Dave WM

finally something new to report.. there are 3 wires from the distributer, to small rings and one large ring. I have been connecting one small and one large, tried today, same thing struggle to start chug chug etc... so I connected the 2 small rings, started right up with normal sound, no chug. tried the other small and the large in the past but never just the 2 smalls. would throttle up etc.. and this is with the WTS hooked up as it should be. I had to stop for work, did not want to run it un attended. The ign module I am using did not have the setup for the multiple inputs from the distributer. I just had assumed it was a large ring and a small ring. will try it again from a cold start later with the current setup.

thanks CO, I am just grasping at straws. I cant get my head around why the plugs foul so quickly, yet leaning the mix via the pot in place of the WTS causes the engine to run more poorly. I am going to try it again and just let it run out of gas (2 gallons). the chug chug chug throttle up catch and run normal is really odd to me. The best running resistance was about 2.5k even after warm up. If the injectors were dirty or partly clogged needing the richer mix, how could I get such obvious fouling? Next run will include a color tune plug installed as well.

more progress. hooked up the fuel pump to the fuel pump relay, getting rid of the power strip to clean up the wiring. Alt is working fine 14-15v, so no more dead battery and good voltage supply for everything else. It pretty much will fire right up, then chug chug very loud. Throttle it up and down until it catches and the idle shoots up, runs smoothly and seems fine (also MUCH quieter), will run like that for a long time (smooth). I can make it start chugging again IIRC it was a combo of altering timing and resistance of the WTS and idle screw then it will drop down in rpm and resume chugging (sometime with a backfire out of the tail pipe as well). I am starting to think its a low idle timing issue/ignition issue, so next up will be the timing light. I wonder if it could be a weak spark at low RPM? one thing I noticed on the bench was there was a critical speed the distributer needed to spin to fire the coil. Like the signal from pickup was too weak, spin it faster and all was ok. Perhaps ZH resistor may come into play here.

yep, CO that was my thinking, I kept reading about the importance of grounds, being I had none I wanted to look into it, and just could not see it. The distributor ground is a real bugger, but like I said it did NOT look factory.

another ground issue. I was looking over my grounds, on my 75 cali car (one set of coils on dizzy) I have a R and G wire from dizzy to term block. The term block connects to an engine harness which I presume goes around the front of the car, eventually working its way back to the passenger side compartment mounted ignition module. One this term block I found a ground wire from the same green wire to the AFM ground point. So on side of the pickup coil is grounded? there is nothing in the FSM showing a ground on the pickup leads. To further complicate maters the ground lead does not look factory (to new a looking eyelet). So I don't know if this was added or a fix for a broken lead. Lastly on my alternator I have a huge black earth lead connected to the earth bold on the alternator. Why is this? should the case of the alternator not be a sufficient enough ground? or is it not reasonable to relay on all the mount bolts to provide a good ground in this case? The black wire goes into the wire harness so I don't know exactly where it ends up, I presume as a connection somewhere near the starter negative lead that goes back to the battery.

I was going to replace the WTS with the pot, not put it in series, that way I can adjust from 0-5k ohms, the WTS will have no effect this way, but I can adjust and see what happens. I did NOT check the leaking FPR vacuum line recently but will again, since I could have missed it. I was looking over the AtanticZ tips on grounds, since I have only a partial setup. I could not see any grounds in the wiring diagram off the EFI harness itself, so nothing there is grounded. I did notice on my car the AFM is grounded but I don't see any electrical reason why. It does not appear to have any electrical connections to the case, but I will ground it anyway. there was a EFI ground noted on the tips section but that seems to be for a secondary harness that controls non EFI functions (there was a temp gauge, and a water temp switch for dist advance or EGR from what I could tell). The EFI harness (the big one) had NO eyelets that would require grounding. The Battery IS grounded to the engine block (the only thing I can ground to) by connecting the negative starter cable to the batter and the starter bolt that fastens to the engine thru the adapter plate. The only things that would use the ground that I can see would be the therotime (not using it), the spark plugs, and the fuel pump (not using the switch off the EFI for that at this time). Since the AFM has a huge part to play in fuel mix, I will connect a ground wire from the mount bolts to the engine block for what its worth. I could see it if somehow it was electrically connected as part of a voltage divider like a pot that uses the case as the center lead, but that does not seem to be the case here. But it cant hurt and I am running out of ideas. could not pickup any new plugs today, apparently they are not a stocked item at most of my local part stores. So will take some more time and see if I can get the relatively new ones super cleaned up, and order some new ones to test later. I suppose I should ground the case of the EFI as well, installed in the car it is after all ground thru the mount screws.

just going to put a bolt in it. Other things I am going to do, replace the WTS with a pot so I can dial in resistance, JIC my WTS is the issue (seems like it should be ok based on the reading I get when testing but who knows, I was wrong about the o ring :) Timing light Tach resistor (neg coil to gnd, 2.2k) I feel progress was made since the WTS sensor can stay connected now. I think it was still pig rich, I did not pull the plugs buy my eyes were stinging, I assume from the rich mixture. Fuming up the garage something awful.

new manifold gasket, tested with smoke, yikes, still leak at #6, for all my checking and saying all the o rings were there, I did indeed miss one. argh. Anyway test run at it pretty much starts right up but still not right BUT now it will start and continue to idle albeit poorly with the WTS connected, disconnect it and it dies. Going to get a fresh set of plugs and try it again. just to see if they still show super rich. Also going to just plug the CSV, no need for it with 80+ temps. fuel pressure looks good, FPR responding to vacuum. I should have tried removing the oil cap. Tomorrow got to give it a break. one thing for sure I know I have no leaks at the manifold the annoying exhaust tick is gone. oh gosh those thin cigars my wife got for me to puff on, OMG they are TERRIBLE!!!!!!

interesting, but I saw something else that may work even better, I have a sniffer for AC leaks, maybe I can use it so find the leak if I can find a safe gas that it can operate on, heck may work with dust off. just block off the intake, and pump in the dust off thru the brake port. I think I will test that to see how the sniffer reacts to it. or I could just pull a Scotty and break out a stogie I suppose, will have to video that so you can see me turn green...

ZH forgot to respond back, yes ran it for several minutes (now that I have the rad and t stat) prob around 3k based on hearing. I am going to reset every thing this week end, starting with a full tank of fuel and new manifold gasket. more info no EGR on this setup (intake not setup for it) PCV valve sound ok (free to move, clicking heard), hose installed. water temp tested right at 180f

I checked it before I installed it, but it will be checked again, thx for the reminder.

oh forgot to mention I did triple check all the O rings on the injector nozzles are present.

Got a new manifold gasket, may pick up some Kools later for a smoke generator Was thinking I could put the butt into a rubber hose, then put a larger rubber hose over the entire smoke, blow into the larger hose and use the smaller long rubber hose to the manifold. I would prefer not to smoke those things directly esp Kools, IIRC those were like smoking fiberglass.

cold start is there, thermo time not working, so I just manually fire it from time to time for testing with a stand alone battery pack. thought about wiring directly to the "start" position without the aid of time or temp (would just unplug if thought I was cranking too much), but that is cheating, and should not be required. Have to get to the root of the problem. My car starts fine with no CSV help with the temps we have now, so need to work out this spare problem. I don't want to start pulling parts of my perfect running car to fix it, something about a bird in the hand.

I have the loom installed, even used the same cap and loom from my running car.

oh yes all good, 36-36 not running, about 30 when it catches with 18inHg showing in between when its miss firing. Frankly I am kinda surprised at the decent vacuum when its running , I expected it to be much worse considering the less that optimum operating conditions. I was hoping to find a smoking gun on the injectors, no joy.

bugs me cause I wanted to see a big difference based on the condition of the plugs. since its all even I cant account for drastic rich on one and normal on the other. I was hoping for a clog or some other defect, but since it appears they are all matched then it gets tougher to figure out issue.

whats also odd is the way it will "catch" that is stop misfiring, and then I can throttle up and down, still not right due to the WTS issue, but odd none the less. If I connect up the WTS it suddenly starts missing, disconnect and it misfire until "catching" again then good to go ("catch" = engine will suddenly rev up a lot and smooth out) before it "catches" the throttle has little response just a chugging along miss firing engine at low rpm. I will try to get a video, but will need my helper as I will be messing with the engine.

ok to ask, and yes have the connectors right double checked and been testing at the 36pin, the ohms track per the FSM to the temps. I have a pot (5k) ready to try, but that is at best a patch, my 500 ohm pot did not help, still died when hooked up. yes I will do a timing light check. could pickup a Havana on the way out for a smoke test. What bugs me is the seemly same amount of fuel spritzing during the engine crank with injectors pulled back from the head to see the flow, No obvious diff and this is done while cranking with the throttle closed.

I need to be more detailed to track exactly which plugs are fouling (beyond 4 of the 6, more like exactly which 4) so will do that to better follow the plugs. I know that resistor, I can measure it on my car, its the one that is located in the passenger side under dash correct? Something I noticed, the bad exhaust leak at the #6 (looks like a chuck of the gasket must have blown out). I reused an older gasket, I wonder if I have over leaks including intake or even leaks from the exhaust to the intake... Before I get too deep I am going to put a new gasket in there. will recap the issue good compression on all cylinders (160-165) all injectors firing what seems to be about the same (visual inspection with rail pulled and cranking engine to observe). new plugs that will quickly foul (4 of 6 that is) soft black carbon fully coating the entire plug after minutes of running all plugs sparking spark looks normal compared to normal operating engine fuel pressure 38 no vac 30 at about 18inHg (observed when car idle is managed) throttle position sensor tested at 36 pin (on at idle, off until about 1/2 then on again to full throttle) timing unsure but moving dist within range of adjustment helps depending on RPM (idle or throttle up). Seems to require very rich to start (often will only start after CSV fire even when warm) when it starts is missing badly like only running on 3 much throttling and messing with the AFM flay and it will suddenly "catch" like at least 5 or maybe all 6 will light off, from there you can throttle down and idles smoother, not perfect but much better. all this is with the water temp sensor disconnected. connected and it will not idle but will run throttle up just fine WTS tested at the 36 pin connector pin 13 and ground tracks resistance to temp in spec with the FSM. all unused vac ports are sealed (brake/carbon canister). all test for voltage and resistance of ECU done at 36 pin connector in spec per FSM AFM known good unit and tested again( 100 ohm and 180 ohm tested, air temp resistance tested, voltage divider circuit tested with 9v battery and analog meter, no breaks normal looking sweep) ECU known good unit. All this leads me to a air leak issue of unmetered air, and the only place I can think of is that junction of the manifold to the head. What really baffles me is the super rich running condition per the plugs yet leaning (water temp sensor plugged back in) will kill the idle. I was focusing on the water temp sensor and the throttle position sensor but they test fine. one more observation, I don't notice any extreme black smoke while running, that's very subjective as to what it should be but you would think it would be very noticeable.

will look for it in the FSM, so its just a resistor from the - coil side same circuit that goes to the pin 1 of the EFI?. With the new AAR it started better and ran a LOT faster, getting more air, all with the WTS disconnected. Its odd it like the richness to run but the 4 for the plugs look pig rich. 2 looked fine. As soon as I reconnected the WTS it would die a idle (270 ohms 180f engine temp). odd super rich but leaning out kills it. Its still running with the carbon fouled plugs but I doubt for long before the build up shorts them out. Ran out of gas, looked up and saw 10psi then stopped. oh well out the wawa for some more pure gas. I don't think the low pressure was for very long (which would account for the needed richness on the EFI) but I will reset everything for some more testing this weekend. When it was running I had it on the orig distributer cap so I will not have to steal from Dat Boi (my car) to test.

another try, same deal I can get it to run if I disconnect the WTS, it will idle but not very well, if I connect it I can get it to run as long as I throttle up, transition is not that good. I think CO is right there must be something I am missing. I tried a different ECU. I have to monkey with the distributor to smooth things out between idle and throttle up. I did hook up the ported vacuum to the distributer (the servo works and will hold vacuum). Measured resistance at 180f 270 ohms on WTS. This is fighting me way too much. starting is not as is should takes way too much cranking. I even resorted to firing the CSV continuously during the cold start and idle (until I unplugged the WTS). Something def not right. I am pretty sure I don't have any unmetered air. Perhaps is as ZH says just need to run it for a while with the high speed to help clean stuff up. I double checked all the EFI stuff I could think of (air temp/water temp/start enrichment voltage, fuel pressure, static and running with vacuum) all seems to be normal. This is what in the TV repair biz would be called a tough dog. oh and I did compare the spark to my normal running car, the spark as about as energetic as my car so I don't think its a weak spark. I may break out the color tune spark plug just to see the flame color on combustion.

another almost but no start deal. I tried the known good cap. I tried fooling with the AFM flap. Finally I pulled the fuel rail, all injectors seem to be spritzing just fine. I did have one that has developed a leak (reminder to all FI guys, look at the injectors now and then for leaks) I could smell it. Not sure if its a hose or a problem with the injector body will deal with that before going on. I am starting to wonder if my spark is not strong enough. I will get some heavier primary wire. Right now I have lamp cord (x2) going from the coil to the ign switch and same for the neg from the coil to the module and the module to the ground. BUT I also may have gone to light on the main battery to ign switch. Think I will pull a plug on my 75 and compare the spark.

oh forgot to mention I did NOT use the same dist cap and wires as the prior running video (ones from my car). So will also put that back on to be sure I don't have spark issue.

I was doing that some during the video, it will misfire badly then as I advance the throttle, suddenly all will all fire and smooth out. I finally got a halfway decent idle after doing that for a while. This was with the cold water keeping the engine at about 70f, and the best run was with the temp switch disconnected (it was about 1.6k IIRC at pin 13 when connected with the cold water). I was hoping with the rad and the controlled temp it would idle better, but I struggled to get it to idle at all today. Again it would sputter and then catch on and run well (with lots of throttle), but never got settled down with any kind of reliable idle. This was all before I realized I had the idle screw completely closed off. I just could not find the sweet spot today. I did find the AAR was completely blocked off, will not open even after sitting for hours. I replaced it with the good one and will try again tomorrow. Will give it another go tomorrow and this time will resist the urge to mess with the AFM while its running. The plugs were caked with soft cabon deposits, brand new plugs in just a few minutes of attempting to run. The water temp sensor was down into the low 100's this time with the 180f t stat (tested at pin 13 and ground). I confirmed no leaks at the CSV. will double check the FPR vacuum line, but it was ok on the bench. Pressures all seem normal.