Kathy & Rick

Love you guys, this is great!!!!! I just love to thrash around Z history w/guys who know a lot about it, and you guys are tops. Thanks! I appreciate your inputs because you supported the point I was trying to make, that an early VIN could be delayed and come off the line later; but a later VIN couldn't be inserted earlier. Such as, "Hey guys, it's only 10/69, so let's do up a VIN plate #328 and stick it in the mix early to see if these sharp American guys can pick up on our little prank."

Sure' date=' all of Bob Sharp's Z race cars had them! (See Z Car Club of Rochester ([url']www.ZCCR.net, go to photo gallery,go to Album of Vintage Z Race Cars).) And if I recall, the 510's and 610's did too. Just that the stripes didn't stand out as much as if they had been alone, due to all the rest of the trick paint those cars sported!!! All Z Best,.........Ranger Rick (a former Bob Sharp employee)

I'll tell everybody right up front that this guy is a big BS'er. He claims a 9/69 build date for VIN# 3XX ~ well, the VIN's didn't even get out of the single digits in 9/69. Briefly, the first few were production "mules" that never left the factory; the last few were flown out to various venues: to evaluate the effects of hard use, or to introductory car shows to get a feel for how they would sell. Subsequently they were either destroyed after they served their use, or transformed into race cars. I received this information, corroborated totally independently from two different National departments out in [then Datsun] HQ in Gardena, in 1976 while this information was still fresh and well-known. I've been into Z Cars basically since the beginning, and was actually w/Bob Sharp for awhile. So I've seen a lot of early Z Cars come and go over the years, and, being interested in what blocks of VINs were produced during what months, I've pursued a sub-hobby of trying to figure that out. Carl Beck in FL has a similar background in Z Cars and has been doing the same; now we are jointly trying to complete the puzzle. VIN#00013 is an early 10/69 car, and the earliest 11/69 car I have heard of is #26 down in FL. (Carl, it just occurred to me that I don't have your #00020 or Jim's #00016 and 19 on file, could you please fill me in?). VIN #00171 is an 11/69 car, which means the alleged #3XX couldn't even be a 10/69, much less a 9/69. And the latest 11/69 VIN I knew of till recently was #418 (I know both the original owner and the second (current) owner personally. But last month I expanded the highest 11/69 to #456 based on an indisputable EBay entry I saw. In 12/69, production tanked while they were correcting a crankshaft vibration issue. I've never seen a 12/69 build, and it is believed that the high VIN is in the 500's. Which means there were only about 100 12/69's, maybe even fewer. BTW Mally002, is your #797 a 12/69, or a 1/70? Help me fill a gap~ thanks! So for the guy to say he has a low 300's VIN w/a 9/69 build date is totally absurd, and that's as charitable as I can phrase it. I challenge him to produce the door jamb data plate, or any other evidence he might have to support his allegation. I'll tell the world, "IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!!!!!" I'll tell you why else the guy is all wet: not all 1969 build dates were titled and registered as 1970's, as he claims. You ask me how I know? I have two of them and know of others that are also registered as '69's.~ In the same way as you will find a wide spread registered as 70's or 71's-- I recall a 4000 something titled and registered as a '71! There was a lot of inconsistency back then. Carl, wanna add anything to the above? Correct me wherever I'm wrong, I did this presentation pretty much from memory. Thanks..... All Z Best,..................Ranger Rick

Yo Evan! I'm the Grandpa now, but the lucky one~ 3 of the grands are down btwn Phila and Harrisburg, and the other grandson is up above Bangor, ME. So I get to keep the cars to myself for a few more years, without having to loan them out! Used to be in every Z Club I could find back in the 70's, but due to attrition they all disbanded. But 2 months ago two local Z owners dug us and our cars outa mothballs, so now we're back on the trail again. Been in Z's virtually since the beginning and was w/Bob Sharp for 2 years, but frankly I've forgotten more than I ever knew! But if any of it comes back, I'll be glad to share it w/you. Check into the CT Z Car Club website (CTZCC), we have some guys who are geniuses on those cars! All Z Best,.............Kathy & Rick

I'm still assessing things. The data plate on the L/H door jamb doesn't look transplanted, so if the #'s match w/the data plate on the R/F inner fender well and the VIN plate on the L/H side of the dash, I would conclude that the basic structure is indeed a "69, #456. But then I look at the L/H door, which is red, not white, therefore a replacement. It looks like #905 red which would be from a "69-'71 Z, as opposed to the #110 persimmon red from 72-73. But it has a red interior panel; the early red Z's had a black one, white Z's had a blue one..... Ranger Rick 2-1969's & 1-1970 (sold the 1971)

Yo Alan! You're absolutely right, I should have prefixed the referenced VINs w/HLS-30 to be completely accurate. Having not traveled much other than a couple of times each to Viet Nam and Korea while in the Army, and not having seen a single Z car in either, I admit guilt for forgetting that there are Z's in other countries too, and that they have different VIN prefixes. Please forgive!!! All Z Best!............Ranger Rick l969 HLS30-00013; 1969 HLS30-00171 (28K orig miles); 1970 HLS-30-06289 orig owner

Looks like it might have got popped hard in the L/R at some point in time. The L/R quarter panel looks like it has the flow-thru air porthole in the "C" pillar which did not come in till about VIN #21000 or so. Also, the hatch glass didn't have a vertical defroster until about #965 or so (1/70). Which suggests these parts have been replaced for some reason...... But I would still consider it at the right price....... Carl Beck, whaddya think??? All Z Best..........Rick

Interesting thread. Everybody above has some accurate inputs, but as was hinted a couple of times, it is a far-from-exhaustive list, even though it was contributed to by several people. I could add numerous items , but instead I will interpret the question a little differently: "IF I SEE A 240-Z PARKED, OR IF I PASS ONE ON THE STREET, HOW CAN I TELL WHAT YEAR IT IS?" The point being: we can't go disassembling somebody else's car or go poking around inside or under the car, or under the hood, to see some of the engineering changes. Particularly if it is in motion. Very bad for your health, in fact, it could end your Z-watching forever. 1969: No tinted glass, no rear window defroster, gas door tab vertical when closed. Highest VIN I observed: #00418, 11/69, although I am confident that it goes at least into the 500's because of other available data. Lowest VIN I observed w/vertical defroster: #00965, 1/70. 1970:Tinted glass, vertical rear window defroster, different gas door tab, horizontal when closed; continuation from 1969 of flow-thru air outlets on hatch. 1971(early):Same as 1970 thru 1/71, after which the flow-thru air outlets were moved to the upper quarter panels. Highest VIN I observed (early '71,= Series 1): #20231, 1/71. Lowest VIN I observed (late '71,= Series 2): #22021, 2/71. 1971 (late): Flow-thru air outlets on upper quarter panels (see above). 1969-1971 had the early style wheel covers, but most people converted to alloy wheel rims. 1972(early): Same as late "71, but teardrop-style wheel covers introduced. Latest VIN I observed w/vertical rear window defroster: #57328, 12/71. 1972 (late): Teardrop-style wheel covers; horizontal rear window defroster. Earliest VIN I observed: #65065, did not catch mfr date, but I believe 1/72. 1973: 5-MPH (extended) bumpers introduced, a dead giveaway. Carried all the way to the end of production and into the 260-Z (RLS-30) model in 1974. Another hint is in the colors available each year. Carl Beck has that info in his ZHome site, or did I see it in the Classic240Z site? Maybe both. Of course a repaint in other than the original color would negate this clue. So you can see that, if you notice certain features in conjunction with each other, it is possible to make a good judgment of where a car fits into the chronology. However, if the car is parked, you can look at the VIN inside the corner of the windshield. If you have a sense for what VIN's were produced during what months/years, you can extrapolate it that way. Or, after ensuring there is not an armed owner nearby, I have been known on occasion to sneak a peek at the data plate on the driver's side door jamb. Nothing like not having to guess!!!!

Based on the VIN you provided I would suggest that the glass w/the vertical defroster is the appropriate one for your particular Z. I base this on my study which began about 37 years ago, in which my incomplete results show that the latest VIN I've seen w/o rear window defroster, w/o tinted glass, is VIN #00418. The earliest VIN I've seen w/vertical defroster is VIN #00965. However, I believe the true transition is somewhere in the 500's based on other information available to me. In any case, your car is well beyond the "no-defroster" group, but WAY before the horizontal defroster group (earliest VIN seen #65065). Hope this helps you! All Z Best.............Rick

Great thread! I read every entry with much interest and enthusiasm since I've been w/Z's almost since the beginning. Arne, Carl, and others had excellent inputs re:recognition factors. I had begun to try to trace the variables for the first few years, then the number of 240-Z subjects available to observe began to decline. But I've begun to pick it back up again since being introduced to Carl Beck, and he and I are exchanging information. I usually depend on VIN number to establish my dividing lines, although this is not 100% accurate due to events that may occur during the production of a particular car. But I will share these observations to help everyone as best I can (all VIN are HLS-30:) Latest VIN w/o rear window defroster, no tinted glass: #00418 11/69 George Panko Earliest VIN w/rear window defroster, tinted glass: #00965 1/70 Joe Novak It must have been envisioned to provide a rear window defroster at a later date since the '69's had a blank in the console where the switch could be installed, as it was in '70. Latest VIN w/flow-thru air outlets on rear hatch: #20231 1/71 Earliest VIN w/flow-thru air outlets on upper quarters: #22021 2/71 Bob Iriye The problem of swirling exhaust gases leaking into the cargo area was resolved by relocating the flow-thru air outlets to a less susceptible place. Latest VIN w/vertical rear window defroster: #57328 12/71 Andy Lesick Earliest VIN w/horizontal rear window defroster: #65065 1/72 The problem of a narrow field of rear vision after defrosting was rectified by reorienting the rear window defroster elements 90 degrees to horizontal. The specific production dates and VIN numbers on either side of each transition is somewhere between the upper and lower dates/VINs found so far in the study. All Z Best........... Rick

Hey, JohnnyO!! We stumbled across your thread and have an input. Color code #920, Safari Gold (which we always called Butterscotch) goes at least all the way back to 1969 Z #HLS30-00013 (which is that color), and was a popular color till the end of the 1971 model year production. It didn't carry over to the '72's. I can't say if any of the prototypes or mules were #920 or not, the only one I know among the first 12 is #00006 which was originally #908 dark green. This doesn't help match your paint, but we just thought you'd like to know. All the best, Kathy & Rick

Wow, that is awesome! My favorite color, too (Mustang, VW, or code 51 Corvette yellow will do). Too bad you are halfway across the country, my '70 #06289 is still pretty good, but could use a floorboard, a dogleg, and some paint. On the other hand, I could always bring it out on the trailer behind the Pathfinder for a good quality job... Rick (of Kathy & Rick from Central CT)

Hi, Everybody! My first entry on this network is to agree with my friend Carl Beck. I'm practically a charter member among Z owners and still have my 1970 #06289. At that time muscle cars were about the only ones with 4-speeds or an A/T that could take the torque of a 426 Hemi. Other than little economy cars. 5-speeds came in some of the hot little European numbers like my Dad's Alfa Giulietta Spyder. Little old ladies, 90-somethings, millionaires, yuppies, and lazy folk accounted for most of the A/T crowd. The guys with Z cars who wanted a 5-speed usually got one out of an SRL-511 roadster and did the conversion.. I couldn't find one in good enough condition, so I bit the bullet and spent several months pay on a Competition Department 5-speed. I went ahead w/an 800kg clutch, roller bearing pilot bushing, and R200 (3.90 limited slip) as long as it was apart. 5th gear is a 0.854:1 ratio, which gives me about the same final drive ratio as the original (1.00 4th gear thru a 3.36 differential). This setup gave me the same 25 or so MPG on the hwy, with a lot more dig off the line, a better choice of RPM/torque selection for various situations, AND A WHOLE LOT MORE FUN SHIFTING MY OWN GEARS!!!!!!! I was in Sales with Bob Sharp at the time the 280-Z came out. The 75's and 76's had 4-speeds and the 77's were the first ones w/5-speeds. Rick (of Rick and Kathy)