Captain Obvious

Yeah, you're right. There's the possibility I was looking at the starting issue with somewhat rose colored glasses. I've not used a flat top car in the dead of Pennsylvania weather. The Z's were always fair weather cars. So, I'll temper my statement above to point out that I've had great experience with starting the flat tops from Spring through Fall. Cold fall, but fall none-the-less. And I'm sure the winters are way colder in Fitchburg, Wisconsin than they are here. Thanks for keeping me honest!

Here. I got this for you: And if I were there, I'd buy you a real one.

Wow does that ever sound like a bad idea!

Thank you all for your service. I was registered for the draft during one of the active conflicts, but my number didn't come up. So thanks to all those who's number did come up as well as those who served without being drafted!

Yeah, I'm thinking a whole bunch of little vacuum leaks. Can't quite tell from the pic, but one of the rubber tubes leading to your throttle opener device looks questionable. Like it's split down where it connects to the intake manifold? Anyway, everything needs to be airtight. Especially with the flat tops since you cannot simply crank the nozzles down to mask vacuum leak issues like you can with the round tops. So were you able to retest the compression with the chokes open? As for the coil voltages... It depends on where the points landed when the engine stopped spinning last time. If the engine stopped with the points open, then you should see 12V on both sides of the coil. However, if the engine stopped with the points closed, then you should see less. Five volts might be appropriate. You end up splitting the battery voltage between the ballast resistor and the coil. Probably fine. And just to poke a little, the flat top cars I've worked on start pretty much instantly even when cold. You don't have to crank and crank. Second or third compression cylinder and it pops. So while that's not really a legitimate comparison to where you are yet, it's at least a goal.

I've not been inside a Z transmission so the only input I have is generic transmission stuff. The only thing I see is there is some gear chipping on the reverse gears. Probably either from shifting into reverse while the internals are still spinning (clutch dragging a little maybe) or from clipping reverse on a downshift from fifth to fourth. Other than that, what I see looks like normal wear and tear on transmissions internals. If it sounds good and shifts smooth, I wouldn't dig any deeper.

Haha!! We're Classi!

I was thinking more like beating a dead... Know what? Forget I said anything.

So if we keep bring it up over and over again and talking about it incessantly... What do they call that?

You are clearly way smarter than I am. Didn't finish today. I cut it twice and it's still too short.

Man...... That's too bad. Maybe you can pull a Radar O'Reilly?

I understand! Our Family Truckster is a first gen Highlander. It's almost at 250K and, while it hasn't been bulletproof, we've certainly got more than our money's worth out of it. Way more. I'll be working on it later today... Exhaust rusted into two pieces. The real solution is to buy a new pipe for $1300. Of course, me being the cheapskate I am, I am hoping to do something a little easier on the wallet. I bought an aftermarket piece for $60 and have cut it apart. The plan is to weld the new end to the original part and get out of this for way less than $1300. Undercar welding. My favorite.

Haha!! Glad to hear your drive home from Zcon was less whiplashy than the trip there. For those of you who weren't at Zcon and haven't heard any of the stories... Once you got @wal280z's car up to cruising RPM, it had two throttle positions: 1) Accelerating, and 2) Face through the windshield There was no in-between. Digital. So there is clearly a couple issues going on that made it very uncomfortable to drive. (As a side note, I'm thinking it's something like high intake vacuum from a freshly rebuilt strong engine and a BCDD that is not working at all.) But it wasn't the time or place to fix the real root problem(s), but as a bush fix, we disconnected the TPS connector. That way the ECU would not know that the pedal was in the idle position and would not trigger the fuel cut. It was a successful Band-Aid that made the car a lot easier to drive. Didn't fix the problem, but at least masked it enough to make the car a lot easier to drive. So, Wayne... I'd be happy to help you with a cable conversion, but you've got other things you need to work out as well! Of course, I'm touting my throttle body conversion in conjunction with the cable. With the two of them, my car is the smoothest ever. I wish I had it with me in Atlanta so you could have given it a try!

Nice! And 18 MPG to boot!!

Wait... Am I the only one now without a set of Vidmar or Lista cabinets? Oh the inadequacy!!

Yeah, with no restriction in the line, I can easily see the pump being able to move fuel from one jerry can to another pretty quickly. That's good news.... Your fuel pump works! The carbs were consuming a tiny bit of that fuel along the way, but most of it was just being pumped from one can to the other. I also do not believe there is an "on purpose" fuel pressure relief built into the mechanical fuel pumps. They have a pair of check valves that just won't work without enough pressure differential across them and the pump will loose efficiency. I haven't been inside one of the original pumps, but that's my read. The "real" solution to the problem would be to install a fuel pressure regulator. That can be in the form of a restriction in the return line, or can be something more glamorous like a real regulator that works at carb pressures. In any event, it sounds like you're well on your way to a solution. Good luck!

Excellent! Should be a lot easier to work on it in NC. You found a dry garage bay for it, right?

Yeah, those compression numbers aren't stellar. Did you have the throttle blocked to WOT while doing the compression test? I do not believe that running rich would make up for poor compression. If you're running all the original hoses and stuff, I wouldn't be surprised at all if you've got a whole bunch of little vacuum leaks. Little leaks like that are killer at idle. Much less of a contributor at higher throttle positions, but a real problem at idle. You want every molecule of air passing through the carbs, not around them. The extra hoses and connections and complexity make it more difficult to achieve that with the flat tops. Also remember than none of the carb systems work great until the engine is up to temp. If you're starting the engine cold and expecting to be able to immediately take the choke off, you're kidding yourself. You'll need some choke (and the associated idle boost it provides) until the engine warms up. Next, if I were doing this, I would try to simplify the system to get things tuned... Remove the air cleaner and plug the appropriate connections. You should be able to remove and cap the anti-backfire stuff, the idle compensator stuff, and the intake air damper control snout lines. You can temporarily live without any of that stuff and disabling them will remove a bunch of potential leak areas.

And I keep meaning to tell you... It was great meeting you at Zcon my friend! I really enjoyed our discussions and I hope we get another chance to get together in the future!

Looks great! There has been some multi-sided discussion in the past, but I would suggest removing the paint from the metal-to-metal clamped areas. Things like the axle flange faces. And make sure you don't have any paint where the spindle pin slides in. So did you put in new wheel bearings? I don't remember seeing that go by.

Just a couple additional thoughts and pics. In a few application specific locations, the Civic cable includes some outer layer protective covering (over the cable sheathing). They use these short covering stubs in areas where there is a cable clamp or where there is a high risk of abrasion. It's another outer layer of protection for the cable inside. These areas are held in place (to keep them from sliding up and down the cable) by crimped metal rings. I found the hex crimped rings are usually jussssst loose enough that you can slide the protective covering up and down the cable a little if you really try. Here's one of the protected areas where you can see the metal rings on the ends. I was able to move this outer cover around to get it into a spot where I wanted it: And here's where I wanted it... I nabbed a throttle cable clamp off (something) and attached it to one of the unused holes in my intake manifold. Slid the outer protective cover so it was centered where the clamp would be in the middle. This keeps the cable from flopping around: And earlier, I admitted overkill on my underdash pedal termination lock. If I were doing it again, something like this would be just fine. Put on a washer with a tiny hole in it, and then put one of these on. This one is Dorman P/N 03337. Not as glamorous, but would work just fine. Less than five bucks off the shelf:

Yes, the loop measurements are correct. So... Does the meter draw any current at all on the power lines? Try connecting it with an Ammeter in series with the meter. Like this: Set your Ammeter for the 1A scale. Battery positive to Ammeter positive. Ammeter negative to gauge positive (gauge G/W). Gauge negative (black) to battery negative. If you don't see anything on the 1A scale, knock the scale down a click and see what happens? If it's dead open, it won't draw anything at all. Like 0.0 Another thought would be to watch the needle when you first connect power to the tach. Does the needle bump at all? In similar devices, sometimes you'll see the needle bump a tiny bit when power is initially applied.

Two gallons of gas should provide you quite a bit of fiddling time. Hours maybe? And to answer one of your questions... Yes, the fuel pump is always supposed to supply more fuel to the rail than the carbs need. There is supposed to be a small restriction in the return line of the rail that acts as a rudimentary fuel pressure regulator and allows a small amount of fuel pressure to build in the rail. If you do not have that orifice in place, you'll pump more fuel (in a circle) than necessary and maybe not have enough pressure in the rail to push fuel into the carbs. So I'm not exactly sure what it is you're describing here... When you were running out of gas while fiddling, I know you were pulling fuel out of the jerry can and sending it to the carbs. But how did you have the return line connected? Were you returning to the same jerry can, or were you returning the excess to the main fuel tank?

So about the cable itself... I started with a Honda Civic cable. 96-2000 will work. I think there might be some slight differences in length, but they are all longer than necessary, so it doesn't matter. Here's what I started with: I cut the original pedal termination off so I could pull the cable out of the sheath. I tried a couple different methods and I found a dremel cutting disk worked best for this Just go slow and let the disk cut. If you try to force it through, you'll blue the cable and fray the strands. After I cut the termination off, I pulled the cable out of the sheath and used the same Dremel cutting disk to shorten the sheath. Here's the tool I used: Now, since I cut off the original termination, I needed a way to replace it once I had shortened the cable. Inspiration hit while I was messing with the Dremel... I made an adjustable cable end stop based on the Dremel collet system. This allowed me to set the cable length by tightening up the collet where the length was within the adjustablility range of the lock-nuts out in the engine compartment. After going through the effort to make this collet system, I wouldn't do it again. I would just use a block with a hole through it and a locking screw to squish the cable. Once you have the cable length set, you should never need to adjust this again ever. When I first did this, I had no idea how many times I would need to adjust the cable length to get it right. In the end, I didn't have to adjust the termination more than once and it turns out that I put way more effort into this part than I really needed to. It's pretty though: So here's the whole under-dash setup. Note that this pic has my first design feedthrough for the fireawll with the threads and ring on the other (inconvenient) side. I made as second one with the threads on the other side so to minimize the under-dash wrenching. The collet lock works great, but is really overkill:

Wait... Isn't it clear that I'm pretty much always feeling a little OCD? Thanks for the offer. Might take you up on that during salt season.