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doradox

If You Could Design a New 240Z

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How would you design a new 240Z?

I don't want to offend anyone but the 350/370Z just doesn't do it for me. When it came out I had high hopes but, even though it's a great car, it just wasn't a Z in the spirit of the 240's. And that was what I was hoping for.

Anyway, here's my idea of a 21st century 240.

Keep the styling of the original as much as possible, a few styling "cues" won't cut it with me. The original is a classically beautiful car. A few concessions as far the need to have 5 mph bumpers and such would obviously need to be made. A great example is the new Mustang. Modern yet unmistakably classic Mustang styling. Don't make it any bigger either.

4 wheel discs, antilock, power steering, a/c, and maybe traction control IF there's a way to turn it off completely when the mood strikes and it doesn't add weight. 17 inch wheels but don't get crazy with steam roller width tires. Maybe 215's .

Transmission.

A 6 speed manual. No paddle shifters. I want to do it all myself. Make sure the pedal arrangement allows for heel and toe action. An LSD is a must.

The Engine.

One of the things I love about the 240Z is the engine. Smooth, sounds great, willing rever. I could use a few more hp though. Keep the 2.4 liter straight 6 and give it an 8500 rpm redline, Injected, variable valve timing and all the other things that make modern engine go 'round. 200 or so hp, and a sound that would make a Z lover weep.

2500 lbs max weight. My 240SX comes in about 2550 with A/C, power steering, power windows and sunroof, 2.4 liter cast iron block 4. It's bigger and holds more people than my Z. One of the things that make the 240Z a great car is it's low weight.

No heated/power seats, nav system, or any other luxury crap. Leave that for the up market 370Z. People that have 35 grand to spend on a sports car demand that kind of stuff. The original was about 3500 bucks US and adjusted for inflation that's about $20,000 US now. Keep it under $25,000 US fully equipped (custom wheels, spoilers, junk like that) but have a model that can be purchased for 20-22K US that doesn't skimp on performance. Don't make me buy a bunch of junk I don't want to get the "performance" model.

Pretty much if I could meld the best parts of my 240SX with my 240Z I'd have the car of my dreams.

What changes/additions would you make to my wish list?

Steve

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I totally agree with you doradox. The thing that kills most "retro" styled cars is the size. Cars were supposed to get cheaper and lighter, but instead have turned into bloated luxo-cruisers that just hint at performance with a name-(charger, mustang, even the new mini is huge by old mini standards). They could do a sweet retro styled Z with the bucket headlights and light weight (something like a honda S2000 or BMW z4) And it would have to have a straight 6. I'm thinking RB. And your right about the price too. I mean have you seen how much a miata or s2000 costs? You could buy something with a V8 and back seats for the price of one of those things. I say bring back the 510. I said this on another forum : http://www.japanesenostalgiccar.com : build a cheap 4-cylinder rear drive car that doesn't look like a computer modeled jellybean.

By the way there is an entry on that site about bringing back the Datsun name, but you don't want to see the car they want to do it with. yuk!

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I totally agree with you doradox. The thing that kills most "retro" styled cars is the size. Cars were supposed to get cheaper and lighter, but instead have turned into bloated luxo-cruisers that just hint at performance with a name-(charger, mustang, even the new mini is huge by old mini standards). They could do a sweet retro styled Z with the bucket headlights and light weight (something like a honda S2000 or BMW z4) And it would have to have a straight 6. I'm thinking RB. And your right about the price too. I mean have you seen how much a miata or s2000 costs? You could buy something with a V8 and back seats for the price of one of those things. I say bring back the 510. I said this on another forum : http://www.japanesenostalgiccar.com : build a cheap 4-cylinder rear drive car that doesn't look like a computer modeled jellybean.

By the way there is an entry on that site about bringing back the Datsun name, but you don't want to see the car they want to do it with. yuk!

4 cylinder rear drive? Heck YAH! The 510 was a cool car (still is). The main reason I'm still with my '92 240SX is that there is no affordable rear drive 4 cylinder car available that can hold 4 in a pinch. I hear Nissan may be bringing back a 240SX like car in near future. One can only hope.

Steve

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I would love to see Nissan revert back to the older body style (S30) 240-280z type; but I don't think that's going to be happening; especially after seeing the new 370. For some reason they are fixed on that jellybean-like body style that has strayed far from the original.

I personally think the S30 body looks badass, and it's kind of sad that they don't think to reuse it. There are very few "remakes" nowadays that impress me. The new mustangs for example...no thanks.

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Well, Nissan made a prototype 240Z before they came out with the 350... A few more cues, but...

Conceptz.jpg

Honestly, I think the 350Z looks MUCH better than that. Honestly I think the 350Z is a GREAT looking car (even if it suffers from being bigger than it looks, much like certain Camaros)... I think the 350Z ties in terms of looks with the 240Z in my mind. I'd call it the best looking (attainable) car made today.

I hate retro styling because basically (as on the Challenger/Mustang etc.) this means taking the basic shape, rounding off the corners, and making it fat. Destroying any character in the process btw. The Camaro isn't quite so "retro", and actually manages to look more detailed and thoughtful than any Camaro made to date.

A Z with an S30 body and 5mph bumpers, they did that, I own one. ROFL though it wouldn't be a bad idea, IF Nissan could do it.

4 cylinder? A Z has a 6 (preferably inline if I had my way), but we need a Silvia with a 4...

Luckily, the S30Z (esp. the 280 IMO) is very modern feeling and still a feasible enough car that we don't need an exact copy just yet IMO. I'd rather have a classic than a new car any day, especially with prices where they are :laugh: And to that end, the 350Z is a car for these times, and does a GREAT job of it IMO.

(though these early 370 renderings disappoint me, as well as the continual engine bloat :ermm:)

The spirit of the 240Z to me is equaling a Porsche for half the price, and blowing the competition out of the water. The 350 seems to be doing that as well as the 240, at least (though most of its competition is dwindling, oddly).

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The 350/370Z in my opinion is ugly. The convertible even more so. They seem to have a love it or hate kind of style. And since beauty is in the eye....

A Z with 5 mph bumpers? Yeah, a 280 but that had 70's technology. Some of the front airdam styles I've seen keep the Z front end look but with a little engineering behind them could perform to modern standards without looking like they were an afterthought.

The 350Z is a car of the times. That to me is the problem. Every car starts out small(er) and fun then grows and grows in features and price until they are the original in name only. I don't need 330 hp to have fun. I once had a '52 Fiat roadster that had 50 hp and it was fun as heck to drive.

Styling is a matter of taste I suppose but the classic long hood and lines of the 240Z could be recreated without having to be an updated copy. The grill(?) on the 350 was supposed to be a nod to the 240Z 's styling and to me is a total failure. And don't even get me started on the door handles. Nissan trotted out the Z name and hype and delivered a ZX. Not that that is bad. Like I said before the 350/370 is a great car. But it's not in the spirit of the affordable fun to drive coupe that was the 240Z.

I think that the auto manufactures are scared to build a cheap fun car for fear that no one will want to buy the upscale models. For a while Chevy and Pontiac couldn't spec the more powerful small block that was in the Corvette for the much less expensive Camero/Firebird because GM was afraid it would cut into Covette sales. That Corvette owners would be mad that the cheap cars were just as fast. A light 200hp Z would run with the 350/370Z and if it were 10 grand cheaper why would you buy the 350/370?

Steve

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My opinion is all over the threads, but here it is again.

The 350z is a logical reuse of an excellent platform with among the ugliest exterior I could expexted to see only in a japanese comic book(...Project X did not come out before the 240Z)-its one saving grace in that respect is that you can't see any of it from the drivers seat!

It looks like an automotive stylists tribute to a tree frog(especially in green). People have pointed out what they consider to be styling cues shared with the 240Z, but I don't see them as any more shared styling than a glass windscreen alloy wheels, rubber tires, two seats, rear wheel drive, and lugnuts...

I have seen that some look better than others, and with a paint scheme to break up the cars actual lines, the convertibles can actually look good.

The 240Z(S30) is the prettiest of the Zs, followed by the late model 300s.

I would buy a new Z with a straight 6, and a few parts that are 240Z interchangeable or strongly favor the originals-Z emblems, gages, Hatch vents, Taillights, and jdm headlight covers. It would also need to share some Profile lines-it should favor nothing but a 240Z-one of the problems with the AudiTT-er 350Z, and its platform sharing bretherin...

Will

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That 240z prototype is pretty ugly imo. The grill/whole rounded front end just doesn't stay true to the originals; nor looks very good. The car looks more like a miata then a Z. I'd like to see what the back of it looks like though.

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you guys live in the past too much, yes the S30 styling is classic and will always look great, I also think the 300ZX (Z32) model is a timeless design that will look good for many years to come, there is a reason I bought both, but the 350Z is also a nice looking car, it has some faint references to the older Z's but that is what you want in a new modern car, imitating the old models is lame, just look at the new Challenger, Mustang, Camaro... they are all just the old design freshened up a little.

when a new model comes out you want it to appeal to the masses not just the old school owners, it is about selling cars not satisfying the nostalgia or you wont see the line survive, the drawback is that there are so many 350Z's out now that you have to modify it to have it stand out a bit which I did with mine, that is my 0.02

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I don't know about that...They built the new mustang's to emulate the older style and they are EVERYWHERE. I don't think I can drive a day without seeing 3 of them. You can say this is Ford building a car to cater to the older generation, or "imitate" an older model; although it seems to have worked out really well for them.

I personally wouldn't be caught dead buying one.

The S30 is highly identifiable to many people, mostly because everyone has either owned one; or known somebody who has owned one. This in turn makes them very attractable to other drivers and people in general. I think if they were able to produce a new model car that was like an updated 240, it would be very popular; the same way the Mustang is.

I think a redesigned S30 would appeal to the masses since the car's body itself is just very nice. This is where they (FORD) went wrong with the new mustangs. While they have similar body-features that is much like the classic, the car itself it bloated and plasticy in comparison to the original which was more sleek and seemed to have more curves. Just because American car companies do a crappy job at reinventing the past; doesn't mean it has to be that way for everyone.

They probably will never revisit the S30 body for the reasons Westpak listed, and i'm fine with that. It just makes all of ours more unique :)

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the mustang is different as they made a 19k model as well as up to 35k so you will see the 19k base model everywhere

the Challenger, and the Thunderbird previously, as examples only have a 42k model which is why I say it will have a short life span as soon as the baby boomer thirst is quenched

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In 1966 Ford had a hit with it's new Mustang. The new Mustang looks good (maybe not to everyone ;>) and is very identifiable as a Mustang. Has a performance to price ratio that's hard to beat (like in 66). What rear drive coupe can you buy for 20 grand that can touch it? They basically tried the same formula that they did in 66 and built the same car today. Ford is selling them as fast as they can make them. Nissan did in 1970 what Ford did in 1966. Can you say the 350Z is to the 240Z what the new Mustang is the old? The new Mustang is exactly the same car as the 66 model just 40 years newer. And that's why people love it.

Steve

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In 1966 Ford had a hit with it's new Mustang. The new Mustang looks good (maybe not to everyone ;>) and is very identifiable as a Mustang. Has a performance to price ratio that's hard to beat (like in 66). What rear drive coupe can you buy for 20 grand that can touch it? They basically tried the same formula that they did in 66 and built the same car today. Ford is selling them as fast as they can make them. Nissan did in 1970 what Ford did in 1966. Can you say the 350Z is to the 240Z what the new Mustang is the old? The new Mustang is exactly the same car as the 66 model just 40 years newer. And that's why people love it.

Steve

you can't compare the Mustang with the 350Z, a 20k mustang is a grocery getter at best. The weak V6 only puts out 210 horses and handles like crap while a 28k 350Z has 306 horses and handles great.

to even compare you would have to consider the V8 model which starts at 26k and still handles like crap compared to the 350Z

you guys really need to look at the 350Z and see what it offers for the money. 306 horses, almost 50/50 weight distribution, great handling, carbon fiber driveshaft, all providing better or close performance to much more expensive cars like the Porsche Boxster, 911, S2000 and others at the time it came out.

it is disappointing to see people not appreciate a 350Z for it being a Z and continuing the Z legacy, it gives good performance and features for the price when compared to other cars out

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Just my opinion here ( and we know what those are worth ), but no one is saying the 350 Z isn't a great car. But I have to agree that it doesn't really fit as a Z, in the classic sense. I mean think about 35 years from now is anyone going to pull a 350 out of a field or a barn a bring it back, I doubt it. But its not really nissan's fault. I work on cars everyday for a living and I can honestly say I don't see anything thats going to be around 30 years from now, everything is just plain cheap. Plastic intakes, cheesy interiors, and internal engine components designed to just barely get them out of warranty so you have to buy another one.

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...

you guys really need to look at the 350Z and see what it offers for the money. 306 horses, almost 50/50 weight distribution, great handling, carbon fiber driveshaft, all providing better or close performance to much more expensive cars like the Porsche Boxster, 911, S2000 and others at the time it came out.

it is disappointing to see people not appreciate a 350Z for it being a Z and continuing the Z legacy, it gives good performance and features for the price when compared to other cars out

I haven't heard anyone knock the technical aspects of the 350z(OK well the alignment issues it had early on, and its weight), my primary beef with it is that is just butt ugly to me. You are right, Nissan didn't design it for me, they designed it for their accountants-therein is the problem, the 240z was designed to be a world class car first (granted the economic climate it was designed in pretty much took care of the bean counters). I'll also grant you Nissan isn't even close to the same company it used to be-the view is no longer people centric, it is Dealership owner centric.

As disappointing as it may be "to see people not appreciate a 350Z for it being a Z and continuing the Z legacy" it is far more disappointing to see Nissan ignore the Z legacy and build and market a car that does not belong in it.

Will

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.........

As disappointing as it may be "to see people not appreciate a 350Z for it being a Z and continuing the Z legacy" it is far more disappointing to see Nissan ignore the Z legacy and build and market a car that does not belong in it.

Will

well you could say the same for the 300ZX (Z32) not fitting in, it is heavy and was extremely over overpriced so to put it all on the 350Z is just not right

it is hard to follow first hitter homerun, which the 240Z was in all aspects, all that follow will not measure up, so they have to be evaluated on their own merit

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I would agree-except the Z32 is (aside from being a beautiful car) exactly what Nissan advertised it to be. Nissan always painted the Z32 as a super car, and a worthy extension the Z lineage.

Nissan painted the 350Z as a new generation of the 240Z "sharing its DNA", "and that marketing lie is what makes my case. Look at all of the early 350Z marketing-it is all built on the lineage of the 240Z. If Nissan had sold the car on what it was, and not what came before it, they would not have gotten such a passionate response(I wouldn't have cared at all) Hopefully they have learned playing the lineage card in marketing has to hold up to a DNA test even for a chimera. Once again a father who has no resemblance to his son has to wonder about DNA.

Ebayers who take such poetic license in a description are branded bad-I get passionate about that too....

Will

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My opinion is that you just can't replace the classic 240Z/ Fairlady S30 Design.

New car's are all styled to much round curves in it. To much weight also, bec all of the modern features and materials... But in the end whe are forgetting what it is all about -> the driving experience.

For instance the 240Z is lighter than a VW Golf. Sportscars..must be lightweight...not a battle ship. Loose all the unnecessary crap.. put an all aluminium block in it. Still a straight six, with DOHC head for instance. What i should do is restart the making of the old 240Z body. With modern features...everything old improved. But keep the Retro things..like the wooden steeringwheel etc.

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I mean think about 35 years from now is anyone going to pull a 350 out of a field or a barn a bring it back, I doubt it. anything thats going to be around 30 years from now, everything is just plain cheap. Plastic intakes, cheesy interiors, and internal engine components designed to just barely get them out of warranty so you have to buy another one.

Yes, I agree with you.. I work as a mechanic to, but beeing a mechanic today is very different then it used to be. In the old days more effort was done and parts the normally at today''s standards will be trowen away and just simply put in a new one, where fixed. Today the costs are more important than what you deliver...

Today we live in the trow-away economy. And i think cars will get uglier and uglier, fuel economy and electronics will become more important. In the end..you don't have to drive by yourself anymore. :sick:

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I would agree-except the Z32 is (aside from being a beautiful car) exactly what Nissan advertised it to be. Nissan always painted the Z32 as a super car, and a worthy extension the Z lineage.

Nissan painted the 350Z as a new generation of the 240Z "sharing its DNA", "and that marketing lie is what makes my case. Look at all of the early 350Z marketing-it is all built on the lineage of the 240Z. If Nissan had sold the car on what it was, and not what came before it, they would not have gotten such a passionate response(I wouldn't have cared at all) Hopefully they have learned playing the lineage card in marketing has to hold up to a DNA test even for a chimera. Once again a father who has no resemblance to his son has to wonder about DNA.

Ebayers who take such poetic license in a description are branded bad-I get passionate about that too....

Will

Yes, that's the crux of the matter. The 350 should have been labeled ZX.

I'm not comparing the 350 and the Mustang. Compare old to new. The Mustang DNA is there. The 350Z, not so much. And don't compare 2003 350Z prices with 2008 Mustang prices. Apples to apples you can pick up a new V8 Mustang for about 10 grand less than a 370Z.

Steve

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I have owned zcars for 25 years or so and have also wanted for a modern car with the same sort of feel as an S30. The 350z does not do it for me though it seems to be a nice driving car. The closest thing I have found is the BMW z4 coupe. Similarities include layout, proportions, long hood, great inline 6 engine, simple controls, etc. Shortcomings include weight, cost, and mechanical complexity that is unavoidable with all modern cars.

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I just happend to catch this on youtube. I like the concept except for the exhaust on the back end. (fugly) The exhaust should be vented out behind the rear wheels (on the side) with a stealth style slotted vents. Oh.... and the exposed windshield wipers need to go under the hood.

:ninja:

Enjoy.

Edited by AggieZ

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That's more like it. By the time it was toned down for production I think it would suit my taste better. Definitely has the 240 profile going on. The front end, a little "boy racer" for me, would have to succumb to the realities of safety regulations but I bet something decent could come out of it.

Steve

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man that is awesome! the only thing I can say is lose the louvers in the back window, but besides that sign me up! Anyone here know somebody at Nissan? We need to get this thing built. (straight 6 and rear drive of course)

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the thing about that car is, the guy who rendered it, basically just used the old S30 body line's and modified that. Someone did an onion layer of an S30 profile over it, and it matched almost 100%

It looks nice, but it doesn't fix any of the problems with the old body, aerodynamic wise that is. I really want to see what the new 370z looks like. From the pictures I saw of the silver car, it looks very much like a new version of the S30

370z-temp.jpg

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