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Everything posted by qz16

  1. Grannyknot – I also have tried to buff with a Dremel but had the same experience – melted part of the lens. I am going to go back sand the burned lens and see if I can get something I like using the clear coat. Thanks for the tip regarding the rubber. I have used the SEM clear, just out of it right now, and you’re right it is good, but I have not been disappointed with any of their products. Great results on your restoration of your plastic. Hard to believe that those old brittle pieces can be brought back to new – nice job. JFA – you’re a better man than I – I used a one inch wheel on a dremel and I still scared it. I think my biggest problem was the speed, had it turning to fast, but I just don’t have the touch to buff plastic, that’s why I try to avoid the runs and the orange peel, and when I can’t I develop my skill at rationalization. “Its only a side marker”, “No one will ever notice it” and so on. In the past I have always been shamed into buying a new lens. Once again, thanks for the responses. Regards, ron
  2. I saw somthing on the web that showed the restoration of a plastic lens. I think the youtube was done by chris fix. They did something I had not seen before - clear coating plastic – so I thought I would give it a try. Side marker lens' are fairly inexpensive and available so if I screwed it up or if it just flat out did not work it would not be a total disaster. My rear side markers were scratched and they were moderately oxidized. Unfortunately, I was so excited to try something new that I did not take a “before” picture. I did think of a picture after I had sanded the reflectors. Below is the image after wet sanding with #600, #1000, #1500, and #2000 grit. If you decide to do this you can skip the 1500 grit, its just not necessary for this type of project. After sanding I cleaned it with Eastwood Pre Prep. Then I sprayed an adhesion promoter for plastic (I am happy with the results that I get with SEM products (sand free), but there are others as well). I then sprayed clear using a VHT spray can that I had left over from another project. A couple of light coats and then 2 medium wet coats. The trick here is to try to get the clear to flow without causing any runs. If you do get a run or noticeable orange peel you can always sand it with #2000 grit, and polish and buff, or you can always start over with #600 grit, #1000, #2000 and re-clear. Anyway, below is an image of both reflectors with clear coat. You will have to trust me on this - the picture does not measure up to the actual result. The lens look like brand new. For some reason, lighting, reflections, who knows what the picture just does not measure up. One caution - do not touch the lens for at least 24 hours. The clear coat needs to cure (harden) before you handle it and definitely do not rush to assemble it. Of course, if a little is good why not do more – so I cleared a rubber gasket just to see if it would take the clear. The next image shows one gasket cleared and one without the clear coat. Normally I would not even try to paint rubber without the right product, but the gasket took the clear and it is a big improvement. If anyone has used a specific product line please let me know what adhesion promoter worked for you on rubber. I am amazed with the results. Now, I don’t know if any of the products that I used will ultimately do harm to the plastic reflectors or whether these results will hold up for any length of time, but at this point I would have to say the results were terrific without spending a great deal of time and without requiring a lot of technique, and with very little expense. Bottom line: I would certainly recommend this process. My expectation is that the clear will hold up over time and the only real danger to the plastic could be the adhesion promoter. Next time around I would leave out the adhesion promoter and only sand with the #600 grit and then clear. If that was not smooth enough perhaps sand with finer grit after the clear coat and then buff. Of course, I would like to hear from anyone that can tell me what the long term expectation should be and whether or not I should expect the lens to deteriorate. Hope this helps - good luck
  3. Thanks for the quick response. I like the idea of something hard to deflect the water. I wonder why Nissan didn't do that. Once I make up my mind I may come back to you to take advantage of your offer for a real one - thanks.
  4. I just completed the honda wiper motor upgrade thanks to Zs-ondabrain (knowledge base article) and to and to brandenz (atlanticz tech tip). My restoration is a 1973 240z. When I tore it down there was no boot/bag covering the original wiper motor. I believe you can buy the boot from Banzai for about $70. I also found someone quoting a Nissan part number 28836E4100. I do not know if this number is the real deal. Normal Nissan sites do not recognize this number, but I did find the following: https://parts.bayridgenissan.com/p/Nissan__/COVER---MOTOR/51241601/28836E4100.html. This is a dealer in Brooklyn, NY. Again, there is no image on their site and I do not know if it is really available or if it is really the cover for the wiper motor. The price is great $8.95. Has anyone bought this product from this dealer? Sorry for the long lead in. Is the bag/boot (plastic/vinyl) really needed. As best I can tell the bag is not totally sealed. I think there are holes for the motor shaft connection to the wiper linkage, and for the screws to mount the motor to its bracket. So, moisture can still get inside. I realize that the bag does protect the motor from water entering via the cowl. I know I am being lazy about acquiring the bag or making a replacement, and then installing it. Does anyone have any experience operating without the bag over a long period of time? As an alternative I was thinking about coating the motor to improve its resistance to water.
  5. az240, its true a picture is worth ..... thanks
  6. zup, cant thank you enough. i thought that is where it might go, but there is a support strap or bracket that mounts between the antenna body and the fender well and that also grounds the base. i am sure you are correct it probably is a good idea to ground the metal mast as quickly as possible. once again thank you.
  7. I have a 1973 240z that I am restoring. I am trying to re-install the factory electric antenna. It does work. Attached are two photos. The first attempts to show the mounting hardware in the order that I believe the various pieces should be assembled. I tried to show what is above and what is below the quarter panel. The second photo is of the assembled pieces. I believe that I have all of the pieces above the quarter panel. I have two questions: Am I missing any pieces? Just below the quarter panel I have what I believe is a grounding ring. It has prongs that are bent upward to contact the panel when everything is tightened. There is a stranded metal strap attached to the grounding ring with prongs and there is a mounting ring at the other end of the strap. What does this mounting ring attach to? Thanks in advance for your assistance.
  8. i built all new harness engine bay cockpit overhead and hatch. that's why i asked you about the fuel tank to gauge piece. obviously the old harness did not have it so i did not reproduce it, so i will have to add it. regards, q
  9. how completely stupid of me - I do have the access hole. The grommet is still there. Painted over by yours truly. I did not see it until I zoomed in on your picture and mine at the same time. Thanks very much.
  10. CanTechZ - The two pictures you sent are worth 1000 words. Thank you very much. I have a 1973 which in most regards is quite similar to your 70. Having said that I do not have the access hole in hatch area that appears in your picture.
  11. I am doing a complete restore and foolishly I installed the tail lights and the taillight panel without giving a thought to the license plate light. All of the interior trim is off because I am changing the color. Guess I was too in a rush to finally see some forward progress putting stuff on the car. Thanks for the quick reply.
  12. can someone please tell me what the path is for the license plate light. How do you route wires from the hatch area harness to the light? Do I have to remove the taillight finishing panel to see an access hole? thank you.
  13. paid the invoice for the lowers thanks
  14. Thanks for the reply. I did order the part. regards, ron
  15. Does anyone have a source for part #1 (upper quarter window seal) in the above diagram? This part is used on all 70-78 Z coupes. I have rebuilt both quarter windows - inner and outer seal and weather strip. I have door seals. But there are two additional pieces for the quarter window an upper and lower quarter window seal. The lower (small, rectangular) piece is available. None of the usual suspects (vintage rubber, precision rubber, thezstore,, zcardepot, zcarsource) have the upper seal. Thanks in advance.
  16. So, I thought it would be a good idea to update the thread regarding the change of interior color. I must admit that I was leery of changing the color of vinyl with a paint/dye. Our vinyl was in fairly good shape and it is quite expensive to replace all of the vinyl and plastic, so I thought it would certainly be worth a try. After a reasonable amount of research, I decided to use the SEM product line. I also decided for once in my life to strictly follow SEM’s process. I had two pieces of vinyl that were damaged through exposure to the sun. But even these pieces turned out well, and I do not think it was purely due to the fact that I was going from tan to black. I think the result would have been just as good if I repainted them in the tan color. Anyway, the result was truly amazing. Every vinyl piece came out looking brand new. It is nearly impossible to tell that they have undergone a restoration and a color change. Yes, there may be a seam that if pulled when installing might show the original color. I plan to touch up these spots after I install the interior. You can avoid this possibility by spraying the back of the material at least on the seams. I did have a spot or two where there are cuts/splits in the vinyl, and one very small hole. I simply took some black vinyl and superglued it on the back of the piece. I did this for two reasons: to reinforce the area so the cut/split did not grow and in case the material was pulled during installation it would merely expose the added black vinyl. Once these areas were painted, I could not spot them easily. The plastic trim was in relatively good shape considering that it is 45+ years old. One of my rear quarter pieces had been hacked up by a previous owner who was attempting some ridiculous change to the speaker areas using a machete. A replacement panel came with the car so I used that. A few other panels had chips where material was missing. These few areas were of the 1- 2 sq. in. category. Some panels had cracks, mostly at the edge of the panel, some minor and some more considerable, but all required attention or the crack would have continued to grow. I found a product called Q-Bond. It is an interesting process. For a crack I cut a “V” groove in the back of the plastic and cleaned the area around the crack. They give you what seems to be a graphite like powder. You sprinkle the powder into the grove. Since it is primarily the back I sprinkled it liberally around the groove as well. If the crack cannot be completely closed in the front of the panel you place a piece of tape on the front covering the cracked area. I used yellow tape that I have experience with from painting a car. It sticks well, but can easily be removed and has never damaged an area that I have used it on. The graphite like material can’t fall through the crack because of the tape. Q-Bond also provides what they call super-glue. Looks just like what you buy in the hardware store. You dribble a few drops on top of the graphite that is mounded on the back of the crack. It seeps in and sets up in less than 30 seconds. I gave it a few hours and then sanded the front of the panel to insure that the filling was level with the front surface. We painted the panel with the SEM product and where it was just a crack you could not tell that anything had been done. The crack line looked like it was part of the original pattern on the plastic. Where major repair was required, I used J_B weld to fill a missing area. The J-B weld patch as well as any other areas on the front of the panel that needed to be sanded were rendered flat with no grain. I tried scribing lines with a pin in some thin putty but this wound up looking like scratches. I have read about graining pads, but I think they perform better on vinyl/leather than a hard plastic panel. I decided to use a textured paint from SEM. This will not imitate grain, but I thought it would be better than leaving it flat. You don’t have a lot of control other than varying the distance of the nozzle from your work to produce less texture. I lightly sanded the texture and tried to blend it into the original grain. I then repainted the panel to get a consistent color. Its not perfect but if you are not looking for it you can’t spot it and the panel is repaired. Where I was missing a lot of material, I added some plastic pieces cut from the panel that I replaced. I super glued these to the back of the panel I was repairing and then used JB-Weld to bring the repair level with the rest of the panel’s surface. This also worked really well. Its strong, but it is ugly. Once again, I used the texture and sanded it and then painted the entire panel. It will not pass concourse inspection but it definitely is cheaper than replacing the panel, and it is a sound repair and it is another piece of authenticity - a 45 year old piece of trim that looks pretty good. As an example this is the vinyl that covers the rear shock tower. It has been cleaned with a mild soap, and Scrubbed with a gray scotch brite pad using SEM soap. You can see signs of fading from the sun. Here is one of the shock tower vinyl sections painted. Plastic panels - this is the interior overhead where the dome light mounts in the middle. I was amazed at how nicely the plastic and the vinyl cleaned up. This is one of the rear hatch area panels. It installs behind the rear wheel. It had some cracking and it also had a missing section around one of the mounting holes. The first picture shows all of the repair work - cracks at edges and the missing section around one of the mounting holes. The picture below show the panel after paint has been applied. You can see the patch area. The only issue with this panel is the total lack of grain in the repair area. It was noticeable and so I pushed on. Here is the my first crude attempt at trying to see if I could imprint some grain. This looks awful here but it was even worse when color was applied. The next picture is of the panel with everything having been sanded. It has the benefit of the texture paint having been applied, and color over that. The rest of the plastic and vinyl came out even better and I was very satisfied that we were able to save so much of the original car. Can't wait to see all of the vinyl and the trim panels go back in the car. Unfortunately, I completely rewired all of my electrical harness, and don't want to assemble the interior until after I test everything. Testing the harness is waiting on a new dash. Early on in the restoration I tried repairing the dash, but it crumbled and my total lack of expertise inspired me to try wrapping the skeleton with vinyl. Twice I thought I was going to get away with it but alas the speedometer and the tachometer wells could not be done by me to my satisfaction. I then searched for someone in need of some extra cash but every shop that I went to said that it was so difficult that they would have to charge enough to fund their son's first year at Harvard. Next step on the road to wasting a fortune was a full cap. I would have stuck with the cap, but this car is for my son, and I worried that the cap would not do well in the cold climate that he lives in. The overall restoration is coming out pretty good and to be honest the cap just didn't match what we were able to achieve with the rest of the car. I am currently on a wait list for a replacement dash pad. products that we used: 1. Gray Scotch Brite pads 2. Dawn dish soap 3. SEM Soap 4. Vinyl/leather prep or plastic Prep 5. SEM Sand Free (adhesion promoter) 6. SEM Color Coat Satin Black 7. Q-Bond 8. J-B Weld The following URL is valuable in terms of a reference for the SEM products that you will need and the overall process. https://www.semproducts.com/product/color-coattm-mixing-system/system#product-videos I suggest you watch the video. I also watched this video. Their humor is a bit tiring but I found it before the SEM youtube and it encouraged me to give it a try. episode 128 Dyeing Door Panels and dash pads Autorestomod. Bottom line: If you are thinking about refreshing your plastic interior trim or your vinyl – DO NOT hesitate The SEM process works, at least if you diligently follow their instructions. They have a complete line of colors and you can even mix a color to match something. If you have plastic that needs repair within reason you can successfully restore your plastic panel cracks with Q-Bond. I am sure that there are other products out there that work just as well but I have not tried them and because these have worked so well for me I probably will not experiment with anything else in the future. The one thing that I do want to try is grain imprinting using those grain pads. Hope this helps.
  17. qz16

    vintage dashes 280z

    First, I wanted to thank those of you that responded regarding vintage dashes and the 240z. I also wanted to give you an update. I was able to connect with the vintage dash people. They are for real. They have developed multiple products. They are different than many vendors that I have dealt with in the past, namely they are very serious about producing a quality product. They appear to be very ethical. They decided not to take deposits in advance, unless they had product on the shelf. Quite admirable when you think about it. For whatever reason they were having a manufacturing issue with their mold. What they described to me was (in my opinion) a couple of minor aesthetic flaws. They believe that this situation is resolved and expect to have 240 product within 4-5 weeks. They do keep a list of customers that have requested product. My understanding is that it is based on emails that they receive. I believe that originally they were requesting a deposit, but as I said earlier they stopped that practice. So if you contacted them by email you are apart of their request list even if you did not provide a deposit. My understanding is that in the very near future they will be reviewing this list and contacting customers to validate interest. "Whee" is correct - a little more patience will be required.
  18. qz16

    vintage dashes 280z

    thanks for the advice
  19. qz16

    vintage dashes 280z

    thanks for responding. what is the definition of placing an order? i have emailed and spoken by phone but they would not accept any money, not even a deposit. i am supposedly on a list, but no idea of how close that puts me to a dash. just getting frustrated.
  20. qz16

    vintage dashes 280z

    Does anyone have a solid understanding of whether or not vintage dashes is a real business? I have been trying to get a 240z dash since 9/13/18. My understanding is that these are stand-up guys that can be trusted. They supposedly produce a good quality product, but they do not make it easy to understand when they might be able to provide it. If anyone has any information I would certainly appreciate it. If it is not available then I need to go in a different direction with my project. I understand that they are now making progress on supplying a 280z version, have they given up on the 240z? Thanks for your assistance
  21. I was asked to regenerate the parts list order/s required for the install of the vintage air mini gen II. Below is the information for the mock-up box that vintage air loans out to help customers understand the size of the package that has to be installed inside the car. It helps you understand where to put the evaporator and hose connections. I cotacted vintage air and this was the info that they gave me. I decided that in my case it would not be necessary to actually mock-up the install. I was confident that I could get everything to fit based on other installs that I had read about. I would add that vintage air was responsive and helpful. “The shipping box measures 26 x 20 x 20. The evaporator assembly measures 11" high by 11.5" wide x 8.5" deep and will sit up against the firewall and a small portion of the bottom of the unit will sit down below the bottom of the dash. You would see about 2" to 3" of the bottom of the case. The switch kit we have for this system is separate from the original and can be placed under the steering wheel or in the console out of site. You can go to our web site at autoacsolutions.com and to to instructions for more on installation of the system. Click onto our indash a/c instructions. If we can be of more assistance let me know. I will be working messages off and on through the weekend and will try to answer as soon as possible.” The only disappointment that I had with Vintage air was that they could make it a great deal easier to order a complete system. I would suggest that they spend some time reading some of the different popular forums searching for reasonably good installs and create a parts list for some of the popular classic installs. Obviously, it would be nice to place a single perfect order that contains everything you would need. I have been able to do this a couple of times. Sadly, this was not one of those times. Below is the first order that I placed. The error of my ways is immediately apparent: I did not use the Horizontal slide panel. I did use the York to sanden conversion bracket – but I have heard that there are better solutions out there. I used vintage air’s ez-clip kit. I also purchased their plier which I think is well worth the expense. It was easy to use. It allowed me to create the customized hose routing that I wanted. I am still in the throws of restoring my car so I do not have any experience with the quality of this connection system, but I have high hopes that it will not leak. I liked the idea of using the bulkhead connectors and so I bought two. One for the AC hoses and one for the heater hoses. If I had to do it again, I might separate the hoses a bit more; just to make it easier to connect the hoses. The bottom line is don’t get ahead of yourself. Order what you need. As best I could tell there is no discount for larger orders with the exception of shipping cost. 66005-VUZ-A MINI GEN II W/DEF EA 1.00 0.00 470.00 470.00 main unit (heater/def/AC) inside car 49110-SHQ HORIZ SLIDE PANEL (MACHINED) EA 1.00 0.00 75.00 75.00 slide controls 63375-VUE DEFROSTER DUCTS (SET) EA 1.00 0.00 19.95 19.95 04808-VUQ SD-508 POL COMP O-RING 134a EA 1.00 0.00 249.00 249.00 compressor 15815-VUB YORK TO SANDEN CONVERSION KIT EA 1.00 0.00 60.00 60.00 conversion bracket to mount compressor 547002 HOSE KIT,E-Z CLIP UNIVERSAL EA 1.00 0.00 360.00 360.00 clip kit (hoses+connectors) 420000-VUR EZ CLIP PLIERS EA 1.00 0.00 78.00 78.00 tool to install ez-clips 07323-VUC DRIER W/TRINARY SWITCH EA 1.00 0.00 59.00 59.00 drier 389602 STRM 2 WAY INLINE BKHD #6-#10 BLK EA 1.00 0.00 44.00 44.00 bulkhead connector /bracket (AC) 389803 STRM 2 WAY INLINE BKHD #10-#10 BLK EA 1.00 0.00 44.00 44.00 bulkhead connector / bracket (water inlet/egress for heater) 03263-VUC PARALLEL FLOW COND 14 X 24 W/BRKTS EA 1.00 0.00 149.00 149.00 condenser (to cool air before drier and return to evap) My second order was just foolish. Do not order hose connectors until you really understand your hose routing. In my opinion this is not possible until everything else is installed. With regards to the connections inside the car. My install works but, it would have been a lot easier for me if I had realized how little room there is in the cockpit. If you understand how difficult it is to make bends with these hoses and how much room you need to actually tighten the connectors then placement of the bulkhead connectors can be improved. This influences the selection of connector style (90 deg., 45 deg. straight, etc) I ordered a number of incorrect connectors. 347160-VUR EZ CLIP #6 STRAIGHT EA 4.00 0.00 17.00 68.00 AC and water connectors 347100-VUR EZ CLIP #10 STRAIGHT EA 1.00 0.00 19.10 19.10 347200-VUR EZ CLIP #10 45 DEGREE EA 1.00 0.00 24.50 24.50 347180-VUR EZ CLIP #8 STRAIGHT EA 4.00 0.00 16.00 64.00 347380-VUR EZ CLIP #8 90 DEGREE EA 2.00 0.00 18.25 36.50 318000-VUR EZ CLIP AC HOSE #10 PER FOOT FT 8.00 0.00 5.75 46.00 347962-VUR EZ CLIP #6 CLIP EA 8.00 0.00 0.60 4.80 347960-VUR CLIP #6 CAGE EA 4.00 0.00 1.05 4.20 347902-VUR EZ CLIP #10 CLIP EA 4.00 0.00 0.65 2.60 347900-VUR CLIP #10 CAGE EA 2.00 0.00 1.40 2.80 347982-VUR EZ CLIP #8 CLIP EA 12.00 0.00 0.60 7.20 347980-VUR CLIP #8 CAGE EA 6.00 0.00 1.15 6.90 Third order: 347260-VUR EZ CLIP #6 45 DEGREE EA 1.00 0.00 20.00 20.00 more AC /water connectors and clips 347300-VUR EZ CLIP #10 90 DEGREE EA 2.00 0.00 19.75 39.50 347900-VUR CLIP #10 CAGE EA 2.00 0.00 1.40 2.80 347902-VUR EZ CLIP #10 CLIP EA 8.00 0.00 0.65 5.20 347960-VUR CLIP #6 CAGE EA 1.00 0.00 1.05 1.05 347962-VUR EZ CLIP #6 CLIP EA 2.00 0.00 0.60 1.20 121018 HARDLINE 90 HEATER FITTING EA 2.00 0.00 7.00 14.00 121004 HARDLINE STR HEATER FITTING EA 2.00 0.00 7.00 14.00 The final order that I placed was for controls so that I could use the original 240z climate control panel. 11458-VUS SWITCH 3 SPEED BLOWER ROTARY EA 1.00 0.00 11.25 11.25 knobs I needed to use orig. 240z control panel 49457-VUI KNOB CONTROL (ROTARY) EA 1.00 0.00 1.50 1.50 20558-VUP LABEL BLOWER SWITCH EA 1.00 0.00 3.00 3.00 I know some of you will be interested in the total cost of the install. I made a few mistakes that were somewhat costly. And the total cost of these orders also includes the EZ-clip system and plier and extra parts. So, if you add all of the figures the total is approximately $2154. I would estimate that there is approximately $300 worth of material that I did not need or use (panel, bracket, hose connectors ..etc) There is a $75 plier. I did not calculate the additional charge for the ez-clip system. The reason I bring this up is to be fair to vintage air regarding cost. If you compare the price of their system to another vendor make sure that you are comparing equivalent systems. Given the additional information/experience that I have at this point I would make the same choice and go with Vintage Air. I hope this helps and if you have a question, I will try to answer it.
  22. Patcon, thanks for the comment - I am not trying to be coy its just that sometimes on forums the topic at hand morphs into commentary on who likes what manufacturer. Anyway, I did not know what to buy and decided to go with a brand that I have used before. My base and clear coat are PPG deltron, very pricey stuff - not sure if it is worth it or not. For the epoxy primer I went with PPG OMNI MP 17x series. I have read and seen a number of complaints and stories about difficult to spray, gummy, etc. I have nothing but good things to say about the product but that is not based on a ton of experience. It sprayed great, It looks fabulous - but it is primer. No orange peel, no problems with gassing off too slow or too fast. It appears to be somewhat self leveling. I put two coats on. My primer gun is an air gunsa AZ3 with 1.8 HTE tip. Sometimes people blame the product when it is a skill issue, or equipment issue, or setup issue. I'm at the point that its just easier to blame me. I have heard good things about Nason products. Based on your comment that you sand everything I assume you are using an etching product or a water based product like rust dissolver. I think you are correct as long as you wash down the panel and dry them thoroughly the chemicals work great. I have come to the conclusion that the only time to use rust converter type products is for place you just cant get to very easily, like the bowel of a rocker panel, or into the fold of a fender. And in these types of situations it is more of a wing and a prayer for areas that you cant see the rust. This morning I tore into a fender that I had used rust converter on a year ago. I did this because I saw a pinhole in what was good metal a year ago. I kept hacking away trying to get to clean metal and what I found was that the converter had worked on one piece but a second piece that was sandwiched to it showed no sign of reform. The rust was fresh and active. So today I am less of a fan of rust reformer/converter than I was 48 hours ago. I am just a DIY guy and so it is a bit of a production to switch from mechanical work to bodywork to paint, so like you I am not able to put paint on the same day that something gets stripped, unless I was going to rattle can it. I am not sure what is best - to use the etch and let it dry to protect the piece until you can get to it or to deal with the rust if you are unlucky and it does form. I have very little control over the climate in my garage, so I will not spray below about 55 deg. and never even tried above 40% humidity. I am lucky though I live in phoenix so temperature and humidity favor me most of the year. Biggest problem I have is very quick drying when the temps are high. Turns out that most of the time when I do something foolish I just need to lick my wounds, the right answer to my mistakes rarely turns out to be an easy or quick solution. But I will not make this one again. Once again, thanks for the response. regards, ron
  23. granyknot - thanks for the quick response. I am using Rustoleum Rust reformer. I am also using eastwood rust dissolver which is water based. it is especially useful on pitted areas. I scrub it in with a scotchbrite, wire wheel it, apply pre prep, and dry it. I have used eastwood fast etch, but try to stay away from it as much as possible. As I understand it etching chemicals are stronger, but can only be applied on bare metal. This limits their use in my garage. Even when I have the right situations I always attempt to use the rust dissolver first. I also use eastwood pre prep for wash down and dry with compressed air before I prime a panel. I really like the eastwood products that I have tried. Sometimes their stuff seems a bit pricey, but I have found it to be high quality. The only thing that bugs me with Eastwood is that it takes forever for them to process, ship and deliver. All of the coatings (paints/primers) that I am using are 2k. I have used gel type strippers, but have not used any gel type rust removers or gel type etching products. I know about the chalk like powder. Have not seen it happen all that much. Good advice - thank you.
  24. I did a foolish thing! Background: Most of the car has been taken to bare metal. The rear clip is painted. So, I am in the process of doing the final prep work to paint the remainder – fenders, doors, hatch, hood, etc. I was trying to finish some of the remaining pieces, but you know how it goes. Every time I passed a door I saw something else, a tinge of rust color I thought, a place that would benefit from a little bit of filler. I just would not let it go. One of my favorite saying is that the enemy of good is better. Unfortunately, I can remember it but I am still unable to practice the sentiment. My total experience spraying is limited to 1.5 cars, an MGB which came out fairly nice and the z which is turning out even better. I have no experience with Epoxy primers, or Etching primers. Fast forward based on what I have read I decided that I did not see the benefit of applying an etching primer. On the other hand, the corrosion resistance and the concrete separation between anything below it and what would be laid on top of it was attractive to me. So, my plan for the remainder of the car was to continue doing most of my body filler work on bare metal, and to apply an epoxy primer. This would be followed by a Urethane (high build) primer, base coat and clear. Of course, there would be the appropriate amount of block sanding between spray layers. Now I promise to TRY not to be sensitive. I really do want to learn, so don’t hold back if I say something less than brilliant please do not hesitate to point it out. My understanding is that Rust is bad. It should be completely eliminated before any primer/paint goes on the car. That’s why we took most of the bucket to bare metal. Having said that there are places that you just can’t get to, or just don’t want to because the risk vs. reward is just not balanced in your favor. So, there are places where I have (dare, I say it) sprayed rust reformer or converter. I’ll give you an example – the front of the door was taken completely down to bare metal. The back of the door - not so much. It was sanded, and when I got to the edge of the door skin that wraps around to the back I wire wheeled them. This revealed some pitting and some superficial rust. On the door skin I removed the rust with Eastwood rust dissolver, a very good product in my opinion. But on the rust on the frame of the door I used rust converter. Now I know you are thinking that this was a rookie error. However, if I were going to do the perfect job then I would need to remove the skin from the door to make sure that there was no rust behind the skin, but I know that this task is beyond my skill level, sure I could get the skin off but could I get it back on the door in as good a shape as it is now? So, using rust converter was small potatoes given that I was not going to remove the skin. Also, to be honest, the car is 45 years old it was obviously mistreated at one point in its life and the rust that I am seeing is fairly superficial so I think it is a reasonable bet that these doors will last a long time given the level of care that I am applying to the car. I apologize if this is boring you, but here comes the punchline – I believe in the notion that if I can see rust then there is always some that I can’t see, and I can’t deal with anything that I can’t see. So, I foolishly spray converter into the door frame, it will not do much good but it makes me feel better, it wont in my opinion do much harm either. But now I have the darn can in my hand and I go one step farther. I spray it on the entire back of the door, and since that was such a good idea, I spray it on the back of my fenders, and the back of the headlight coves (I think they are called that). By the way before I sprayed the rust converter I roughed all of the surfaces with 80 grit. Everything looks good. It looks uniform. If there’s any rust I converted it – hell if the rust were English Pounds I would have converted those pounds into a million U.S. Dollars. Now everything is drying and I start thinking. Then I start reading. And now I start worrying. I am totally confused by what I have read. I know that I should not cover rust with epoxy primer, and to my knowledge when I spray the epoxy I will not be covering any rust. The question is can I spray epoxy primer over rust converter? So, I decide that the damage has already been done and I need to do some experimenting. I don’t have to spray the epoxy on the back of the fender so this will test whether I can properly spray epoxy primer on bare metal, and body filler. My inspection doors have body filler on the top side, but nothing on the back side. So, this will show if I can properly spray epoxy on just bare metal (the backside). The headlight coves – I decide to spray epoxy on the top and backside. This will give me some insight into what happens when you cover rust converter with epoxy. In this particular case below the rust converter on the back of the cove there is rust free bare metal ( they were sand blasted), which I then sprayed rust converter on. Now as I have come to understand it epoxy primer sprayed over rust converter will cause the primer to lift. So, my foolish mistake is that I thought the rust converter would not hurt anything and it might help prevent future rust from forming. This in my opinion (now) really was stupid. Conclusion: All of the pieces that I sprayed turned out great. The epoxy has been on for approximately 4 days at this point, I think that is somewhat important because most epoxy primers have an open window of 72 hours.. The fender with the mix of filler and bare metal – sure you can see where the filler is but the epoxy went on fine as it should and the filler will certainly be covered by the high build urethane that follows. – so, no harm no foul. The inspection doors same thing no issue on either side. The headlight coves came out perfect. The epoxy covered the rust converter – you would never know that there was any converter applied. So, I called the Rustoleum company and spoke with one of their specialists. They in no uncertain terms told me that you definitely should not cover any rust with epoxy primers. Furthermore, you should not cover their rust converter with an epoxy primer. I asked if that meant that I needed to sand off all the converter. I was informed that would not be necessary. Rustoleum makes a product (a shock) called clean metal primer. It could be applied over the converter and either urethane primer or base color could be sprayed on top of the clean metal primer. So, I know that you will be glad to hear that this tale is almost ended. My question to anyone with direct experience: a. If you rough the surface (covered with rust converter) with 80 grit can you spray Epoxy primer over it or will it lift over time? b. Is there anything (other than rust) that you should not spray epoxy over? c. The epoxy primers that I have looked at all say that you can spray them on bare metal, properly prepared paint, body filler ...etc. If epoxy primers require a mechanical bond and you rough with 80 grit why can't you apply epoxy over just about anything. I purposely have not mentioned which epoxy primer I am using as I do not want to get into a discussion of which primer is better than another. If you do like one better than another please mention it. As always thanks for your patience and for sharing your knowledge.
  25. This forum has been very helpful to me. As a means of documenting some of what we have done and to help others avoid some of my mistakes I thought I would post the installation of a vintage gen II mini AC system. Background: My son and I are restoring a 1973 240z. We call it the bucket, as there was a significant amount of rust that had to be dealt with and our other choice – Money Pit was already taken. We are changing the color from 113 avocado green to mango orange, it has an L-28 engine and a 5 speed gear box. At this point: the car was taken to bare metal, metal replaced where required and any rust has been eliminated the rear clip is painted, front and rear suspension has been restored/upgraded and installed brake system has been restored/upgraded and installed half axles, differential, driveshaft, transmission, engine have been restored/upgraded and installed fuel system has been restored and is installed cooling system has been restored/upgraded and installed electrical harness has been restored/upgraded and the cockpit harness is installed When we purchased the car, it did have a non-working aftermarket AC system, probably installed at the dealership. We decided to replace the AC, defrost, and heater with an integrated system from Vintage Air. Vintage Air recommended a Gen II Mini The Gen II is a replacement for the original heater core, air box, and under-dash AC evap. As you can imagine the gen ii is quite a bit smaller than the original components, but it is a universal system and therefore it needs to be shoe horned into a space under the original dash. Because I removed so much original material, I thought that I would be able to fit the combination evaporator/heater and air box above the transmission tunnel and behind the instrument panel. This gets it away from the passenger footwell and centers the defrost and climate openings. I found someone that had done something similar so I was fairly confident that I would not have a fitment issue with the dash. Brackets are provided with the Gen II but I did not find them to be particularly useful. Mounting is fairly straightforward, but if you are like me sometimes it takes a few proto-types to get something that satisfies you. Mounting the Evaporator Once the evaporator is in place you can decide where hoses need to enter/exit the firewall. It is always nice to use the original holes, but you need to consider the radius of the bends for the hoses as they do not like to make sharp turns. I decided to install bulkheads for both the AC hoses and the heater hoses. I like this luxury because if the engine has to come out or if anything goes wrong with the evaporator/heater then disassembly stops at the firewall. Also if any of the hoses fail you don’t have to disconnect at the evaporator to replace an engine bay hose and vice versa. Working these stiff hoses and close connections under the dash is not the most comfortable task, The only downside that I can think of regarding bulkhead connections is that there are additional breaks in the hoses that now require some sort of mechanical connection and this is yet another opportunity for a leak. I did not have to cut any additional holes in the firewall but I would recommend that you buy individual bulkhead connectors as opposed to 2-way or 4-way bulkheads. This probably makes it easier to use the original holes. Bulkhead Connections water connections are behind the evap, compressor connections are near the main harness entry. Those are EZ-coils fitted on the hoses to help keep them from collapsing due to a sharp radius you can see the water connections on the passenger side of the engine just below the level of the valve cover. Compressor lines enter the bay just above the passenger frame rail. I would have preferred to do all of the hose routing with the engine out of the way, but I was concerned that I could not visualize every aspect. The AC compressor is a bit of a chore to mount so I will do that while the engine is on a stand. Here is what is being replaced – a Nissan bracket, and a sanden compressor. The original compressor is much lighter than most that were used in the day like York, but the original combination still weighs 24 lbs. Original Bracket and Compressor I tried to use the original bracket. Even though it is heavy and bulky it is clearly better because the compressor can be mounted so that it does not have to move to install a v-belt. There is an integral idler pulley that is adjustable. I spent valuable time cleaning the bracket and the pulley in preparation for painting, but alas I could not figure out a good way to modify it to accept the new compressor and properly align it with the engine pulley. The bracket that I purchased from Vintage is simple (no idler pulley) but it is made to convert a York bracket. Unfortunately, it does not line up with the bucket’s pulley. So my choices were to somehow modify the simple bracket or build a new bracket. I decided to attempt a mechanical solution as opposed to modifying the bracket by welding a piece on. The problem really has two pieces: the compressor must align with the engine pulley and because there is no Idler pulley it must rotate to install and adjust the v-belt. Here is what I came up with. It is 9lbs lighter. I will continue to look for a more elegant solution with an idler pulley, but I need to get the engine back in the car. NEW AC Bracket and Compressor With the engine and radiator in place it is an easy task to route the Compressor hoses to the bulkhead. Vintage offers a connect system called “easy clip”. I have not used this before but it allows me to construct all of the hoses myself without the usual expense of a crimping tool. This will make start-up of the AC system much simpler, because I will be able to go to a shop and only require evacuation, drying and filling to get the system working. This should take about an hour as opposed to waiting for someone to construct the crimp hoses and depend on someone else to route the hoses to my satisfaction. Hopefully, the easy clip system works well and does not leak. Condenser The condenser and drier were both part of the gen II kit. Bracketing the condenser was fairly easy. You need to take into account the holes in the radiator support as the hose that sources the drier must go through the support. It would have been nice to mount the drier ahead of the support where the air is coolest but it was more convenient for me to put it on the engine side. I converted to an aluminum radiator with an electric fan so I installed a trinary switch on the drier. So, the routing of the hoses is: Evap to Comp, Comp to condenser, condenser to drier and drier back to the evap. The route that I took was evap across the firewall to the comp mounted driver side low, from the compressor thru the radiator support across the condenser to a connection on the passenger side of the condenser from the condenser thru the radiator support to the drier, from the drier along the passenger frame rail to the firewall to the evap. That is a 2 row aluminum radiator painted black with a dual electric fan setup. I still think that it is strange to use a 2 row, but based on what I read I convinced myself that 2 rows were actually better than 3 or 4 for the same overall length and width. The condenser is visible here - in front of the radiator Climate Control Panel The last piece of the puzzle – mounting the controls. When this project began, I had no idea what I was going to do with regard to the climate control panel. Trust me this restoration has had enough challenges, but I wanted the controls to look they were part of the car. Originally, I envisioned the new panel hidden behind the original panel with mechanical linkages to control the system. I ordered a panel from vintage air, their least expensive. It allows for 4 slide type controls: AC compressor on/off combined with AC temperature control, Heater temperature control, Fan speed control, and Mode (defrost, feet, body, body+feet) control. Now that I have good handle on the mounting of the evaporator and know that the dash will fit without interfering with the evap I can consider using the original Datsun climate control panel which had the original mechanical controls for the vent, heater and defroster. The bucket had an aftermarket AC system, but it did not have anything integrated so the compressor control and the AC temperature control were all hung external to the dash. The Datsun climate control panel accommodates three slide controls: outside air, heater temperature, mode (defrost, feet, body, body+feet) control; and a rotary fan speed control. The controls for the original AC system were appended to the dash and did not compliment the look and feel of the car. The original climate control panel and the vintage air panel I decided that I was going to attempt to integrate the vintage air controls into the 240z panel. My control panel was not in very good shape so I decided to use it to trial fit everything. I opted for the luxury of replacing my panel with a new one. MSA does make one – it’s approximately $130. Its plastic, well built, but nothing special. They have a slightly more expensive version with chrome accents – I was not smart enough to order that version, so I spent more to have the fun of trying to do chrome accents myself. The first obvious difference between the original and the vintage controls is the fan control. I ordered a rotary fan switch from vintage air to replace the slider that I originally purchased. The hole in the 240z panel must be opened a bit to accommodate the vintage air control. If you go this route, remember to be careful as you are working with plastic, so cracking is a real possibility. Next, I removed each of the slide switches from the vintage air panel. In my opinion the best/easiest way to integrate them into the 240z panel was to create an intermediate metal panel to house the vintage air controls and then mount the intermediate panel onto the 240z plastic panel. The metal panel should help distribute the forces of the sliders and will allow me to more easily position the sliders where I need them. It’s not as easy as it sounds. The travel of the vintage air sliders is quite a bit smaller than the original 240z controls. I considered mounting the sliders a few inches back from the 240z panel which would make the slider travel more similar to the original but it complicated everything else so I rejected the idea. The length of the vintage air slider mechanisms is also different than the original 240z controls. The vintage air heater temperature control is a bit hooky in my opinion. It is mounted to the vintage air panel by being squeezed by their bracket. There is no provision to screw it to a panel. It’s quite small. I used thin aluminum sheet stock to build trial configurations. It’s easy to bend and easy to cut and you can expose a lot of issues very quickly by using a proto-typing process. The AC control is relatively large. I decided to fit it into the top slot of the plastic panel labeled “AIR”. In my opinion - this is where it fits best. You can mount it without a lot of difficulty with one exception – the length of the slide control is too short. If you choose to go this route don’t purchase the vintage air panel (it’s a waste of money), and when you order the controls make sure that they provide full length sliders. When they build a kit with their panel, they cut the sliders to fit their panel and it is too short for the Datsun panel. I very carefully bent the L shaped bracket flat. I then removed enough material from the bracket to allow the slider to protrude through the plastic panel enough so that I could attach a plastic knob to it. I wanted to use the original 240z knobs to help disguise the vintage air system. One of my knobs was cracked and so I searched for a replacement. I found some new ones at Banzai Motor Works that were reasonable. The heater temperature control will fit just below the AC control. I built a small aluminum bracket that pinches the heater control and attaches to the climate control panel. Lateral movement of the heater control is prevented by the aluminum bracket and vertical movement is prohibited because the heater control is held in place by the ac control above it. The mode control will fit in the climate control panel’s third (lowest) slot. Here is an image of the original control panel with all of the controls mounted to it. Also, you need to seal off the cowl vent because there is no provision for the vintage air system to utilize that vent. The only fresh air vent system that you will have will come from the vents on the driver and passenger side which are controlled by individual mechanical cables. These vents actually get their air thru the ducts to the opening in the radiator support. The bottom line is that the original 240Z panel will remain in-tact and the new system will seamlessly fit behind it. You will not be able to tell that the entire climate system has been upgraded. vintage air controls Integrated Panel CONCLUSION If you choose to upgrade your AC system and you opt to integrate the controls into the original climate control panel you can benefit from my mistakes. Do not order the panel/control kit. Instead order the individual switches with full length sliders. Make sure that you order the rotary fan control and not the slide fan control switch. In the spirit of full disclosure I have not fired-up the AC system yet. Having said that, based on previous experience I believe that Vintage Air has done a great job providing a terrific system with more than adequate documentation. I especially like the reduction in physical size and weight. I also like the electronic controls as opposed to mechanical – cable stretch and loose cable connections are a thing of the past. I appreciated being able to make my own compressor hoses (hope they are solid and do not leak). I do wish that they would come up with a universal compressor mount with an idler pulley. All in all, it is a great system. It takes a fair amount of time and effort to install, but I believe you will be happy with the result. I will try to answer any questions that you might have. Good Luck.
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