the_tool_man

I'm going to put in a new fuel filter and a fuel pressure gauge. If nothing else, this will rule out fuel supply issues. The engine revs fine. The plugs are sooty (see pic), indicating running rich. So I doubt it's a fuel supply issue. But it doesn't hurt to check. Like I said. It'll be a couple of days before I can get to it.

I'm not sure. My connector has no wire, and doesn't appear to have any provision for one. I think it used some other retention method. Good news about reusing the wires. Thanks.

This is taking longer than I thought. I didn't get much time to work on it this weekend, due to some issues that came up. But tonight, I went through the temperature sensor circuit. I drained the coolant and removed the sensor. It checked out, reading 3.5 kOhms in my ~55 degree shop. I could even get the resistance to drop by holding the end with my fingers, as you would expect. I cleaned the bullet connectors in the harness over the intake, and checked continuity in the harness where I could. Once I did that, the resistance at the ECU plug read correctly. I was very hopeful that I'd solved it. I refilled the coolant. I pulled the spark plugs. They were completely covered in carbon, from running rich I think. I cleaned and reinstalled them. The connector on the bottom of the AFM wouldn't stay plugged in (I think it's broken). So I used a couple of crossed loops of wire ties to hold it. I hooked up everything, crossed my fingers and turned the key. No difference. At idle, it stumbles and dies after a few seconds. I can rev it to 2000rpm, and it'll run, badly. The search continues. Next session I'll try the cold start valve and clean all the other connectors I can get to, etc. My next opportunity to work on it won't be for a couple of days. That's a good thing, as I'm so discouraged, I don't want to look at the car right now. I did get the car titled and insured today. That's something, I guess.

Thanks S30driver. That looks like the ones I saw on Ebay, too. Not looking forward to soldering all those wires. But that beats my current solution, which is wire ties wrapped around the AFM to hold the connector on.

Hi all: I searched here for the answer, and I Googled a bit for a source. But no luck so far, other than Ebay, which has connectors that don't look the same as mine. I noticed on my '77 (that I just bought) that the AFM connector does not seem to have any retaining means in the AFM. If I unbolt the AFM, the connector falls out as soon as I move it. I'm concerned the connector will fall out while driving. Is there a source for a replacement connector, aside from getting an entire harness? I can't even tell what is supposed to retain it. But I assume this is not an uncommon issue. Before I shell out $300+ for a harness, I'll explore a home-made solution. But I'd rather replace the plug (or whatever retains it if that can be retrofitted). Thanks in advance, John.

First, I visually inspected all of the vacuum hoses. I couldn't find anything wrong with any of them. I even removed the large hose from the valve cover and intake coupling behind the AFM, just to make sure (losing part of the wire hose clamp in the process, grrrr). All looked good. Second, I performed the "yogurt cup test". I'm not sure that really does anything. After using a yogurt cup, of all things, to block the intake, and taping over the T fitting on the vacuum hose to the valve cover, I disconnected the brake booster vacuum line at the firewall connector, and used some clear vinyl tubing to pressurize the intake. I found that it built pressure immediately, until I felt something give way, and then had a constant leak accompanied by a trumpet sound. When I sucked on it, it would pull vacuum immediately and hold it. I'd let the end of the tubing suck against my lip for a few seconds, just to make sure. The weird thing is, I could remove the oil filler cap or the plug in the end of the hose to the valve cover, and it made no difference. So I don't know any more than I did. Next I pulled the ECU connector and measured the resistance of the coolant temperature sensor circuit (pin 13 to ground). It measured 13MOhms, essentially open circuit. That's not right! Tomorrow, wife permitting (it is Valentine's day after all), I'll check that circuit as suggested.

Progress. It runs! Sort of. I removed the AFM, and after opening it, realized it had been messed with. The glue blob on the locking screw was broken. And it looks like the black gear has been adjusted 6 teeth clockwise from where it should be. At least that's what the white marks on the body of the AFM and the black gear seem to indicate (see photo). I went through the electrical tests, and found that the fuel pump cutoff circuit was intermittently open. A quick pass over the contacts with some emery paper and alcohol fixed that. Everything else on the AFM checked out fine. The air passage was dirty. So I cleaned it. I decided not to attempt any adjustment of the black gear yet. Anxious to see if that fixed it, I reinstalled the AFM and started the car. As long as I gave it enough throttle to maintain 2000rpm or more, it ran. But it sputtered and smelled sooty like it was running rich. I tried the "fingering" test with the AFM to see if I could effect the mixture. But it didn't seem to make any difference. I ran it for about 15 minutes, letting it warm up. I'm not sure why I did that, other than in the hopes that running that Star Tron through the injectors might clear things up. It didn't. Still, now that I can get it to run, I've eliminated fuel pump and ignition as the source of the issue. Now I can go through the troubleshooting process to get it tuned. Tomorrow, I pull the wheels and get them re-shod. EDIT: I just noticed the last several posts with good ideas for easy stuff to check. I'll test for vacuum leaks and bad connections tomorrow. I'll also look at the plugs and see what that tells me. Be patient with me. I've not spent much time tuning pre-OBD cars. Stay "tuned", lol.

My thoughts, exactly. Don't forget, we got the engine to run by mechanically forcing the AFM vane open.

Thanks for all the help. I've still not carved out much time to work on the car. I did get the mildew stains on the bottoms of the door cards cleaned up. I "Lysoled" all of the hard surfaces inside the car and left the windows open to let it air out. Regarding my learning, I've downloaded copies of the FSM, 280Z FI book, 1980 EFI bible (seems redundant), etc. I read the first section of the 280Z FI book, and have read the AFM calibration website (though the HTML seems to be messed up, causing much of the text to overlap images toward the bottom of the page). I've also ordered a Haynes manual, though it'll be somewhat redundant. And I've spend a little time locating the various EFI components in the engine room (I love that the FSM calls it "engine room"), checking for loose connections or PO modifications (finding none of either). My AFM appears to be un-tampered with. I assume the black cover is glued on, and has to be pried off (amazingly, I haven't found instructions for that anywhere. I guess it's one of those intuitive things people just know). One thing I did note was that when I start the car, it dies after a few seconds no matter what the throttle setting. Whether idling or revved to 3000 rpm, it dies. I can't imagine there would be a vacuum leak big enough to allow the AFM flap to remain closed at 3000 rpm. That's easy to visually verify, once I arrange for a helper to start the car for me. If it is staying closed, I think its stuck from being dirty, or held closed by a broken or misadjusted AFM. If neither of those, I'll look for leaks. Weekend plans include (in order of priority): Take the wheels off and get new tires installed (old ones are dry-rotted). Visually check operation of AFV flap. If sticking, clean air passage and attempt to lubricate pivot. What lube should I use here? I don't want to foul electrical contacts inside the AFM. Depending upon the result, I'll open the AFV cover and go through visual inspection and calibration as advised. One thing that wasn't clear to me. Can the electrical measurements be made with the AFV in place? It looked to me as if they cannot. If I remove the AFV to test it, I'll do the "yogurt cup" test to check for a vacuum leak. Might as well while I can. While the wheels are off, I'll do a thorough inspection of the suspension and brakes. Might get the brakes bled, too. I suspect the rear cylinders are leaking, as the reservoir for the rear is low. I already will have to rebuild the MC, as it is leaking out the back against the booster. But that won't happen this weekend. If I get all that done, I'll be pleasantly surprised. My weekends get filled with lots of unplanned activity, lol. Thanks again for the many suggestions. Regards, John.

Wow. That's a lot more work than I had imagined. I never noticed how different the 240 and 280 front ends were. Thanks for sharing.

I haven't had much time to work on it yet. But I fixed the clock. I set it to the correct time and it magically started working, lol. And I got the balky passenger door latch to work properly again. It just needed a little lubrication. I'm almost to the point of removing the AFM, having removed the intake hoses from it. Tonight, I'll dive into the AFM. If I get it running, I'll let it warm up and do an oil change.

For now, I just want to clean it up, get it running and enjoy it as is. I'll explore minor mods to improve engine performance while retaining the FI. I'd like to swap over to 240 bumpers pretty soon. Long term, I'd like to remove the sunroof and the body side molding. But that'll have to wait for a full repaint. It's funny; while I was searching I was thinking about lots of mods to modernize and customize one (lowered, triple webbers, custom interior, etc.). But this car is so original, I feel a bit of obligation to preserve its originality. So I'm going to have to consider my options for a while. I have an introductory thread linked below which might be a more appropriate place for this discussion: http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/53262-new-owner-of-77-280z-from-upstate-sc/

True. It'll never be finished. My '98 Cobra was never finished up until the day it got hit in 2012. But to get this running and drivable will be a piece of cake compared to the Sunbeam.

I forgot to mention that until I brought the car home, I had no idea that my neighbor is a Z enthusiast and ex-owner. He knows local guys with spares, and has offered to put me in touch with them in case I need anything. One thing I have to say about this is the much larger community this car has over the Sunbeam. Me: "I have a Sunbeam Tiger." Them: "A what? Didn't they make toasters?" Me: "I have a Datsun 280z." Them: "Cool! I (insert story about owning one, driving one, a friend who had one, always wanting one, etc.)" This is going to be fun.

Hi all: Like the title says, I just bought a Z! From the time I was in high school (early '80s), I've wanted one. At the time, I drove a hand-me-down '77 Celica (not a bad car, either). But I really wanted a Z. I bought a Sunbeam Tiger project back in the early '90s, and had been slowly restoring it. But I finally got tired of sinking the time and money into the car. I never did finish it. I sold it in December, and started looking around for something else, determined to buy something that was already drivable, and not in need of bodywork. My wife was adamant that I not buy another car that would sit in the shop for 20+ years like the Sunbeam did! While searching, I came across a few Zs on Ebay, that rekindled my long-dormant desire for one. So I watched and waited for the right one. There always seemed to be something wrong: rust, swapped engine, ugly body kit, ugly color, too far away, too expensive, etc. I wasn't looking for a perfect car. But most were trashed pretty badly. Then I came across a Craigslist ad for a '77 about an hour away from me that looked appealing. It appeared to be in good shape. The price was a little high, I thought. But I decided to call the seller anyway. He described the car as complete and original with no rust, factory AC that worked, etc. After a long talk, he revealed that he couldn't get the car started, and he'd knock $3500 off the price if I'd just come get it. I knew I couldn't go see it until the following weekend, so I offered to send him a deposit if he'd hold it. He said he'd hold it for free. That was the longest week of my life. I spent that time researching what could have kept it from running, including seeking help on this forum. The seller had convinced himself that the fuel system needed to be restored, which is why he dropped the price so much. I hoped for something far easier. But first, I had to see if the overall condition of the car was good enough. Finally, Saturday came. I rented a car trailer, and took a friend. I took a bunch of tools and diagnostic stuff, thinking I'd try to figure out the problem with the car. But on the way, I realized that if I fixed the car, the price might go back up. So when I arrived, I decided to evaluate the car, and take a chance if it looked promising. Boy was I nervous! The car was in a metal barn, behind a dead golf cart and a big air compressor. The seller restored old tractors, and had quite a collection. Finally, I got my first look at the car. As soon as I saw it in person, I was impressed by the overall condition. The light blue paint looked nearly new. The seller (second owner) said it had been painted. But the only way I could tell was from a small amount of overspray on the underbody coating beneath the floor. There were a couple of pea-sized bubbles in the paint. But otherwise, no significant rust that I could find. The interior appeared to be completely original and intact. The dash (probably cracked) had a cover on it. The power antenna and clock were broken. But everything else worked. The seats looked new. The carpet was pretty good, except for a little fading in the back. The car was essentially a time capsule, complete with spare, toolkit, everything. Probably the biggest negative for me was the aftermarket sunroof someone had installed (as was common in that time period). But everything else about the car was so good! I tried starting it. It started immediately. But it would die a few seconds later. Still, it built oil pressure and sounded good. It was so hard to contain my excitement at this point. We talked about how much work it would be to clear a path to push the car out of the barn. We also talked about how much trouble it would be to get the title work done, due to the notary he knew being 15 miles away. I must have looked annoyed, because he dropped the price some more. Then I decided to buy it, and we shook hands. After getting the paperwork done and loading the car up, I could see the seller was pretty sad. I think he had seller's remorse. I promised to keep in touch with him, and let him know what happened with the car. He offered to buy it back from me if I ever wanted to sell it. We stopped on the way home and put a dose of Star Tron in the tank, along with a fill-up of premium fuel. While at the gas station, several bystanders commented on the car. That was fun. When we pulled up at my house, my friend talked me into trying to get it running, so I could drive it off the trailer. After posting here, I'd learned that the likely culprit was a dirty AFM. So we removed the air cleaner and used a piece of wire to push the AFM flap up a little. I started the car, and it ran, and it kept running! I brought the engine up to temp; no smoke, no odd noises, no leaks, just the smooth burble of that lovely straight six. With a little fiddling, we could get the wire to stay put well enough to drive the car off the trailer and into my shop. I felt like the luckiest guy on the planet. So I've ordered various manuals and books already. I've got a set of tires ordered. And I'm about to start cleaning the AFM. I've started my "must do", "should do" and "want to do" lists. I'll update this as I go. And I'm sure I'll run into issues. But I'm pretty happy with my decision. I can't wait to drive it. Here are some photos.

I want to start by saying thank you to everyone who helped. The suggestion of checking the AFM was spot on. There's a long story that belongs in its own thread. But basically, I evaluated the car enough to convince myself of its condition, and that the engine was likely in good condition (i.e. test starting, verifying oil pressure, etc.). I didn't attempt to further diagnose the issue. Instead, I bought the car at a low price, since it wasn't running, and trailered it home. When I got it home, we removed the air cleaner, and pushed open the AFM flap with a piece of wire. The engine started and idled smoothly. I was able to get it to run well enough to back it off the trailer and into my workshop. I'll get to work cleaning the AFM and go from there. I'm excited to finally be a Z owner (see pic), and glad to have found you guys. Thanks again.

In the US the same type of valve, when used on car and some bicycle tires, is universally called a Schrader valve. Because the ones on fuel lines and a/c lines work exactly the same way, I call them the same thing. I can't say whether the term, when used outside of tire valves, is standard or not. I'm belying my US bias here. Apologies if my use of the term confused the issue.

Yep. See photo. My fuel pressure gauge is fitted with a female socket to thread onto a Schrader valve. Glad to know that won't work in time to get a different one.

BTW, I take it from the photos there isn't a Schrader valve for the fuel pressure gauge? What diameter fuel hose should I take? Thanks.

Thanks for the help, guys! That gives me a few things to check. For the record, I'm used to late model cars. So it'll take time for me to figure out a car that doesn't use a MAF, IAC valve and OBDII trouble codes, lol. I have a lot of reading to do. Thanks again. Regards, John.

Hi all: First post, so go easy on me. I don't own a Z yet. But I'm going to look at one (a '77 280) that may become available for sale. Current owner says he let the car sit for a couple of years, and the fuel went bad. He drained the tank and refilled with good gas. The car will start, but won't run for long before shutting off. He says it starts right back up and then dies again. He and I discussed, and theorize that there is crud (probably rust) in the tank getting sucked into the tank outlet screen and clogging it. If that theory is right, I assume the tank needs to be cleaned out, and maybe coated to prevent rust. I'm only beginning to learn about these cars. So I don't know what else to look for. It seems that the fuel pump works, and the engine otherwise has spark, or it wouldn't start at all. I'm going to look at the car on Saturday. I plan to take a fuel pressure gauge, starting fluid and a spare fuel filter. What else could be wrong that can be tested without too much trouble? I'm hoping for an easy fix if he decides to sell it to me. Thanks in advance, John.