." I have a 1972 and I thought that they went to square tops in 1973. In fact the whole engine bay looks closer to mine than a 1973 which had a lot more smog equipment. And didn't something about the bumpers change in 1973? Height or mounting point? From the one look, the bumper sure looks the same as mine. And, of course, the sunroof, which I understand was not available as a factory option. Chris

Julio (or anyone else who cares to respond), To replace the bushings, I need to pull the steering rack. My manuals all say to loosen the engine mount bolts and either lift or jack the engine up a little bit for clearance. I don't have a lift, so I'll have to use a jack. But where do I put it? I see only three places, the oil pan, the valve cover and the front crank, none of which seem like real great choices. So what's the best place to jack up the engine? Chris

So "road forcing" is a high speed spin balance? At least at a shop that calibrates their equipment properly. I gotta admit, it does sound cool. Chris

Jim, I went for it and found that a 1 inch Craftsman socket fit the bill. Gave the area flame for a couple of minutes then used a friend's small press. Came out easier than any of the U-Joints I've taken apart. It looks like the front-most bushing in Mike W's 4th photo above, though the rubber in mine was falling apart. I didn't have rust like in his mustache bar to deal with, and I've only pressed one out so far, so complications could well develop. Chris

Mike, Thanks. The bushing pictured sure looks similar to the front control arm bushing. But why can't it be pressed out? I realize that pressing on the rubber or inner metal tube would just rip out the rubber without moving the outer tube, but why couldn't you use something like a socket or a disc small enough to fit inside the control arm proper but wide enough to get enough surface on the outer bushing tube for high pressure? Now that I bothered to look, that is the part number. Wonder why the FSM said to replace the whole control arm? Cost more for the mechanic's labor to get the old bushing out than a new arm? At least when the car was new? I'd love to have a powder blaster, but I'm afraid that if I had one and an air compressor to power it, the Z would join my other car parked outside my "2-car" garage. Chris

I meant to write this in my follow-up post: I would have tried the method you suggested earlier, but with the suspension 3/4ths dismantled I would have had to reverse a lot of work already done. I'll give it a shot when everything is back together. Chris

OH OH. Do nothing more! I'm not well-versed enough to be able to tell you what to do to get out of your predicament, but I do know enough to know that you have a predicament. Chill and wait for the knowledgable ones to tell you what you need to do next. Chris

What's "road forcing?" I hear you on the roads, brother. There are stretches of arterials around here that I won't do the speed limit for fear of breaking or bending something. And that's not just in my Z either, but also in a newish 4000 lb. crossover. Roads are getting scary bad out here. Chris

LeonV: Thanks for the formula, though I'm not sure how to count spring turns. So, I spread and came up with estimates of 140 lbs (if 9 turns) to 197 lbs (if 7 turns). John Coffey: I took your advice into consideration and remeasured. By now I had everything disconnected (last time the steering knuckle was still attached). I used wedges under the scale, the wood platform (used to spread out the force) and the bottle jack until I had the jack's piston movement lined up exactly with the struts stroke. I taped up my scale and marked 1, 1 and 1/2 and 2 inches of spring compression. The scale is auto-on and auto-off once it has a stable weight, so I couldn't stop and note the exact intermediate weight, but I did repeat the process several times and am confident with the figures. The first inch required 240 (once), and 250 (twice), with 1 and 1/2" readings of 320, 330, and 330. I couldn't continue on to 2 inches because the scale maxed out at 396 lbs. (Odd capacity to say the least. But it does measure in pounds, kilograms and ... stones.) I extrapolated that the second inch would be 160 lbs. I matched the angle of the coil to the jack, detached everything connected to the coil/strut assembly, and doubt that the scale would be as much as 5% inaccurate at 83% of rated capacity. That's pretty much in the sweet spot for solid-state scales. Think that about covers your points. Interestingly, my estimate of 270 lbs using the simpler wheel on scale approach (and with the steering knuckle attached) isn't that far out of line with my new first inch estimate. By spec, the knuckle adds between 9 and 34 lbs and the mechanics I had give it a push thought it was still serviceable. Toss in half the difference and you get 250 lbs. My biggest mistake, by far, was my ignorance of the first inch effect. 160 lbs seem more reasonable to you? Chris

Thanks all, I've been slowly dismantling the front end, giving the magic of penetrant plenty of time to work, with the happy side effect of dampening my OCD tendencies. LeonV and John Coffey: I'll get back to you on spring rates in a new thread in this area. MikeW and Jim: You've got me leaning heavily towards rubber rather than urethane. Frankly, urethane, if it was a stiff as I would think it is (and apparently is) never seemed like a great idea for the street. There ain't a lot between you and the street in an early Z and replacing most of the buffers with basically solid pieces seemed unnecessarily brutal. I've got a couple of questions somewhat buried in here. I'll label them "Question" if you don't want to wade through the verbal rubble. So far, so good, as far as the dismantling has gone. Only had to borrow one tool from a neighbor, a 19 mm 1/2 socket and when he offered his foot-longer than my 1 and 1/2 foot breaker bar, I gladly accepted. Diesel mechanics tend to have some big tools on hand. Nothing has broken or snapped off, though some of the bolts/nuts definitely need to be replaced. I've made mental note of the suggestions as to the cause of wheel wobble but I think I've found enough worn parts to, hopefully, solve the problem. Both ball joints flopped over on removal. I've been told that is not good, so both ball joints will be replaced. One of the the main transverse link / control arm bushing appears shot and the other wounded, if not dead. The link is to control up and down movement, so I'm assuming that fore / aft movement (that is, in the direction of the travel) should be minimal. On the driver's side the link can swing 15 / 20 degrees fore / aft. Passenger side less, but probably more than it should. QUESTION: The FSM covers removal of the main bushing, but seems to be referring only to the metal tube in middle because it says "if rubber and inner/outer tube joints (adhered) are sticky (melted) or cracked, replace the transverse link as an assembly." I'm not sure if the bushing is adhered or melted, but I'm sure it is shot, so does this mean I have to find the whole transverse link / control arm? What are the control arm bushings available at Black Dragon then? Something else? I couldn't find any other bushings that I would call transverse link / control arm bushings. Both of the sway bar bushing mounts were split clear through. There may be another equally large problem with the sway bar assemblage. QUESTION: (See attachment Sway Bar Strut). Not sure of this thing's name, "Rod Connection Assembly" is from the on-line parts catalog, but this is one of the two rods/ struts that connect the sway bar to the control arm. They looked symmetrical to me, so I didn't make note of which side connected to the sway bar and which side to the control arm. It was only later when degreasing did I discover this notch / indentation (there is one on the other rod/strut as well, but not quite as large.). The notch/indent only appeared on one side of the strut. I don't think it was designed with a notch, which brings up the question, is this something to be concerned about? Oh -- one of the engine mount nuts was only 1/2 way down the bolt. Nothing to do with the wobble, but both steering rack boots need replacing. QUESTION: I degreased and de-rusted the control arms and ended up with bare metal. They should be painted, right? Is there a special high-impact paint that should be used? I used Evapo-Rust for the first time on this project. I'll give it a solid 3/4s thumbs up at this point with a full thumb awaiting it's long-term rust removing abilities. Good Points: 1) OK, this point is from their promotional material, I haven't tested it myself, but it does not affect plastic and is non-toxic. 2) Truly is a "lazy-man's" rust remover. Let the parts soak overnight, an easy water rinse in the morning, and yes, you are done and the rust is indeed gone. 3) Possibly less expensive than common alternatives like Naval Jelly or other such removers as it can be used over and over and over again. Less than Good Points: 1) It takes its time. The promotional material suggests as little as a half hour for light rust. Maybe, and maybe because it seems to be quite sensitive to temperature it would work much faster at 80 -- 90 degrees than 50 -- 60. I still think they are being a bit optimistic about its speed. And make no mistake, let it work overnight and it will do an excellent job for you. 2) Not a big fan of grease. Of course you should remove all the grease before using a rust remover, but some of that stuff, like the greaserust is pretty hardy stuff. Naval Jelly, while not removing it per se, at least weakens it sufficiently to enable removal. Evapo-Rust has little or no effect, and may even be inhibited in the if a grease spot is in the area. Not entirely sure about the latter point. 3) Largish up-front cost. They do sell it in quart bottles, but other than fasteners and other small pieces, I can't see much use for a quart. You don't brush it on, you immerse the part in it. I had a just about optimal sized container for the transverse link and it took an entire gallon to barely get it all covered. True, I could throw in a few fasteners as well, but not another part of similar size. If I were in a hurry on this project, and want to get everything derusted in one night, I could easily use three / four gallons at $25 -- $30 a pop. True, that might last me a year or even two years, but then again, I may be dead in a year and a fat lot of good four gallons of nearly new deruster would do me then. Odd Point: The website makes a point of its reusability, explaining the chemistry of it and saying use it till it turns pitch black and doesn't work anymore. (I believe it said a gallon can hold two pounds of rust in suspension) but the package itself says nothing of this, which I think is one of its strongest selling points. Thanks for the input, all. Chris