Would you guys trust...

[Mat M]

...a national chain-type tire store for a 4 wheel alignment?

I have tried searching, but did not find a thread where this topic was discussed.

The Big-O tire store near my work will do a 4 wheel alignment for $90. Would you trust them with your baby?

Thanks in advance!

Mat

[jmortensen]

The only adjustment you've got is front toe Mat. Until you get some more adjustments, you should do it yourself.

[Arne]

Don't waste your money on a 4 wheel alignment. The S30s don't have any adjustments on the rear. Instead, ask for a "thrust-angle" alignment. That will still measure the rear and relate the front to it, but should be less money. It will still point out if something in the rear is wrong, too.

[jmortensen]

Actually now that I think of it that's not entirely true. You could shim some caster in.

But you don't need a 4 wheel alignment to do that, there are no adjustments in the rear, and all of your bushings are totally shot. You should replace them first, then see about an alignment.

[Mat M]

I had a feeling about that, that's why I asked. Jon, you are right about the bushings, but it will be a couple of weeks before I get the ES Poly bushing set. Until then, I didn't want to wear out my new tires. I am planning on driving the car this week until my truck gets back from the shop with new axle grease seals and front calipers.

I am concerned about the severe left pull under braking. There is a slight left pull when just driving. I have never played with a tie rod, or any suspension, for that matter. Do I just loosen a locknut and turn the tie rod end in a couple of turns? I guess I should do a search before posing this question...Off I go.

[Arne]

Severe left pull when braking is not the alignment. More likely to be either bad bushings in the front suspension, or a brake problem (right caliper not working). Or possibly a combination of the two.

I gather that your rear bushings are shot, if the fronts are bad as well don't waste you money on alignment until you get them replaced. The best alignment in the world can't help a worn out suspension.

[Mat M]

Then it's settled. I will wait till I can afford the Poly bushing set.

Thanks, guys.

I love you, man!

[=Enigma=]

Here's a couple of images to help you out. The first shows the tie rod end and the lock nut you'll need to loosen to make the adjustment.

The second explains how to determine the toe setting. While on the ground under it's own weigh, place marks on centerline of the front tire, both the forward and rearward facing portion of the tread. Then use a broom stick or something else you can make a mark on to measure the distance between the marks and do the math.

[montoya_fan01]

you must be VERY accurate when doing this. small discrepancies can affect how the car tracks and how the tires wear.

B E . P R E C I S E ! ! ! ! !

[jmortensen]

you must be VERY accurate when doing this. small discrepancies can affect how the car tracks and how the tires wear.

B E . P R E C I S E ! ! ! ! !

No it doesn't. Small discrepancies will affect whether or not the steering wheel is straight, but there is nothing you can do to the toe in front that will affect how the car tracks. In the front if you set the toe off to one side and drive down the road, the car goes straight and the steering wheel turns sideways. Toe changes in the REAR affect how the car tracks because there is no steering wheel to allow the wheels to drive straight. The wheels have the whole weight of the car trying to drive them as straight as they can go, if they can move to a straight forward position, they will. If you set the toe wrong in the back it stays wrong.

If you set the toe and your steering wheel is off to the left the fix is easy, what you need to do is steer the tie rods to the left. So basically you make the left tie rod longer and the right tie rod shorter until the wheel is straight. Usually this is not a problem though if you have a helper or maybe one and a half helpers in the car holding the wheel straight while you adjust the toe. When I was doing alignments we had a steering wheel holder that sat on the seat and basically jacked up against the bottom of the steering wheel. Set that sucker straight, set the toe to spec and it was good I'd say 95% of the time. Every once in a while I'd have to adjust the tie rods, and when that was necessary I'd just adjust both sides evenly. Takes VERY LITTLE tie rod change to affect the wheel position, BTW. I'd usually try like 1/8" movement on the tie rods and see what affect that had on the wheel. As long as you move the tie rods evenly the front toe setting won't change, but the wheel position will.

[montoya_fan01]

No it doesn't. Small discrepancies will affect whether or not the steering wheel is straight, but there is nothing you can do to the toe in front that will affect how the car tracks. In the front if you set the toe off to one side and drive down the road, the car goes straight and the steering wheel turns sideways. Toe changes in the REAR affect how the car tracks because there is no steering wheel to allow the wheels to drive straight. The wheels have the whole weight of the car trying to drive them as straight as they can go, if they can move to a straight forward position, they will. If you set the toe wrong in the back it stays wrong.

If you set the toe and your steering wheel is off to the left the fix is easy, what you need to do is steer the tie rods to the left. So basically you make the left tie rod longer and the right tie rod shorter until the wheel is straight. Usually this is not a problem though if you have a helper or maybe one and a half helpers in the car holding the wheel straight while you adjust the toe. When I was doing alignments we had a steering wheel holder that sat on the seat and basically jacked up against the bottom of the steering wheel. Set that sucker straight, set the toe to spec and it was good I'd say 95% of the time. Every once in a while I'd have to adjust the tie rods, and when that was necessary I'd just adjust both sides evenly. Takes VERY LITTLE tie rod change to affect the wheel position, BTW. I'd usually try like 1/8" movement on the tie rods and see what affect that had on the wheel. As long as you move the tie rods evenly the front toe setting won't change, but the wheel position will.

Interesting. A few years ago, I drove a friends car to an alignment shop 30 miles away from where we had replaced ball joints and tie-rod ends and after this 30 mile drive, the front tires were completely worn out (they had about 1/2 tread when we started out). We had attempted to get the adjustments close "by eye", but definitely didn't succeed. When we made turns, the car would veer sharply in one direction, and I had to fight the wheel to make turns in the other direction.

[jmortensen]

The steering hard in one direction and easy in the other was likely a caster problem. Caster is a non-wearing alignment angle. It will cause a pull, or will cause the car to steer differently in one direction or the other, but it won't wear your tires out. Over a very long period of time steering the car straight might wear the tires, but that would take a while. The tires were probably worn out by a bad toe setting, but were also probably worse than you realized before you left the house for the alignment shop.

I once got a "bad zero" on the alignment rack and ended up with over a degree of toe in on the back of my Z which is a HUGE amount of toe in (adjusted with G Machine bushings). I was running tires that had a 160 treadwear and I wore them out from brand spankin new to totally bald in about 1000 miles. Toe out will wear the tires faster than toe in, but you'd still have to have them severely toed out to wear them out in 30 miles.

Toe in the front is pretty easy to set. Most of the tires I buy have a center tread lug. I just hook a tape measure on the center tread lug front and rear and measure as high on the tire as I can without hitting the frame or the suspension with the tape. Do that front and back. Good street toe setting is 1/8" total toe in.

Move each tie rod evenly and have someone hold the wheel straight so that it remains straight after you adjust it. That's pretty much it.

As to the caster, there is a way to measure and adjust it with a bubble camber gauge, but I tried to do it myself once, showed 7 degrees on the bubble gauge but then when I put the car on the rack it was at 4 degrees. I think if you have a pair of slip plates you can do it fairly accurately with a bubble gauge, but you have to turn the wheels a certain amount and remeasure the camber, and without a slip plate it's hard to know how far you've turned them. When I did it I drew the angle on my garage floor with a protractor, but apparently that wasn't exact enough.

For Mat though I think the solution is in the new bushings. If one bushing has collapsed farther than the other over time that will make the caster less on the side that is more deteriorated. New bushings should fix that situation, and hopefully will get rid of his pull altogether.

One more thing Mat, use the poly bushing on the front of the TC rod, and use the old rubber bushing on the back end. That will allow the TC rod to still pivot fairly freely, and its the front bushing that takes all the load under braking, so you'll still have all the advantages of the stiffer poly bushings without overly stressing the TC rod.