Carl Beck

Hi Alan (everyone): Far better late... as this project is not going to be done any time soon. Great pictures and great information - I appreciate your efforts. They answer a number of questions for me about the sit up on my Z. They look almost exactly like the struts etc. that I have on the car. Of course now I'll have to go find out how/where BRE obtained these struts. Also surprising to see that the struts you pictured, also had adjustable spring perches. The restoration project on the BRE Baja Z is moving along.. although a bit slowly. The engine is now at Sunbelt Performance Engines for a complete refresh... and I still have to have the 26 gallon fuel tank/fuel cell to be reproduced... I'll be removing the entire rear suspension next, so we may find some more information about this set-up when/if I can read the labels on them as well. regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

classicZ Can you tell us how much rust or what type of progression you have? Surface rust on the sheet metal or big holes that need to be repaired? Can you tell us exactly where the rust is - on top of the battery stand, under the stand on the innerfender, down on the front frame rail??? Better yet, can you post a picture of that area with the battery removed? I wouldn't drill the spot welds out for light surface rust.. Once we know the above ... we might be able to make a recommendation as to the best approach... regards, carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA

I don't know what that was actually made for.. but it's not for a Z. The dual tip Ansa for the Z is stacked one on top of the other.. that side by side style will not fit unless you cut metal away from your lower finisher panel. FWIW Carl B.

Hi Richard... "stronger" I wonder in what regard the VG is "stronger" than the L series. Can you elaborate more on that? I might be missing something.... I'm no expert on block castings, etc etc... but to continue the discussion.... Based on the statements made by Nissan Exec's, in the Stockholders Reports of the late 70's and early 80's..... the reason Nissan went to a V6 was "Cost Savings". From memory I believe they quoted something like a 25% cost saving at the manufacturing level. I'm not sure if we should take too much stock in Marketing Hype nor Management Fluff, but the stockholders reports by the CEO, made sense to me at the time. If you read the history of the design of the Short Block Chevy V8... you realize why it was called a "short block"... For mass production, it is far less expensive to both form the casting molds and pour the castings for the low profile short blocks, than to form the molds and pour the castings for deep skirted engine blocks. The switch to short blocks, was a hall mark of the cost savings Chevy gained from the SBC design. The VG also uses a low profile block casting, In a short block casting the bottom of the block is at the centerline of the crankshaft. With a deep skirted design the block casting extends below the crank, this strengthens the structure that holds the crank in place. The metallurgy required to pour taller castings of deep skirted blocks.. is actually different than that needed for low profile castings as well. The deep skirted design of the L6 requires far higher grades of cast iron, which use a higher percentage of nickel in the alloy.. The cast iron of the L series is far superior in strength and durability (sadly it is also more expensive). An interesting side note... the Offy blocks of the 30's through the 50's were cast and then had to "age" for at least two years before they would be bored for use. It took that long for the cast iron to settle at the molecular level...and regain its maxium strength.. with the original Hemi's (1951/52) both heads and blocks were cast, then allowed to age for at least six months... by contrast, the SBC's were cast and bored the next day.. another cost saving of both smaller castings and more modern metallurgy technologies. {but the V6 is most certainly not stronger - just strong enough to do the job as intended by the manufacturer} Only three cylinders could be bored at time in the boring stations for the L series engines. The tooling was too big to be spaced closer together, in a straight row of 6, and then controlled to the precise tolerances necessary... so the L six had to be bored in two steps.. at two boring stations {first cylinder 1,3,5.. then 2, 4, 6}. More modern tooling, used to produce the V6 allowed block boring to be done at one station... three cylinder on each side. Another cost saving consideration...half the boring stations needed - saving hundreds of millions of dollars of capital investment in both tooling and floor space. Bearing surfaces... if you look at the total number of bearings, the total bearing surface area of the V6 vs the L6 you quickly see that the expensive process of casting and machining bearing supports is cut down in a V6.. as well as saving funds on expensive bearings themselves... It takes a lot of block strength and bearing surface to keep that long crank turning true at high RPM's in the in-line six!! There are of course lots of trade-off's to consider... true - the compact design of the V6 allows far more flexibility for styling, makes the engine useable in far more models etc. All cost savings for Nissan, and in turn more competitive pricing for Nissan Customers...(by the way Nissan's Customers are their Authorized Dealers). On the other hand, for people who appreciate the natural smoothness of an in-line six, for those that would gladly have the customer "option" of paying a bit more for a higher quality engine... it is a shame Nissan didn't let the customers decide. IMHO - there is nothing about the V6 that is "better" for the consumer. It is simply a cheaper engine to produce, and the cost savings seem to have been intended to benefit Nissan's bottom line, at the expense of the consumer. Just my perspective... regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Not to be nit-picky, but actually it was from the M/B 220 of the early 50's (but then so was BMW's in-line six). FWIW, Carl B.

The problem you run into is that the 240Z has only a very narrow space within which any seat will fit, slide fore/aft and recline properly. With any aftermarket, or used seat, you'd want to assure they are narrow enough to fit in a 240-Z. Seat height is also a major consideration - you can wind up not being able to get your legs under the steering wheel if the replacement seats are too high. The seats you use depend on what you want to do with the car of course... rebuilding the original seats keeps the car "stock"... but they really do leave a lot to be desired when you are on a longer road trip, or using the car for competitive events. For "Grand Touring" use {ie longer road trips}... you want a seat that offers proper support without being overly restrictive. I'm very happy with the Acura seats I put in my 240-Z. The side bolsters on the Recaro's I had were too pronounced.. See: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/AcuraSeats/AcuraBeck.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/AcuraSeats/AcuraBeck.htm</a> FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Kats: GREAT.. input! I've updated the Vintage Z Register and the Photo Album.. So that's 3 Vintage Z's in Japan and 1 in Gaum... HLS30 03924 was originally sold at Performance Nissan.. http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/VintageZ.htm regards, Carl

Hi Gav: Gee...it's da ja vue all over again.... {seems I had that problem before!} Anyway, funny it would display just fine on my computer/browser.. and not show up on yours. It was a coding errror, but I wonder why I/E on a Mac would be more forgiving... fixed it now anyway.. thanks, Carl

HI Kats (everyone): THANKS... I've added HLS30 00630 to the Z Car Register along with HLS30 62850 {the VZ in Gaum} See: http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/VintageZ.htm and http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/VintagePictures.htm Rob/Gav240Z: I've found no problems accessing the site, nor viewing all the images. Are either or both of you on Verzion's DSL?? We have had problems reported with that service allowing access to the site. Can't explain it yet... BTW - if you find a Z432 for sale, please let me know. kind regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com beck@becksystems.com

Hi Mimregi: Just looking at the pictures of your car, the paint job and detailing look pretty through and fairly well done. So if there is undercoating under the floorboards, it may be there to cover some repairs... but it is most likely they were done with the same care and attention to detail as the rest of the body work. I forgot to mention - you said the doors were leaking... but that the door seals seemed to be OK.. Look on the top of the door frame, in the front where it closes under the dogleg of the front fender.. (outer-door skin, door frame, inner-door skin). On the top of that door frame there is supposed to be a rubber seal, about six to eight inches long.. held on with about three or four plastic rivets. A lot of times they are removed when repainting the car... then not replaced. If they aren't replaced, water will run inside the car when you wash it or in heavy rain. From memory.. the Vintage Air Super Cooler II was about $495.00. The Super Cooler has both the A./C evap. and heater core in one box and includes a new blower ...The new blower moves about three times the air that the old Dealer Installed A/C systems did. They now have complete electronic controls... so no vacuum tubes to deal with either). The stock ducting pretty much just reattaches to the new SuperCooler unit. Then you need a compressor and a new condenser.. plus the hoses, dryers... I used a rebuilt 280ZX compressor and compressor mount for the L6... plus a new condenser designed specifically for 134a. Likewise you'll need hoses and fittings designed for 134a... (O-ring'ed fittings, shielded hoses etc). The 280Zx compressor is a Hatachi unit, very expensive even as a rebuilt unit. I used it because I could easily find the proper mount and it lined up with the crankshaft pullies... I wouldn't recommend it. If I had to do it again, I'd go with a new Sanden or Sanyo.. and get the proper mounts. Less money and better compressors actually. If you want to see the installation and talk Z's ...drop me an e-mail and run on over to Clearwater. (but keep your eyes open for alligators crossing I-4! ) kind regards, Carl B.

Hi Minregi: Welcome to Florida.. Good to hear you had a good road trip coming down, but sorry to say that moving to Florida in July is about the worst time to make the move from the North!! If you stick it out for a couple years, you'll adjust to the heat and humidity... but that first few months aren't too much fun.. especially in the middle of the State!! Welcome also - back to the wonderful world of Datsun Z ownership. I'm in Clearwater now, born and raised in Ohio... lived in Texas, California and moved here from Washington State. That was anything BUT a great road trip!! But the warm winters and the beach here in Clearwater made up for it!! I've been driving 240-Z's since 1970. Without question in my mind the 240-Z is the best Sports/GT I've ever owned.. without regard to price. For that matter it's most likely the best car I've ever owned. That's a good looking 240-Z you have there and I'd guess someone put a ton of money into it, before they let it go. It looks like it's sitting somewhat low... do you know if it has lowered springs, and/or what type of suspension it has? (just wondering if you need to do some suspension work or not?) Just my personal opinion - offered as something to think about: 1. I'd pull the Webers off.. and replace them with the 70-72 SU's. Why?: a)that would eliminate one needless variable while tuning and trouble shooting engine operation... running the stock SU's you are in a configuration that is supported by a broad and vast knowledge base, running the Webers you will find three or five people that can tell you what they have encountered.... the only reasons I've seen people install the Weber conversion is because they found it cheaper than replacing/rebuilding the SU's - or they somehow bought the hype that they could improve performance. A rebuilt set of SU's is about $650.00 as I recall, plus you'd have some linkage to replace, maybe a few gaskets etc... Second alternative, because you mentioned it.. go with Fuel Injection. (it would be a good learning curve to go though.. as well). 2. Install the Vintage Air system... it's the only system I've found that will actually cool a 240-Z, in Florida to any degree of satisfaction. Vintage Air produces A/C systems for Classic, Custom and Special Interest Cars.. It isn't "stock" but it works and is easy to install. See: VintageAir.Com Most of all.. have fun with your wife and the car. kind regards, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL http://ZHome.com

Hi Kats (everyone): Thanks for the lead... That car was reported as "Sold By" Universal City Nissan. If you happen to meet any of the owners of the Vintage Z's in Japan, please get them to send me the full information related to their VZ's.. for the IZCC's Vintage Z Register. I've up-dated the Vintage Z Register.. and associated Picture Page.. See: <a href=http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/VintageZ.htm TARGET=NEW>The Vintage Z Register</a> and <a href=http://zhome.com/IZCC/ZRegisters/VintagePictures.htm TARGET=NEW>The Vintage Z Picture Gallery</a> Kind Regards, Carl Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi zman525 The 240Z doors can be bolted on the 280Z... they just won't seal against the body seals. The inner wall of the 280Z doors is different. If you put 240Z doors on the 280Z the sealing surfaces won't match up... and you'll have a large gap that you can see light though. For the fender horns.. that's what I call them anyway... That's the top of the inner fender, over which the front fenders bolt... These are actually as important, or more important to the structural strength of the unibody than the lower frame rails.. so you want to take good care of them. Get some Scotch Bright pads.. green and brown.. a gallon of Ospho and a pint or quart of POR-15. Remove any stray undercoating from them with mineral spirits.. then scrub them down to bare metal with the Scotch Bright pads, wetting the area down, and rinsing often with Ospho. With a little effort you should wind up with clean, bare metal.. Rinse the area down with water.. then blow it dry with dry compressed air.. Yes, you have to rinse the excess Ospho off with water.. don't worry, it will protect the bare metal from flash rust. When it's clean, shinny, and DRY bare metal.. paint the bare metal with POR-15. You can use a brush on that area, as it isn't seen, and the POR-15 will flow out like glass anyway. Follow the directions on the POR-15 can... to the letter!. Wear latex gloves.. if you get it on your hands and it drys.. the only thing that will take it off is time... lots of time.. Catch it when it's wet, and you can use lacquer thinner to remove it. A little goes a long way... so I'd buy a couple of pints rather than a quart. That way you can use one up before opening the next. If you have some left in a can, put wax paper across the top before you replace the lid.. and then make sure the lid is on tight. Any air at all and the stuff will turn to a rock in the can in no time. Forget the wax paper and you will have a very hard time getting the top off again.. POR-15 is intended to be applied directly to bare metal...it can be primed with a urethane primer when the POR-15 is slightly tacky.. but once it drys.. you can't get primer/paint to stick to it without sanding.. and it's very hard to sand!. Under the fenders there is no need to paint over it.. The manufacturer says that the best surface over which to apply it.. is slightly surface rusted metal.. as the rough surface offers better adherence... but I personally just don't like leaving iron oxide under any coating over steel.. Ospho is a brand name, that is common in Automotive Paint supply stores.. it's been around for decades. Ospho is actually a mild phosphoric acid solution. The acid will aid in stripping the old primer and surface rust off the part... then it will chemically convert iron oxide into iron phosphate.. in effect it stops rust dead in it's tracks.. and prevents flash rust from forming in the pores of the metal. Once you get used to using this process.. it should take you about two hours per front fender horn. If you work slow.. maybe three hours per side. FWIW, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com

Hi Alan (everyone): I've added some pictures to the same URL See: <a href=http://zhome.com/BRE/BREFrontSuspension.htm TARGET=NEW>http://zhome.com/BRE/BREFrontSuspension.htm</a> Just scroll down the images. It would seem that the lower spring perch, on the front BRE adjustable coil overs, covers the range of 266mm to 305mm. About the same height as the rear Rally Option struts you show (given that front and rears can't be directly compared). However the total length of the strut tubes on the BRE car are about 55mm less in total length (420mm vs. 365mm). The springs - if I had to guess - look like they were from the Rally Option Struts.. as they are the same wire diameter... but they would appear to have been cut down.. from 267mm to 220mm. So the free lenght is about 2 inches shorter.. I'm not sure what that would have done to the installed height and thus the ground clearance/wheel clearance.. (I guess I'll have a better idea once I get the original size tires/wheels back on the car). Yes - both struts have the... tubes for the Halda Drives - if you say that's what they are - I've not seen them on anything else, can you tell us more about them?... I can find no indication from pictures taken in the car (at least so far) - that they were used for Baja nor the Mexican 1000. They certainly wouldn't have been needed for the road racing to the car was put to later.. thanks for the help... regards, Carl

Hi Alan (everyone) Please Stand By... while I try to get everything that used to work perfectly well (slow but well) on my old Mac to work again on this blindly fast new one. I may have to bring the old G3 back on-line... This may take a day.. or two... sorry for the delay.. regards, Carl

I have HLS30 16831 listed twice...Ron and Michael M. in Clearwater. Did you buy the car from Mike? What is the original engine number in your Z? thanks, Carl

Bob Brooking, IZCC#421 has HLS30 31305 FWIW, Carl B

John Csomay, IZCC #991, and ZCAR member..HLS30 8218 FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Daddz: Dan Veldkamp, IZCC #5004.. has HLS30 08325.. with engine #L24-011813 FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan (everyone) I've put a couple pictures of the labels that were on the struts at: <a href=http://zhome.com/BRE/BREFrontSuspension.htm TARGET=New>http://zhome.com/BRE/BREFrontSuspension.htm</a> Across the top of the label it "looks" like it say's ..............NISSAN .........S30 RAC FOR RALLY ........ something/##6???..5402 ..... ....... 73 5 10 The spring coils, number of turns and free length would seem to line up with the E4266, but that could be the case for the E7213 - may be the same basic part only with updated/later Part Numbers?? Any thoughts?... regards, Carl B.

I have a couple of serious buyers looking for a nice Z... Would also be interesting to see how this one actually looks in person. I guess I didn't realize it was done by Too Intense... now I more fully understand the warning... By all means go check it out for us.. and be sure to get underneath and look closely.. thanks, Carl B.

Hi Guys: With Will's warning taken seriously.. if you go check the car over... and if it is as rust free and straight as described.... At this point in time.. the "Buy-It-Now" price on the car represents a bargain in the 240-Z market. (your paying $3000.00 for the car plus $4,500.00 for all the paint and body work.. everything else already done on the car is FREE). A good straight, rust free, unrestored, unrefreshed 240-Z in presentable condition, with 90K to 120K miles, that runs out fine... has a base price of around $5,500.00. This would be a car that would be a good starting point for a full refresh.. or restoration.. No matching number engine, leaves it out of any future Collector Market... so deduct about $1,500.00... now it's a $4k car. OK... now take it apart, fresh paint to above average but not "SHOW" quality.. $4,500.00 Put it back together.. with all new: bumpers chrome scripts/emblems etc Weather strips/seals Carpet, Seats, door panels, interior plastic panels hoses, belts, water pump, fuel pump, battery, rebuilt SU's.. new radiator, new heater control valve and hoses... Do a fresh brake job Do a fresh clutch Do a rebuilt tranny.. find a good rear gear.. On and on it goes... by the time you duplicate this car... You'll easily have spent a year or more of your time.... and easily an additional $15K... You now have a car that is as good as this one is supposed to be for only $19K - and this one might be as good as presented... Oh... you want to really go full restoration... all period correct bits and pieces.. show quality paint... Add another $20K to $25K today. If this car checks out as described... rust free.. solid, above average paint... running fine.. he has it priced at least $2K under it's current market value.. If it had it's original engine.. it would be easily a $11K to $14K car... Buy this car as a driver for the enthusiast.. local shows where matching numbers don't matter as much.. maybe a future L28 turbo project.. take care of it and it will still be worth the money two, five or ten years from now... maybe a whole lot more.. If your serious about buying a very nice driver.. go check it out carefully in person.. and buy it now at $7,500.00... plan to spend an additional $4K on small items.. just to have a bit of fun with the car.. Any one that has spend any time looking for a good (not excellent, not perfect... just "good") 240-Z now knows how hard it is getting to be to find one. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Dave: No. I do not know if there was more metal or not.. only that the structure was redesigned to meet and pass the impact test criteria. As I recall the impact test used a swing arm weight that struck the bumpers in the middle.. This impact had to be absorbed without disabling the car, and leaving the lighting in tact and working (both front and rear).. So it was quite possible that they simply moved some metal around.. where it would reinforce the structure.. or allow it to crumple without taking out the lights. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Alan: The part number data that was printed on the aluminum foil stickers affixed to the struts, was only partly visible... I have some pictures of them I'll try to get on-line, maybe you can fill in more of the missing/smeared lettering/numbers. They are Ampco.. that was still clear on them. No.. I am not certain that they are the struts used at Baja. Mr. Brock is still looking for pictures from the period.. but originally the car seems to have been equipped with the Rally Struts (with fixed spring perches)... then changed later to the adjustable coil overs.. why or exactly by whom... is still TBD. As you will see from the original data tags when i get the pictures on-line.... they are marked NISSAN S30 RALLY... That is not to say that the struts weren't later modified with the coil overs.. the car was road-raced briefly by it's second owner.. Agreed.. that is most likely what I will do.. the restoration is primarily aimed at presenting the car as it originally appeared, and preserving the history... I seriously doubt it will ever actually be raced again. Agreed... that was pretty much the path that BRE followed.. they used as much off the shelf stuff that Nissan could supply... then modified from there. The numbers are not stamped into the struts anywhere that I can find.. and I sanded them down to bare metal before refinishing them. They had aluminum foil type stickers, that had the information printed in ink on them. I haven't removed the rear struts yet.. and may be able to get some additional details off them, once I get them off the car. At this point I do not know for certain when/who they were installed.. The one article done by a Magazine in 1973 used photo's of the car before it was actually complete... then the second owner converted some things for road racing.. and he very well could have modified/changed the suspension at that point... that would have been closer to the 74/76 time period you mention... I'm in the middle of a major transition between computers right now..so as soon as I can find, publish the pictures of the struts and what was left of the stickers.. I'll get back with you.. (moving from a seven year old Mac G3 to a new G5... very painful experience.. upgrading and/or up-dating all the software and files etc..) more later, thanks, Carl

Hi Alan: Yes, that would be supported by Andrews reply at #9 also. As the spring perch is higher on the strut, when the above mentioned springs are installed.. they can not be interchanged with the spring we are tracking. Nor can I find any source for them at present. Actually no.. I had not researched the damper spec.'s - -that accompanied the various spring rates from Nissan/Datsun. For that matter it is next to impossible to get the technical spec.'s for any of the aftermarket units as well. Would be interesting to know. So it makes us wonder which set of springs/struts were on the production car tested, as well as the shock rates used. Yes/No? I've also noticed that the installed height of the various springs, would also change the relationship of front and rear ground clearance. That too would have an effect on lift at higher speeds I would guess. I was aware that on the various competition cars shock absorbers and their valves could be changed and/or altered to provide local fine tuning. I have the Factory Race Suspension on my BRE Z and am finding it impossible to locate any parts to rebuild the shocks... err... dampers... (54302-E4622 and 54303-E4622 front struts, 55302-E4622 and 55303-E4622 rear struts). I may just have to turn to the after-market and have a custom set built. Do you have any specifications for the springs used on the Factory Rally Suspension? I can not find the spec.'s anywhere. All I have to compare is the Free Length of the Race and Rally Springs.. Of course I have the Race springs so I can measure them... Do you know anyone that has the original Rally Suspension...that could take some measurements for us? It's not critical, but it would be interesting to know.. Not really. Many of the JDM and Export parts not found as standard equipment on the US/North American Spec. cars - are listed and were available via Special Order over the Parts Counter at the Datsun Dealers. Many were also listed in the Datsun Competition Parts Catalogs though Nissan Motors USA. Could have been just a way or generating additional parts and service revenue, by selling into the huge after-market for speciality and performance parts here in the US at the time. The Dealership I worked at installed a lot of them for customers after they purchased their cars. (rear spoilers, 5spd.'s, lower ratio rear gears, stiffer springs etc.). I remember that my first 5spd. over the Parts Counter cost ... are you sitting down.. $375.00!!). Since the Datsun 240-Z's sold here in the States, really had no true factory "options" (other than A/T) that the customer could select/order on his car... the customers here were hungry for items that could be used to "customize" or "individualize" their Z's, as well as increase the performance of the car. The automotive after-market was fairly quick to supply a host of comfort, performance and appearance items for the 240-Z's. Many of which became "Factory Authorized" and were resold by Nissan Motors USA, with Datsun Parts numbers thourgh the dealer network. regards, Carl B. Carl Beck Clearwater, FL USA http://ZHome.com