Unusual Kenmeri QLD

[HS30-H]

Another theory, (completely made up) .....

It was a monday morning at the factory, or a friday afternoon, and the guy pressing the numbers into the firewall panels messed up and forgot to reset the stamps back to KHGC after pressing up some GT-R firewalls.

Why couldn't nissan have made a whole bunch of stamped chassis (without outer panels), then when the GT-R wasn't selling in high numbers as they may have expected (ie. the oil price crisis etc. that caused the end of the GTR until the R32)(now i don't know if the GT-R's were a strictly numbered production run, ie. only 75 will be made type deal??), they converted the extra body's into run of the mill cars? to be sold as GTX's etc.... i would imagine that back in the 70's things like this could have happened (humans were in charge, and humans are prone to make interesting descisions), they were a far cry from the computer tracked manufacturing plants of today, where i agree.. this wouldn't happen..

I think the biggest problem with the theory that this VIN stamp could be a simple 'mistake' is that there would have been plenty of opportunities for the mistake to be discovered and action taken. First of these opportunities would have been the big QC check at the factory, and I can't imagine a car with a VIN prefix and spec that didn't match getting through to the stage where it received its first documents and paper 'identity' - let alone being sent out to a dealer and sold to an unsuspecting member of the general public. It would also set off all sorts of alarms as it progressed through the Japanese systems such as first registration ( GT-R was a different taxation category to GT and GT-X, for example ) and local parking permits ( again, GT-R was wider than GT and GT-X - so that would be picked up on ). Servicing at the local Nissan dealer would be another opportunity, and should the car have reached the age where it needed a 'shakken' ( Japanese roadworthiness inspection ) it would surely have been questioned. Lastly, when the car was exported from Japan to PNG the documentation would have been inspected - and a 'KPGC110' VIN prefix with an L20 engine rather than an S20 would have been noted and questioned ( I have personal experience of exporting from Japan, and they are very strict ).

Lots of 'ifs' there - but you have to admit the chance of it being a simple 'mistake' that got through all the nets seems remote.

The suggestion that Nissan might have 'used up' spare GT-R unibodies on other models also seems to be full of holes: First of all, Nissan didn't have a glut of unsold C110 GT-Rs that caused them to stop making them - they actually made the decision to pull the model because of what you could call 'political' pressure. That is, they didn't want to be seen to be producing such a high performance model during the very sensitive period of what the Japanese call the 'Oil Shock'. This is the same reason that caused Nissan to cancel the projected race programme for the C110 GT-R ( they only produced the two 'Image Cars' - which were standard road cars in drag, and aimed simply at sales hype for the whole C110 range ).

So there were not hundreds ( or thousands! ) of 'spare' bodyshells knocking around the factory, and even if there were you would have to imagine that Nissan would re-stamp / alter / rectify the VIN prefixes if they were going to be used on another model. The VIN prefix is a fundamental part of the identity of the car, and without the prefix being appropriate to the spec of the car the body serial number itself is meaningless. We should also bear in mind that a batch of 'KPGC110' VIN-prefixed cars that were not true GT-R models would also indirectly make a nonsense of the 197 real GT-Rs too.

So, on balance, I think it looks less likely that it would have been a simple 'mistake', or a case of an 'unused' bodyshell being re-assigned. Which leaves other possibilities.........

Having spent a bit of time with Ray, and having a good look at the car as well, I see it like this, it is a genuine 1973 Nissan Skyline GT-X. It was built as a GT-X and left the factory as a GT-X.

Well said. I came to the same conclusion without the benefit of being able to see the car in the metal, so I defer to your opinion at the same time as agreeing with you ( if that makes sense! ). The ONLY thing on the car that points to a 'GT-R' identity is the VIN prefix stamped on the firewall ( and not even the body serial number that follows it! ), so in my opinion it is slightly fanciful for some of us to suggest the 'GT-R' connection when all the other evidence against it is so strong.

Ray recognised it for what it was and saw the potential for a GT-R clone. Ray built it with a different philosophy to Lachlans(ALFADOG) approach, that is, how to imitate the GT-R mechanicals, was the primary objective with the cosmetics (bodywork, badges etc) being a secondary concern. Ray truly pioneered the retro engineering of the RB20 to resemble the S20. Prince Webers on a "Ray fabricated" manifold, a non functioning dissie and leads to add to the likeness to name two. The rear disc conversion is his as well.

Not wanting to cast aspersions here, but I feel that some of Ray's work on creating this "GT-R clone" is now clouding the issue with regard to its original identity. Things that Ray added or altered are being mistaken for factory spec. Maybe it would be more scholarly of us to think of the car in the spec it was before Ray's ownership when discussing matters of its true identity 'ex-factory'?

I remember Ray mentioning that he had an S20 engine that he was rebuilding, and that he was still "looking for some parts" for. I offered to help him with this ( I have a fair few spares knocking around ) but he didn't even tell me what he was looking for. To be brutally honest, I didn't actually believe he had one - but maybe I was just being overly sceptical?

Well, I'm sure the new owner will be happy to take questions and examine the car more closely to help sort things out

I must say, the new owner has ALWAYS been very open, honest, realistic and a stickler for accuracy in his online discussions of these cars. I have every confidence that he will get to the bottom of it, and tell it like it is. He will also most likely turn it into an absolute gem of a car. Good luck to him! :-)

Alan T.

[Mr Camouflage]

I must say, the new owner has ALWAYS been very open, honest, realistic and a stickler for accuracy in his online discussions of these cars. I have every confidence that he will get to the bottom of it, and tell it like it is. He will also most likely turn it into an absolute gem of a car. Good luck to him! :-)

Alan T.

Who's the new owner?

[aarc240]

It would also set off all sorts of alarms as it progressed through the Japanese systems such as first registration ( GT-R was a different taxation category to GT and GT-X, for example ) and local parking permits ( again, GT-R was wider than GT and GT-X - so that would be picked up on ). Servicing at the local Nissan dealer would be another opportunity, and should the car have reached the age where it needed a 'shakken' ( Japanese roadworthiness inspection ) it would surely have been questioned. Lastly, when the car was exported from Japan to PNG the documentation would have been inspected - and a 'KPGC110' VIN prefix with an L20 engine rather than an S20 would have been noted and questioned

Are you seriously trying to tell us that cars destined from Nissan works for overseas markets were registered in Japan first?? Pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells!

And that there is an EXPORT inspection that would detect that a car with paperwork matching the physical item wasn't the standard production car? Get real! The paperwork as provided by the MANUFACTURER is in and of itself documented evidence that it is 'standard'.

( I have personal experience of exporting from Japan, and they are very strict ).

As a PRIVATE CITIZEN and with used items, very different to a manufacturer of new product that brings in hard currency.

[HS30-H]

Are you seriously trying to tell us that cars destined from Nissan works for overseas markets were registered in Japan first?? Pull the other one, it plays Jingle Bells!

aarc240,

I'm not pulling any legs. I don't need to.

Who said this car was ever an official Export market model then? Do you know more about it than the rest of us? As far as I am aware, all the 'evidence' presented thus far ( including information and photos sent to me by the previous owner some years ago ) points to its spec as being that of a Japanese market version. The Japanese language servicing / maintenance advice stickers on the car ( which appear to have been there since new ) would appear to confirm that.

In which case it would most likely have been registered in Japan before being exported to PNG. The only other scenario I can imagine this car possibly fitting into is that of a 'Diplomatic Sales Office' car, where a car was purchased with certain taxes 'zero rated' via Nissan's DSO office in Ginza, and then exported for foreign use. Even then it would have to be inspected by Japanese Customs officials at the port of export, which would mean that the firewall VIN stamp and engine bay ID tag ( which would also give the engine type ) would be compared to the documentation presented for inspection. Unless of course you think it might have been 'smuggled' out of Japan as contraband goods?

And that there is an EXPORT inspection that would detect that a car with paperwork matching the physical item wasn't the standard production car? Get real! The paperwork as provided by the MANUFACTURER is in and of itself documented evidence that it is 'standard'.

You want me to "Get real"? Only a few posts back you wanted us to believe that ".... each ( Nissan ) body was sequentially numbered regardless of the prefix....."

I can hear the tune of 'Jingle bells' in the distance, .

As a PRIVATE CITIZEN and with used items, very different to a manufacturer of new product that brings in hard currency.

Talk about teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. Japanese imports and exports ( yes, occasionally including motor vehicles ) are part of my line of work. I can tell you a few interesting stories about Japanese customs inspections and paperwork mountains if you have a couple of weeks to spare.

I suggest you concentrate on the car that we are talking about here, and think about it a little bit more about the 'evidence' presented thus far ( weighing up all the possibilities - not ruling out skullduggery ) rather than trying to pick holes in common sense.

Alan T.

[Alfadog]

Aw, I missed all the fun.

I wish Brian all the best with this car.

By the way Alan, Ray is in Japan at the moment and I hear he is bringing back an S20 engine to put in his Prince...

Or maybe the Japanese won't let him take it out of the country.

[HS30-H]

By the way Alan, Ray is in Japan at the moment and I hear he is bringing back an S20 engine to put in his Prince...

Lachlan,

Funnily enough, I heard that he was there and was looking for certain things. One of the people he got in touch with is a friend of mine. Small world.

He plans an S20 in an S54? Give it a few years and there'll be a thread on here with us all arguing whether this was actually a 'development car' made by Nissan to test the S20 before the PGC10

So is he now 'catching up' with himself re the stories he told three years ago? Or maybe I'm just far too cynical?

Or maybe the Japanese won't let him take it out of the country.

Yeah, like all those 'Yakuza' who wanted me to chop off my little finger before I was allowed to buy a new distributor cap for my 'Australian' S20 :cheeky:

Honestly, some of the stuff that people come up with makes the mind positively boggle, doesn't it?..........

[g72s20]

Yeah, like all those 'Yakuza' who wanted me to chop off my little finger before I was allowed to buy a new distributor cap for my 'Australian' S20

...Mate, the GUMLEAF mafia has you in their sites for sneakin' OUR S20 from these fine shores to the ol' Dart!:bandit:

I still have some emails from Ray Broughton (East Keilor Wreckers....remember? Hmm?) regarding this heinous crime! He remembers it well!!

Any spare S20 cam covers? :love: .. I got an idea! (No, it didn't hurt either!)

[g72s20]

I think the story behind Rays S20 was it was a rebuilder available to him from a friend, but still in Japan.

[HS30-H]

...Mate, the GUMLEAF mafia has you in their sites for sneakin' OUR S20 from these fine shores to the ol' Dart!:bandit:

I still have some emails from Ray Broughton (East Keilor Wreckers....remember? Hmm?) regarding this heinous crime! He remembers it well!!

If that's the case, I'll have to watch out when I'm ordering a drink or meal at any London bar or restaurant.......... :paranoid:

But I'm not guilty on all charges! It wasn't me that got it from EKW, and it was sitting in a very dark shed here in south east England for thousands of years before I rescued it from being a fancy home for mice. At least it went to an honest home, and I must say it is looking fairly spiffy at the moment.

Any spare S20 cam covers? :love: .. I got an idea! (No, it didn't hurt either!)

Does the idea involve an RB20 head and a large can of Evo-Stik? If so, I might not have one 'available to me' at the moment........

[g72s20]

It wasn't you? Hmmm. Another piece to the puzzle. I originally thought " S20 to England = Alan Thomas, no brainer!!":geek:

Does the idea involve an RB20 head and a large can of Evo-Stik? If so, I might not have one 'available to me' at the moment........

How the hell did you pick that in one:ninja: It is something I would like to talk to you about at length though.

P.S. What's goin' on!! Now KATS is discussing ...S20 cam covers!!

[g72s20]

'available to me' at the moment........

...subtle squire, veerry subtleLOL

[Mr Camouflage]

EKW had an S20? Did they even know what it was? How much was it sold for?

Did someone score a bargain, or did they have to sell a kidney? Is that the S20 you have Alan?

So Ray's selling the C110 with the RB20 (with the fake dizzy) and putting an S20 in an S54? Seems like and odd character this Ray fella.

Speaking of S54's anybody hear on the grapevine what happened to the 2 that were for sale in Tassie.

Hmmm, S20 replica cam cover that bolts onto an RB20/25.......