motorman7

Thanks Randy. I was fortunate that they had a Preservation Class at this event, otherwise it would have been difficult to even qualify or compete. There are not too many concours that have a Post War Preservation class. I noticed that the Dana Point has Pre-war preservation class, but no Post war. (I am assuming they don’t mean the Iraqi war or Vietnam) I would like to enter that one again as it was worth the entry fee last year just to sit on the fairway and overlook the ocean. There is little possibility of winning though as about 95% of the cars at a concours are restored cars. It’s tough to compete with the two stage paint and triple chrome plated restorations when you’re running 42 year single stage and thin chrome. Jay is probably the only one that I know of that would do well there. It wouldn’t hurt to have some roadsters at these events either. SoCalRoc has a number of nice cars that could do well. Either way, it would be nice to see a little more Japanese representation in the Post War, under 3 litre, category. Both Roadsters and Z’s would qualify; hey even Mazda’s or Toyotas would work. Anyway, thanks again, Rich

Wow, nice looking car! Love the flattops as they are the correct carb for that year. In spite of what others here may tell you here (usually those who have never owned a Z with flattops), they run pretty well when cleaned up. Since it idles but doesn’t run well, I am guessing that the little accelerator pump on the side of the carbs should be looked at and replaced. Could also be old fuel so you will need to clean out the entire fuel system. I had gas ‘globs’ in my flat tops when first purchased. Car ran great once I cleaned them out. The color combo is very cool. Looks like the back panel around the tail lights has been re-painted which makes me wonder what else has been redone. I would keep it as original as possible. For every dollar you use to modify the car, you can deduct that from the current worth of the car. Car can be worth anywhere from $4K to $10K dependent upon rust, previous repairs and other items that are not visible in the pics. Rich PS: a little clean-up on the motor would be sweet

Thanks everyone for the congrats. I am still enjoying the victory here. I did want to add, for those who are considering entering the Concours shows, that there are often a number of great activities that precede the shows that are a lot of fun. Some of those events are included in the price of admission for your car. At the La Jolla event, there was a FREE reception the night before for all of the participants. The reception was catered by some of the top restaurants in La Jolla, and all the drinks were free as well, wine, margaritas, tequila shots, vodka thingies and whatever. The food was incredible and my wife and I went back for seconds and thirds for most items. My wife rarely attends the car shows with me, but she could not stop talking about how awesome the reception was. She called all her friends and sisters and had to tell them about it. When I told her the chairman invited me back for next years show, she said we were definitely going to go…..just for the reception. Anyway, just thought I would pass that on .

I have to say that this has turned out to be a pretty incredible event for me. I got some good air time on local NBC on friday as noted earlier in this thread. However, today at the show I was one of the few featured entrants on the local KUSI station. They actually asked some questions about the car and I was able to tell a bit of the cars background and history on live TV at the show. It was about a one minute spot. Soon after the interview, I got a text from Lenny of ZCSD (Z Club of San Diego) congratulating me on the interview he just saw on TV. And later during the show people said they saw me on TV, so that was super cool. I am now famous. Anyway, I was entered in the preservation class as were the other cars shown below (no Japanese class). I figured the Bentley was first place, but was not sure how the rest would play out. I wasn't really all that concerned as I honestly did not feel worthy to be there among the majority of these cars. So, when they announced the awards, the yellow 450SL got third...then the Bentley was announced as second....and then the announcer began to say, "This next car brought about the demise of the British sports car industry......" Wow, what a rush. This is my first, First Place win at a concours, very exciting. Still don't think it has all settled in, especially given the competition. It really is a great win for the Z community. Hopefully this is an indication of things to come for the Z cars.

More Candy

Just got back from the La Jolla Concours. I will start off with a bit of eye candy here first, then tell you how it went for the Z.

Just thought I'd show pic of the hubcap I picked up on short notice for tomorrows show. Very nice match. It has the extra tangs on the back, but don't think most people will notice - hopefully not the judges. The Air filler hole is in the right spot. That was one of my biggest concerns. Big thanks to Martin in Anaheim.

Thanks Carl! I was glad they got some nice shots of the car during the interview. The vice chairman of the Concours who did the interview really loved my car, which is great. The spot came at a price though, I lost a hubcap on the way there. That was stressing me out as the show is this Sunday. Fortunately, a Z-guy up in Anaheim answered my Craigslist add and was able to set me up with two replacements (one for spare) for $160. And they are near a perfect match. I will post pics of them later. Anyway, with the new hubcap, I am now ready for the show tomorrow. I love pic of yours with you and Peter Brock on the beach! That front view of the car is awesome. Best regards, Rich

Got my Z in a short promotional piece by NBC for the La Jolla Concours http://www.nbcsandiego.com/video/#!/the-scene/events/La-Jolla-Concours-D-Elegance/145159165

I love the pictures. This is a re-post, but this is my Z at the 2011 Dana Point Concours. Entered in the Post WWII-pre 1972, sports cars under 3 liters class.

Hi Bob, No, I was not discouraged at all by your comments. Actually I was really glad you prepared me for what to expect. I just laughed and realized that you really knew what you were talking about. As some have mentioned here, each Concours is very different and judges are looking for different things. In hind sight, I just brought the wrong Z to that event. They would have loved the yellow one. And honestly, the awards are not really a big deal, it’s the atmosphere, environment and conversations that are the best part. I have met famous and well known people at these events. And, it’s amazing how many of them have owned a Z at one time in their life. Always makes for good conversation and a great experience.

They do, that's what keeps me hooked to this thread. Perhaps we can drag this on for years .

I do get the impression that the major shows are starting to give the Japanese cars a bit more recognition. Last year the Palos Verdes Concours had a Japanese car category which I thought was quite significant. It was definitely out of their norm, but nice to see. Espirit placed well in that show. Even with the upcoming La Jolla Concours, I was not planning on entering until I spoke with Les Cannady at Classic Datsun Motorsports. He mentioned to me that someone from the show had talked to him about entering some of his cars. That was definitely a pitch for the Datsun brand, so I went ahead and applied – even though there wasn’t a Japanese category. It will be interesting to see what happens over the coming years. Hopefully, by the time the Z approaches its 50th birthday, Japanese car categories will be common place at the higher end shows. Time will tell.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss Z-cars at Concours events. I know that individual Concours events have been mentioned here on classiczcars.com, but I was hoping to set up a thread that might encompass all of them so that the subject is not so scattered. The goal is to have a Concours thread where people could offer tips, voice their thoughts and opinions, promote local Concours events, and of course show some awesome pictures. First off, entering your Z car in a Concours show is really a mixed bag for us Z owners. I remember excitedly talking with bobc about this subject the first time I was accepted into a Concours show. With sage advice, he told me not to get too excited about it. He told me, “most Concours judges have no idea what to look for in a Japanese vehicle. If you tell the judges that the Z cars came from Japan with blacked out engine bays and V-8s, they would believe you”. Of course I dismissed this comment. Lo and behold, at my second Concours show, the winning Z car entry had blacked out engine bay, a lot of chromed engine parts, and was not even painted a standard Z car color. Oh well, I was warned:ermm:. I still enter the Concours events but try not to get my hopes up too high. The other side of this coin is that Concours events can be quite a wonderful event for the Z owner. At one local Concours event, I was one of the few individuals personally interviewed at the event (broadcast throughout the show on the golf course), I received a car identification placard (brushed aluminum) that is nicer than just about any trophy I have received, and the people that I met and spoke with were great. Not to mention an exceptional goody bag, first class photos and web PR, parking on the fairway with an ocean view, and car positioned near the show entrance so that virtually everyone in attendance would walk by and see the car. I thought I had died and gone to car show heaven:bunny:. Doubt I will ever be in a better show than that. Along with the great shows and bad shows, there is one issue that us Z-car owners continue face with car events. This issue seems to be….…should I say it…..discrimination. Take a look at the judged categories for most major Car shows. Of course you have a wide array of US car categories; Ford, Chevy, muscle cars, etc. There is typically a European car category or specifically German and Italian, or Jaguar, Porsche and Ferrari . But do you find Asian or Japanese car categories? Rarely. It’s almost as if Nissan and Toyota don’t exist. I find that very odd, and they have been selling cars for quite some time. Anyway, not sure if we will ever get a clear answer as to why Asian cars are not in the mix, but definitely feeling a little discrimination. Along this line, I will be displaying my Z in the upcoming La Jolla Concours. The only category that my car fit in was the “Preservation” category. Oh well, whatever it takes. Anyway, just thought I’d set this up and see where it goes. Rich

That statement helps a lot. Was trying to figure out Leon's statement (which is your same point) and this clarifies it. Thanks! (such the educational thread )

I would think that with the needles moved flush with the bottom of the piston that you would correspondingly return the seats to just two turns. As your needle shoulders were beyond the base of the piston, your seats were corresponding lower, 3.5 turns out if I remember correctly? These move hand in hand to provide the correct fuel ratio at idle. This seems to be the opposite of what you really want to do. Given this last bit of information, you do not have a fuel delivery problem; you have a fuel ratio problem. I will propose the KD needles once again. As you can see in the pic, they allow more fuel at the higher RPM's, more than the SM's which don't seem to be doing the trick. KD needles would be a pretty cheap item to check. Best of luck, Rich PS: This is easily my favorite thread on this site.

From the looks of it, that one won't be available for too long. Original owner - that's impressive

OK, got one signed up for the car show. Will probably add the other later. Should be a great time. Looking forward to seeing all of the Z's and Z people.

I like this. Use it some of my motor parts. http://www.por15.com/POR-20-ALUMINUM/productinfo/P2H/

Of course, if you live in Mayberry, they will go "Shazam!"

I think on this test you would want to run it without the dampers. The dampers just effect your ramp up and ramp down. At constant speed, the dampers don’t do much other than maybe minimize oscillations. They mask the difference in the ‘blow-by’ on your test. I was wrong on the springs not helping, kind of. If you were to put a spring with a higher K value in the dome with the better (assumed) seal, this could compensate for the Delta P within the chambers. This really is a GREAT thread by the way. Engineers love this stuff….seriously. Best regards, Rich

My Theory: The needle and seat relative position at steady state condition at 4500 RPM+ is not the same for your two carbs. One is running too lean. The other may be just right. I do not think new springs will fix the problem. So what can cause this disparity? There are a number of items. Difference in float bowl height would cause this assuming both SU pistons rose the exact same height. From earlier posts, it looks like the float bowl levels are equivalent, so this most likely is not the issue. The piston height in the vacuum chamber can vary based on the amount of air that escapes through the piston/wall interface with uniform manifold vacuum. An SU piston with a weaker seal will ride lower than one with a tighter seal at this interface. There are no ‘piston rings’ on this interface so there should be some very real blow by. My guess is that there is too much disparity there. The piston with the tighter seal is ‘riding high’ and running lean at higher RPM’s. That’s why car still has some power, although diminished as you are running 3 nominal cylinders (either forward or aft SU set) and 3 intermittent cylinders as some fire with the higher fuel ratio and some don’t. There is a balance tube on the manifold between the two SU carbs, however, at the higher RPM’s I do not think it has much effect on fuel mixture balancing. Actually It probably has no effect at all on fuel mixture balance. It is more for pressure/vacuum balance. This leads us to the Oxygen sensor. The sensor measures the product of the six cylinders and cannot differentiate between the forward three cylinders and the back three cylinders. It can provide an overall result, but cannot tell you whether the front set (of 3) or rear set is too lean. Based on the assumption of SU piston height disparity, an increase in the oil WT will improve your short term steady state RPM runs; but as the carbs manifold maintains a steady state condition, the pistons will again offset. This also helps to explain the poor performance of the low oil WT as the pistons achieve their offset condition quicker due to the reduced damping. Solution? That’s a tough one as there is probably some difficulty in determining what piston chamber combo is running lean or rich. Maybe you can tell by plug color. Assuming this was evident from plug color, the lean SU piston edge could be lightly sanded (1000 grit) to help equalize the blow by. This would be a trial and error process. Pistons could be swapped within the chambers, this might prove easiest and easy to check. Those are just a few ideas off the top of my head. Anyway, this is my theory. It has kept me pre-occupied a bit here so I thought I would write it down and send it forth. Please remember, this is a theory and not a law. Best regards, Rich

Very nice engine compartment! And I love the flat tops, they are so retro. They do clean up nicely.

I have always installed the SU needles with the base of the unmachined portion flush with the base of the piston.