Modification of option 1 boxes

[Gee]

I have an option 1 box in my 240 which I am pretty sure has the Porsche type sychros in it. The synchros are stuffed and I have the option to replace with new Porsche synchros, or to butcher a 280 box (with the Warner synchros in it) to use parts from that to make a "better" box, i.e. with the option 1 ratios but with the better, Warner type synchros.

My questions are, will the option 1+280 box be better than the standard option 1 box?? Will that difference be significant? I want to modify my motor soon to produce a bit more power, so will the "frankenstein" box be stronger??? Apparently all the race guys use this " option 1 + 280 box" setup, is this right???

HELP!!!!

[HS30-H]

Hi Gee,

I have two "Option" boxes ( one is an 'Option 1' direct top, and the other is the 'Rally' option direct top ).

What you have described seems to be quite popular now. The later Warner type synchros last much longer and are cheaper too. In some cases, the parts for the early Option boxes are no longer available.

A friend of mine has just rebuilt his 'Rally' Option box with the Warners, and he reports that it feels great. He was expecting that it might not be as good as the original Porsche type synchros ( he was expecting slower shifts ) but he says that it is just as good as it ever was.

I don't know about 'stronger' - but the Warner synchros should not have the teeth fall off them like the Porsche ones sometimes do. It will probably stand up better to punishment.

I've got this type of rebuild to look forward to ( not! ) in the near future on my Option 1 too.

Good luck!

Alan T.

[Z Kid]

Just make sure its a true option box, not just a dogleg box out of a 180B SSS, you could be all excited over nothing (speaking from experience here)

Cheers Chris

[Gee]

I was under the impression that all early 260 boxes were option 1 boxes here in Australia.. true??

Alan, I thought that the Warner synchros would actually make things faster? By the way, have you ever thought of making a list of Z books that people could collect? No doubt you have a large collection and the reference would be invaluable, especially if you were to comment on how good each book was... there might even be a few gaps people around the site could fill...

[PrOxLaMuS©]

whats an option box?

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Gee

I was under the impression that all early 260 boxes were option 1 boxes here in Australia.. true??

Er, I don't think so.

If they were I think Australia would be a happy hunting ground for people like myself...........:classic:

The "Option 1 Race Transmission" ( part no. 32010-N3220 ) was a Close-Ratio unit with a direct ( 1:1 ) fifth gear. Gear ratios were:

2.818 / 1.973 / 1.470 / 1.192 / 1.000 and they have a 'Dogleg' shift pattern ( 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th gears are arranged in the normal "H" pattern, with 1st gear on the 'Dogleg' sprung left and back ). This was useful for competition in that first gear would presumably be used only once, and then other gears could be used smoothly, quickly and safely with less chance of mis-shift and damage.

The Factory called these direct-top "Option 1 / Option 2 / Option 3 & Rally" transmissions the "F5C71-B" - not to be confused with the "FS5C71-B" & "FS5W71-B" overdrive boxes.

What might be confusing you is the fact that non-USA markets got the Close-Ratio Overdrive ( "CROD" 32010-N3130 ) and Wide-Ratio Overdrive ( "WROD" 32010-N3030 ) on standard cars before the USA did. Both these boxes were sold through Datsun Competition in the USA as 'Option' / Sports boxes when in fact they were standard equipment for other markets.

Some of the 4-cylinder models ( like the 180B SSS as Z Kid pointed out ) got a different transmission that also had a 'Dogleg' shift pattern, and these are often confused with the true "Option" boxes.

Complicated isn't it? Maybe I'm not explaining it properly.

Alan T.

[Gee]

I don't think it's complicated if I read you right.. basically 1st sits next to 3rd at the bottom of the pattern, so it goes..

2 4

_|_|

| | |

1 3 5

instead of..

1 3 5

|_|_|

| |

2 4

Bugger. That means mine is just a boring old 260 box then.

Still worth changing over to Warners?

[HS30-H]

Hi Gee,

Yes - that's it.

Sorry to hear yours is not an Option 1 after all.

Warner synchros can't be bad as it seems to be a popular swap.

Having said that, one of the BEST boxes that I have ever experienced in an early Z was an FS5C71-A "straight stick" box that had recently been rebuilt with the original Porsche type synchros. It had been blueprinted and assembled by a specialist who had really taken his time over it. Lovely.

Alan T.

[Gee]

Just talked to a guy that sold a genuine ex-works Option1 box. $3,500 ouch!!

[HS30-H]

Yes - they are changing hands for quite high prices these days. They never were what you might call 'cheap', but they cost more now than they ever did.

A full rebuild ( and I mean full, with all new synchros, bearings etc and proper blueprinting ) runs to a LOT of money.

Can I ask if you think that guy's description of his box as a genuine "ex-Works" Option 1 box is accurate? What I mean is, do you think it really came from one of Nissan's Factory-backed race programmes, or is it just a loose description of a genuine Sports Option item?

The reason I ask is that ( to people like me anyway ) there is a fairly big difference between ex-Team stuff and stuff that could be bought over the counter. Whenever I read or hear "ex-Works" I start getting excited and begin to think that if I follow the trail back I might find the holy grail of a genuine ex-Works car. Most of the time it proves not to be the case.:classic:

Alan T.

[Gee]

His advertisment was on www.ozdat.com :

Nissan Option 1 gearbox Reluctant sale of genuine ex-works Option 1 L-series gearbox with slip yoke (not flange). Has been sitting in car in garage for last 8 years. Contact Cam on 0427 577 702

Price: POA Location: Melbourne

Contact: Cam Jay Phone: 0427 577 702 (hours: All reasonable hours)

Like I said this ad was a while ago so the box is now sold. The prefix for Melbourne from the UK is +613 & if you want me to go and look at anything, myself or someone here should be able to help as I am in the North of Victoria, whereas Gav is further South.

Can you tell the technically inept (i.e me) what a slip yoke is as opposed to a flange??

[Z Kid]

I think when he refers to slip yoke/flange he is referring to how the driveshaft attaches to the back of the gearbox. If it was a flange system, it would be bolted there with four bolts, similar to how your driveshaft attaches at the diff end, and I think the driveshaft would have to be a two piece affair to allow for a little bit of slip (ie have a splined joint to allow for movement in the centre) the slip yoke is what I think most standard Z's (with the exception of the early early models) have where by the driveshaft is splined and simply pushes into the back of the gearbox, and the movement in and out is permitted by this system, meaning the driveshaft can be one piece.

Cheers Chris

(Of course I may be wrong, I often am)

[HS30-H]

Yep - Z Kid has given a good explanation on the yoke / flange question. Most of the early "A" type boxes had the bolt-together flange type ( with a sliding spline propshaft ) and most of the "B" type boxes had a sliding spline rear output with a solid propshaft.

Gee, many thanks for offering to follow up on any enquiries I might have in Australia. That's very kind of you - I appreciate it. Cheers.

Generally-speaking, I would define "Ex Works" as meaning the part / vehicle was actually USED / owned by the Factory Works rally or race teams. For example, my "OPTION 1" and "Rally Option" transmissions were never ( to my knowledge ) owned or used by Nissan's Factory race or rally teams - but they ARE genuine Sports Option "race" parts. Contrast this with for example my genuine 6pcs ex-Works magnesium "Rally Mag" wheels - which were indeed used on Factory run rally cars here in Europe. One of the team drivers 'liberated' them from the back of a Works service barge and put them away for a rainy day. Naughty naughty. Don't tell Nissan as they might want them back...........

If anyone wants to buy my "Rally" Option box ( unused after mega-expensive full rebuild ) they are welcome to contact me, but might need to have a chair nearby so that they can sit down when I tell them the price...............

Alan T.

[Ben]

The mention of the use of Option boxes in Aussie 260Z's is incorrect.

However I believe that there was a large number of CROD boxes used, as mentioned above. And due to the closeness of the gears, a number of people believed that they were true Option boxes.

I have a friend with an Option 3 gearbox behind a Z24 turbo. But the gears are just too close together to be suitable for that application. Heck, you can skip 2nd 3rd & 4th and still get moving quick....

[Gee]

Alan,

Totally off topic, but..

As you know many of the plastic interior bits here in Oz are getting harder and harder to find due to sun damage (and the stupid location of the choke lever - but that's another whinge) - seeing as the UK really doesn't get the same problems (i.e. you have rust, we have sun damage), are good condition interior parts like consoles and dashes readily available?

I know there were never many zeds imported to the UK, however maybe many made it to the breakers yards due to rust before the trim "went". The reason I ask is that I still have family there and maybe it would be cheaper for them to send me the trim bits I need rather than chase up relative rarities here.. maybe the same could be said of parts here that may be hard to get in the UK... dunno, just a thought.

[HS30-H]

Hi Gee,

Well - we don't get as much hot sunshine as other countries, but the interior trim panels seem to go brittle and crack up just the same.

I've been hunting for good early interior panels for my project car ( it came with NO interior except the dash ) and I have to say that its been really tough. Most of the used ones you come across are trashed.

There are quite a few people sniffing around for good parts over here, and when they find them they lay them down like fine wines.

Shipping from the UK to Australia is going to cost more than shipping from USA / Canada too - so all in all it kind of nixes the idea somewhat. There will be those RHD only parts that might have no alternative but to come from another RHD market - but you are so far away from the UK.

Japan is so much closer to you - but the Yen is mighty strong at the moment.

Sorry if it all sounds negative, but good stuff is VERY difficult to find over here these days.

If you need anything smallish or less likely to be trashed then don't hesitate to ask me.

All the best,

Alan T.