Carl Beck

Hi Rick: #16, #17 and #19 are all 10/69, while #20, #22, #23 and #26 are 11/69. Then #27, #29, #30, #32, #36 are 10/69. The cars didn't come out of the factory in perfect sequential order. For some reason some were held-up during assembly and completed at a later date. As you can see from above -HLS30 00019 is date stamped 11/69 while HLS30 00020 is date stamped 10/69 etc. etc.. Since we have only seen about 1/4 of the 69 240Z's produced - we may never understand why there is such a mix of VIN's and Dates. #94 is a 10/69 production for example, #587 and #589 are stamped 11/69 while #48 is stamped 02/70... We do know that 52 240Z's were produced in Oct., 388 in Nov. and 97 in Dec. Their exact order of completion, nor the process for stamping and applying the required Date Of Manufacture data is unknown at this point. Two of the units were Right Hand Drive - so no date stamps on them. I seriously doubt the car in question carries a Sept. production date. I have #328 listed as: was in a scrap yard in Penn. - - reported parted out in Winter Park, Fl ????? Could this be #328 saved from the crusher???? I guess someone will either have to buy the car or at least go look to see what the VIN is. FWIW, Carl B.

Great news - and very trusting of your wife to get so far away from home on the first trial run. Good to have someone to share the experience with;-) Current pictures? Carl B.

Hi Rick: We always hate to see a 69 production year 240Z crushed. On this one we'd need far better pictures, and then we'd have to go inventory all the parts to see what is or is not there. Too much can get misplaced over the years. Low price aside - it looks pretty rusty. If he has new quarters, it is most likely because he felt the car needed them. I can't tell from the pictures -but that might just be more surface rust on the left rear quarter - instead of a factory hole.. Might be farther ahead to start with one in far better condition that hasn't been taken apart - even if it cost four to six times as much. $6K to $9K for a fairly sold, complete and restorable 69 is not out of the question today. An "unfinished project" with scattered bits and pieces - is always a pig-in-a-poke... it has to have a very low price to off-set the risk. One members several years ago - got a very good "deal" on such a project. After buying it and putting far more money into it - he found out that the doors wouldn't fit within the door openings on the body, nor would the windshield go into place. More time on the frame rack and he found that the body had just the slightest of twist and bend... nothing that more time and money wouldn't cure but ..... time and money he hadn't planned on. but who knows - it is worth going to physically inspect ... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Coop: Alan's advice and that on the Web Site he listed - pretty much agrees with the advice given by the guys in our Materials Lab. {Honeywell Space Systems}. I'll add: These old mag's usually suffer from years of accumulated oxidation damage, which in turn results in pitting. Pits in turn offer the greatest opportunity for stress cracking to begin. X-Ray is a must if you plan to race on them or do any high performance driving. I have to say that I wouldn't use them for competition. Magnesium alloys can become unstable over time when subjected to stress. The guys in the Materials Lab said they wouldn't trust a magnesium casting produced to Manned Space Quality Requirements - for more than six years, subjected to Earths atmosphere. {keep in mind these guys are at the extreme end of risk/reliability and they never consider "cost" - you know the type ;-) }. I resorted my LeMans wheels for the BRE Baja Z - FOR SHOW ONLY. I'll drive the Z on them at reasonable highway speeds, in light traffic. Other than that - I'd switch to a set of Libra's. To your question. I had the wheels media blasted. Alan's site says to use only aluminum oxide - I used fine glass beads at relatively low pressures (60 psi) per the guys in the Materials Lab. Second step was to take them to a machine shop and have the outer rims / lips turned down - a few thousands of an inch, usually cuts the pits out. All of them had fine pits in the lips. See attached pictures - first is a closeup and second is the wheel after being turned. Past that point - I coat my wheels with Gibbs Brand Gun Oil. Ron said he uses WD-40, to shield the metal from moisture. I did not want to paint them - rather I wanted the magnesium to age to its natural deep gray on the spokes, while keeping the rims/lips polished. I polish them with Nevr-Dull wadding, then coat them with Gibbs Oil. This is usually done at least once a month... they are a real PIA... in the last picture you can see how the centers have darkened with time. I'm sure that if you are using them to race on - you'll want to have them treated and painted. For sure you want to have the inside of the wheels - inside the tires - painted, as well as the back side of the wheels. BTW - Les found another set for me - so the pressure to sell them to me is off. ;-) I now have a complete set of FIVE for the BRE Z plus a couple extras as spares. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Clive: Yes - I had that car last listed as belonging to Al Leri, IZCC #2925 in Peckville, PA. Thanks for the link - I now have File Pictures.. FWIW, Carl

Hi Mark: Yes - it is good to see the segments, more or less combined in one viewable series. I too get hooked when I start watching - and I can't stop! The work and video production are both amazing.. He is a very talented man, and he's put a lot of effort into sharing the experience with us. FWIW, Carl B. You have to love working metal, to take on a project like that!

Hi Guys: I can tell you that the Dealership I bought my first Z from - installed tinted rear windows with the defroster's - in cars that came from the factory without them per a TSO. This information was combined in a later TSB related to when the rear window defroster was changed for 72. See Attached. Tinted glass and rear window defrosters were supposed to be "standard equipment" on the North American Datsun 240Z's. Although the first sales brochures listed them as "optional" - but we know there weren't any "options" - other than you had the option to buy the car or not. ;-) There was no additional charge for these items, nor the labor as far as the Customers were concerned if they were listed on the original Window Sticker but not found on the car. If the Customer pointed to the sales brochures and was unhappy enough about not getting the "option" - he got them installed even if they weren't on his original window sticker - at no charge. Nissan shipped the parts and paid the labor at the Dealership, to correct the issue. As we see today, some people had the parts changed and many people didn't. So today or 30 years ago - it is really impossible to tell how the specific car came from the factory prior to the items being included at the time of build - unless you look at the wiring itself. If you see U.S. standard automotive electrical wiring - you'll know that the Dealer installed the tinted rear window and defroster, or it was done at the Port, before being shipped to the Dealer. Somewhat the same situation with "Carpeting" that was supposed to be standard on the North American cars - - - and which was produced locally and installed, or included with the car when shipped to the Dealer, after they arrived here. According the Factory Service notice - the last 240Z shipped without the rear window defroster {and most likely tinted glass} was HLS30 1455. This was confirmed by it's owner. Michael F. Hollander. Us old guys will recall that Michael was the author of a Book "THE COMPLETE DATSUN GUIDE" in 1980, and was very active with the Datsun Owners Assoc. {as I recall} in the early 70's. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Rick: Mull started this thread in 2003 -- - you will enjoy watching the Video's he has produced about "Project Hugo" .. his Z Car restoration story. He bought a "rust free" Z on E-Bay sight unseen, and had it shipped to Sweden. See: Part 1 though 17 here... You'll enjoy it.. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5664992189261881712# FWIW, Carl B.

Sounds like you ran into two very intelligent young ladies.:tapemouth Great story.. Carl B.

Hi Coop: Can you post a couple pictures - so I can see what shape they are in? Also tell me if they have ever been painted {if you know}... Any WIN in a 40 year old Sports/GT is Impressive... FWIW, Carl

Be aware that there are "Right" and "Left" hand cut keys and the matching locks on the 72's. You can not re-key a Right hand cut lock to use a Left hand cut key. Meaning that you can only have your hatch lock rekeyed to fit your ignition Key - if it uses the same R or L Key as your ignition. FWIW, Carl B.

Let me re-phrase that. One of our member's 240Z was featured in an earlier SI Swim Suit Edition - thus starting the association between the Z and the SI Swim Suit editions.... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Richard: Good to see you here. I along with several automotive historians agree with you - the Datsun 240Z is considered to be one of the most important cars in U.S. automotive history. It changed the perception of Japanese cars in America, from being cheap little economy cars, to being high quality world class vehicles. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guy: I have Hagerty - and I did have a claim {first one in 40 years} Absolutely no hassle - and all the kindness and help they could offer. The only thing they said was "take it to whatever restoration shop you use and have it fixed". "If you don't have a shop in your area that you trust to do the work correctly, let us know and we'll get recommendations from Collectors in your area". I started working with the Hagerty many, many years ago to get Agreed Values on our Original Owner's 240Z's -, from the Z Car Original Owners Register on the Z Car Home Page. At that time most insurance companies, claims adjustors were putting actual cash values on 240Z's of around $1,500.00. {no matter if you had $10K in the car}. The original owners simply wanted Agreed Values high enough to assure their 240Z's would be properly fixed, should anything happen, without being totalled out for a relatively minor accident. In most cases, if there was an accident, it wasn't the original owners fault. Nonetheless the hassles with claims adjustors from the other persons insurance company or their own were simply impossible to overcome. It is a whole different story when your car is insured for an Agreed Value by another insurance company. Funny how insurance companies don't like to sue one another.. Really great when you don't have any hassle about getting your Classic Car properly repaired... I think we have about 130 of our 165 Original Owner 240Z's insured with the Hagerty today, and something over 600 Z Cars insured with them 70-96. The people at the Hagerty are real "Car People", they support the Classic Car Hobby all over the nation. Needless to say I don't think you can do better. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Guys: I've seen quite a few of these in new cars. When the Dealerships received the cars, the hubcaps, carpet, tool kit, outside rear view mirror, inside rear view mirror, booklets etc were in the rear deck area. Nissan had an extensive "Pre-Delivery Inspection" process during which the car was mechanically and physically checked over. In addition to preparing it for delivery to the Customer - or actually to be turned over from the Service Dept. to the Sales Dept. {then the Sales Dept sold and delivered the car} The Owners Manuals and Warranty Booklets along with other Paperwork such as the MSO went to the Title Clerk {of Office Manager} in the Dealerships. They in turn processed the MSO for State Title, filled out the Factory Warranty info to be sent to Nissan USA, and stamped the owners warranty info on the warranty cards. If they were really on top of things - they also recorded the VIN, Engine Serial Number and Key Codes for the new owner in the Warranty Booklet.. but sometimes that didn't get done before the customer that had been waiting for his/her Z wanted to take it... During PDI - all extraneous "trash"... boxes from the hub caps, the paper they were wrapped in, the vinyl sheets covering the door panels, wrappers from the seatbelts - - - and yes - - -these funny little inspection notes written in Japanese - and considered of no value - - went into the trash. The mechanics had to fill out a PDI Report - and one copy of that was supposed to go to the Customer, while other copies went to Nissan. Nissan paid the dealers for PDI services... I still have the Inspection sheet that came in my Blue 72 Z - but only because I took the car right off the truck - and did everything to it myself. Who would have ever thought back then that anyone would want to see any of that junk - - 98% of the Datsun 240Z's left their hub caps and stock wheels at the Dealership, and the Customers never saw them. For years we had large stacks of both stock wheels and hubcaps sitting around - and after a time we just threw most of them in the dumpster. There just wasn't enough room to keep them all. If you bought your Snow Tires from the Dealer instead of a Tire Shop - we'd throw in a set of stock wheels to mount them on ;-) The Parts Dept sold a few over the counter for customers that wanted them for snow tires as well - - usually $5.00 each, $10.00 if you wanted both stock wheels and hub caps. For years and years and years no one wanted "D" hubcaps, they were ugly, and stock 72/73 hub caps were just passable... Moon Dishes were the only way to go if you didn't have "MAG's".. On the Inspection sheet - after all these years one can just barely read what is left of the ink from the "carbon copy"... it wasn't too bright to begin with. FWIW, Carl B.

There is your garage space Guy... Bob isn't kidding.. Carl

Hi Bob: Tell the owner not to take a penny less than $18K for that car. All he has to do is reach the right buyer with lots of clear photo's...Anyone that has looked at a lot junked up and poorly cared for 240-Z's - that is able to buy a nice one when they find it - will snatch that one up in a heart beat. It is just a matter of getting the word out far and wide - and reaching the right person - the car itself is well worth $18K in 2009 dollars... With the inflation that is surely facing us over the next five years - it will take three times as many dollars to buy it then. FWIW, Carl B.

I'd guess you need to have a load test performed on that battery. Put it on a slow charger. After it is fully charged - take it somewhere that it can be put on a battery load tester. Sometimes batteries develop a dead short internally and that shows up on a load test. It sounds like it is going dead to quickly for something in the car to be draining it - if there is something in the car draining it that quickly - I think you would smell it. FWIW, Carl B.

What engine - what head? You list three Z's in your profile.. Carl B.

Actually Chris: The Datsun Jacket pictured was sold or given away by the Datsun Dealers. The Datsun Jacket sold by BRE had the large DATSUN patch on the back. The red 240Z patch pictured was most likey added by someone. FWIW, Carl B.

Come to think of it - that might be a legitimate question in some peoples minds. http://connectionsuisse.vox.com/library/audio/6a00c225285da5604a00c2252aff0e8e1d.html and http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/choose-quebec/society-values/french-language/index.html just saying....WTF???

Hi Ron: Several years ago I had tracked the car down to the person that sold it to its present owner. He relayed the following from documents found in the car. Which is pretty much confirmed by Rick as well. - He believes he was the second owner, from the window sticker in the glove box and other papers. - Purchased it from Garner, NC in 1976 - Imported into Portsmouth, VA - Sold by a Hampton, VA Dealer - At the time of purchase it has over 90K miles - Head replaced due to over-heating - Sold it to its present owner - an inside Parts Counter Man and Collector that worked for Bob Sharp Datsun. He gave me the present owners name - and I had been trying unsuccessfully for years to track him down. Talked to Bob Sharp and he remembered him, but did not know what happened to him, same for a couple other guys that worked in the Racing Shop at BSR... The present owner only worked at Bob Sharp Datsun for a couple years... He seemed to have dropped out of the Z Car community and no one knew where he was... Engine L24-02085 FWIW, Carl B.

Only now all the kids know exactly what to put in your gas tank or oil sump - instead of "sugar".

Well that's true. It's for people like me that have an old clunker sitting in the driveway - being used once or twice a year. An eyesore that the wife and neighbors were glad to see goneLOL The C4C Program is actually for New Car Dealers, and to aid in proping up the Government Motors Corporation for the UAW. The politicians were simply smart enough to make use of one or two of their groups of "usefull fools" {Gore's Folks etc}... to paint it Green and push it through in a hurry. Business as usual in D.C. Over your lifetime the single most expensive thing you pay for is the cost of Government. According to some reasonable sources that amounts to about 54% of your lifetime earning. One way to "save" some of your own money - is to take advantage of any "tax incentive" written into the Federal Laws. Most people buy a home - not only becaues they need it - but because the interest on the long term loan is tax deductible. Likewise today millions of people are taking advantage of the tax deduction in the thousands of dollars - to install new energy efficient A/C units, insulate their homes etc. From the customers perspective - the C4C program is simply another tax incentive - although one that was exceptionally easy to claim and comply with. As long as my wife is still working - she or I have to earn $7,031.25 in order to keep or spend $4,500.00 after taxes. {the value of my C4C}. With a tax incentive like that - we'd be stupid not to take advantage of it. C4C credit is NOT INCOME to the customer either.. which makes it even more valuable. I wanted something a bit newer than my 72 510 S/W for my Daughter to drive {not sure I would give it to her anyway} - My wife didn't want to give her 91 Thunderbird SC with 9K miles on it - to my Daughter... So that left me looking at a clean, low mileage used car... which takes about $12k to $15K even in todays market. C4C was a glove fit for me.. Daughter gets a car I don't have to fix, I get a good rational for upgrading my pickup from an 88 Chevy to maybe a 2000 Chevy... which I didn't really "need" as long as the clunker was sitting there.. FWIW, Carl B.

Carl??? Carl didn't say anything about Sand....da... Granted there are alternatives - one could continue to drive an old BMW and pour $4,500.00 into maintaining it over the coming years. Either way it costs money to drive.. Mary's new car has a 10 year / 100,000 mile power train warranty, in addition to the 5 year/ 60,000 mile new car warranty... So she should be good to go for a while... All said and done - one couldn't buy a serviceable used car for the total price of the new one.