HS30-H

Sorry, but how have I "answered my own question"? The cars we are concerned with here on this forum are clearly marked as being products of Nissan. You just have to open the bonnet ( hood ) or the passenger door ( on those North American market models..... ) to see the evidence of it. They were quite clearly not sold as the 'product of Datsun'........ I don't fully understand the comments that they were "....sold by DATSUN..." or that they will "....always be Datsuns...". It is quite clear for anybody to see that they were sold by Nissan, and that they will always be Nissans. How about you call them all 'Fairladies', or products of 'Jitsuyo Jidosha Seizo KK', or 'Kaishin-sha'? It really would not be any more inaccurate than saying that they "....will always be Datsuns...."...... Trying to expunge the 'Nissan' name from the period in question seems to me to be some kind of retrospective knee-jerk reaction, based on a simplistic 'Nissan bad, Datsun good' kind of mindset. The ripples caused by slapping that 'Datsun' emblem on the export cars still have not reached the edge of the pond, have they? Alan T.

With respect, it had nothing to do with the United States or North America specifically. Nissan decided on this policy for WORLDWIDE export sales, and even some sectors of its domestic market. It was not exclusively a 'USA thing'.............

Well, there you are! Of course I didn't know Fred Jordan's wife was called Betty! Strike one! Learn something new every day. Face properly red at this point.

Will, We had 'The Flintstones' over here on UK terrestrial TV in period of course, so I know about Fred, Barney, Wilma and Betty ( although I preferred Deputy Dawg and Top Cat ), but I don't get their relevance to the subject in hand. If I really should know, then consider me red faced already

Well, if this 'Datsun Heritage Museum' is going to be biased towards maintaining "....popular folklore of the USA...." rather than attempting to educate and inform, then I think it is going to be somewhat less than fit for purpose - in my opinion......... I'm not even sure that I fully understand the questions, let alone the answers to them....... :knockedou For example, questions #1 and #12 appear to be pretty much the same question (?). Question #3's reference to "carbureators" (sic) is pretty obscure ( I like to think I know a fair bit about Matsuo san, but I have no idea what the question is referring to ) - so I kind of half wonder whether Matsuo himself would even know what it was all about. Question #8 asks about a "new" Datsun at Beaulieu, but I can assure you that it is distinctly second-hand looking, even after its ( bad ) 'resto' many years ago. Question #14 may seem somewhat cliquey to outsiders like myself..... I like quizzes and cryptic crosswords, but you've got me stumped on most of these. You might want to watch out for inaccurate 'lore' here. In Japan it is perfectly common to strike an oblique line through the letter Z and the number 7, and it is just to help differentiate them from similar shapes ( like the number '2' and the number '1'. ) - just as 280~Master has pointed out. When I first saw this in Japan whilst working there, I asked about it and was told that it originated in German use. The Japanese medical and scientific world was greatly influenced by Germany in the late 19th century ( especially the medical world ) and such things eventually became common use. It makes sense to me. I certainly don't believe that there is any substance to claims that the 'Ƶ' seen on our cars has any special extra significance, and I don't believe that there was anyone working at Nissan who was receiving encouragement from only Yutaka Katayama during the period that the S30-series Z was being designed. Any such story needs to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, and perhaps a little sympathy for the 30-something years in the relative wilderness that the storyteller subsequently found himself in. Alan T.

I'm not knocking the good intention; Any Datsun/Nissan 'museum' - or any attempt to preserve/promote a little of the history of the company is all good as far as I'm concerned...... I honestly think a lot of this story is overplayed and/or misunderstood. I question whether Nissan actually "...wanted to be known as Datsun.". It seems to me that they labelled their export product - and some of their domestic product - as 'Datsun' without any concerted effort to hide the fact that it was Nissan product. And yet, to this day, we still have people talking about 'Datsun' as though it was the company behind the product rather than a badge that had been - arguably somewhat arbitrarily - slapped onto that product. We also get 'Nissan' portrayed historically as some kind of black-hatted bad guys, and 'Datsun' as white-hatted good guys. I'm fairly nonplussed by it all. Is this entity actually going to be called 'The Datsun Heritage Museum' then? Wow..... No offence to anyone involved, but if this is true I find it a really obtuse choice. I'm going to need to have it explained to me how Nissan's history and heritage can be covered properly and correctly under the 'Datsun' banner. Alan T. ( real name Sheila Canth, by the way )

Yes, I am........ :cross-eye Is this the strangest poll yet? As far as I am aware, 'Datsun' ( as an entity, as a company ) never 'came' to the USA. The way that 'Datsun' is being referred to and discussed here makes it sound as though 'Datsun' was the company behind the cars. It wasn't. I quite understand the affection in which the 'Datsun' name is held, but it seems to me that the affection is at least partly rooted in historic misapprehension....... I think the truth is that 'Nissan' 'came' to the USA, and the 'Datsun' name - by that time - consisted of little more than an emblem that was attached to Nissan's products. Alan T.

Ah yes, here: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27319

The kanji reads "Kyoku To", and it translates as 'Far East' Its an 'F.E.T.' manifold, made and sold by 'Far East Trading' - quite a famous name in the Japanese tuning and aftermarket parts industry from the late Sixties onwards. I'm fairly sure that we have answered the same question here before in the past..........

Mike, I'm glad if they help, or if they are at least of interest. Thank you for making the distinction, and remembering the 'other' market models. I think we all learn something from looking at the big picture. The T-shaped slots are for the extra front seat-mount brackets seen on the Japanese market cars. These allowed an extra range of seat positioning - presumably for particularly short drivers. I've never actually seen a car with the seat sliders bolted in to the front mount position, and cars came from the factory with them mounted in the rear as a default position I believe. Funnily enough, I did compare the left and right side shapes to see if one was a mirror-image of the other. In fact they are not. The cutout details are obviously different, but so is the outline shape. I don't know how many people are aware that the transmission tunnel is not actually located in the centre of the floorpan if you use the sill pressings as the outer reference points........ I think these Japanese market rubber floor mats reflect that difference. Their profiles are not the same when one is reversed onto the other. Here are a couple of pics that might help to illustrate what those extra Japanese market front seat rail mounts look like. They are all I have handy at the moment - so they will have to do for now:

Took the two front mats out of the car to photograph them. Apologies for the light quality, but it was raining and I didn't want to get them wet by laying them on the ground outside - so I put them on top of the car. Flash will make them look a bit shinier than they really are, I think:

Mmmmm, that'd be nice. Except the transporter would be worth about 500 times more than what I had to put on it........ :laugh: I need Nissan to step up to the plate and loan me a new tow vehicle. Or maybe they might have one of these left hanging around in a dusty corner:

Talking of 4x4s........... Here's a way of bringing us back on topic somewhat: My tow car. It's a QUATTRO :classic:

The short answer to that is no. The original Japanese home market S30-series Z rubber mats had no logo on them at all as far as I am aware.......... I don't have any photos of mine handy at the moment, so I will have to take them out of the project car and take some shots of them - but they look just like the ones in the photo that 'z137' posted ( apart from the logo of course ) and of course they are for RHD configuration. As has been mentioned, the 'base level' model S30-S 'Fairlady Z' model and the ultra lightweight PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R' model were fitted with the rubber mats as standard equipment. The other launch home market models ( S30 'Fairlady Z-L' and PS30 'Fairlady Z432' ) had full carpet as standard equipment. The same standard specs / trim levels were carried over into the launch of the L24-engined models for the Japanese market in late 1971. However, the Japanese market ordering options allowed the prospective owners of new 'ZS' / 'Standard' models to specify full carpet as an extra cost option, should they so wish. Theoretically, the reverse would also apply - where somebody ordering a 'ZDX' / 'Deluxe' model could specify rubber mats instead of carpets. This would be more practical for mountainous areas of Japan, or territories such as Hokkaido - where the winters are very snowy. I can't think of a Japanese market model - from any maker - that didn't have a rubber mat option. Still true today, I think. If I get time later today, I will pop the rubber mats out of the 432-R replica project car ( a mid-1970 Z-L ) and take some shots of them to add to this thread. Alan T.

Arne and Mike, I understand where you are coming from, and I apologise if my posts become "tiresome" - but can you both see where I am coming from? This is a forum dedicated to a Japanese car, and - at least notionally I believe - an international forum. Of course I understand the natural weight of bias is towards one particular perspective. It goes without saying. But quoting a bald statement about the "design" of the Z that is clearly erroneous is - I believe - to perpetuate a myth. Can you imagine how these things look to the owner of a non-USA market car? Can we all imagine how it might look to the people that designed, engineered and manufactured these cars? Now that I've hopefuly made my point, and have received the obligatory put-down, I'll shut up for a while. Alan T.

Surely the most relevant meaning attached to the 'Z' signal flag - as far as it applies to the story of 'our' cars - is what it meant to Katayama and Matsuo, between whom the vignette took place. If it was not for this little tale, the 'Z' signal flag would have absolutely no relevance to the story surrounding our cars whatsoever - apart that is from the coincidence of the letter 'Z' signal in some uses of the flag. What it signified to Katayama and Matsuo is what - I suggest - is of importance to us. Don't discount the possibility that they themselves may not have completely understood its historical significance. When I asked Matsuo san about it, his explanation - in the most simple terms that I can translate here by way of explanation - was that to him, in the context of the situation in which it was used, it meant "Let's go for it"............. Alan T.

Mike, Whilst I applaud your pro-active efforts to get close to the original story, and the original spec for the early USA cars, can I please make a point here? You quote Brian Pilati's statement that "...the Z was not originally designed with carpets, they came with rubber mats." as though you believe it to be true. I think repeating such statements gives them more weight, and they gradually get taken as gospel. As I previously pointed out in this thread, the Z most certainly was designed with carpets. In fact, both fully carpeted and rubber-matted versions were available from launch. The distinction of course is that Brian Pilati's quoted quote applies to the first HLS30-U models that were sent to the United States and to Canada. It does not apply to "the Z" in general, and especially not to the Japanese home market models - which were just as much a part of the "design" as any others. Can we PLEASE remember to make this distinction when talking about the "design" of these cars, and the peculiarities and specs of different market models? Apologies for the interjection. Alan T.

Yes, It's got the tiny booster. Needs two feet on the middle pedal really! The car is fitted with the Sports Option MK63-20S four-pot 'FIA' front calipers, and the vented front discs. Front pads are special 'ENDLESS' compound that need quite a lot of warming up before they will really bite. Rear brakes are the standard type drums but with the Sports Option linings. Whole driving philosophy of these cars in period ( for the tracks that they drove on ) was one of keeping up momentum. Later in the '72 season they fitted rear discs to the Works cars, which must have helped a great deal I reckon. They also deleted the booster and fitted a bigger M/C on the Works cars for better 'feel'. Must have been hard work to drive in the long races. It could certainly do with more brakes, but I'd like to try and keep it as period-correct as possible. I'm aiming at mid-1971 type spec, which leaves me stuck with the current setup. Personally speaking, I like both old and new. Everything should be taken on a case-by-case basis. If I had unlimited funds I'd have a very varied and 'catholic' collection of both old and new, and of any market sector / purpose. I don't 'see' nationalities of manufacturers as any kind of excuse for complete dismissal or affection. I find it hard to relate to anybody who would say that they "love" classic cars, but then say that "British" cars "don't do it" for them. If you see something that you have never seen before, would you change your opinion of it once you found out what country it was made in? That seems quite obtuse to me. I guess we won't be seeing you at the Goodwood Festival of Speed then? :cheeky:

OK Tomohawk, I believe you. Two for "moompup" then.

That might have been because of the quality of the point making, rather than the point being made. Never mind, at least you bagged one. And Tomohawk doesn't count because I'm still not 100% sure he understood that your point was, er, missing the point. You mean that there was a Mr Nissan.....???!!! WOW. That's one that got left out of the history books. I guess he must be the guy that wrote his name in big letters on the top of your engine, huh? I love these comedy threads. Alan T.

Grumpy? Moi? I'm my usual happy-go-lucky, hail-fellow-well-met self. On the other hand, there's a full moon tonight.....

Any relation to 'Infiniti'? Maybe they should have stuck with 'Datsun'. At least you might have a better chance of spelling it correctly.

"...one of the largest corporate blunders of the 20th Century."? Wow. That's a big statement. Can't take the people who would say something like that seriously. Who are these people? One could argue that the bigger mistake was pinning the 'Datsun' name on a Nissan-designed, Nissan-engineered and Nissan-manufactured product, and hence misleading people into believing that it was a Datsun-designed, Datsun-engineered and Datsun-manufactured product. Such a decision was always going to cause confusion when the truth was revealed. Alan T.

PMC.S = "Prince Motor(ist) Club. Sports" The Prince Motor Company, like many of the Japanese car manufacturers in the late Sixties, made their race teams like little supporters clubs. PMC.S was formed as the Prince in-house race team, and fans could join the club and get extra benefits at race meetings and regular newsletters etc. When Prince were merged with Nissan in 1966, PMC.S became a focus point for sporting Skyline fans in particular. The Skyline factions inside the Nissan organisation kept up the traditions of the club and still used the famous white on red PMC.S stickers on their cars. The 'Works' C10-series Skyline GT-R race cars were entered into races under the PMC.S banner ( so that PMC.S was the 'entrant' rather than Nissan ) and the Works drivers were - technically - employed by PMC.S, whereas the Zs, Sunnies and Bluebirds for example were raced under the SCCN banner ( SCCN = Sports Car Club of Nissan ) which was Nissan's non-Prince faction equivalent. PMC.S and SCCN still exist as clubs, and still organise events for their members. Hope that helped to explain it a little. Alan T.

Carl and John, I'm surprised that you would both pick the KPGC10 over the R35. I have to say that when I saw the 'disguised' R35 last year I wasn't a fan - but since I saw the final production versions it has been growing on me a lot. I think the reputation that it is building for living up to its own hype performance-wise is making it look different. It certainly had enough 'presence' to not be upstaged by much else at the Goodwood Press day........ Hi Alfadog, The car is treating me very politely I have to say. Yes, a couple of new stickers. Some of them are to cover stone damage ( and jack handle damage ) - but others, well, I find it hard not to! Did you spot any other revisions to the car? The front-mount 'Works' style oil cooler was only fitted a few days before the event. I took off the 432R cooler and have requisitioned it for the 432R replica project. Some changes inside too: Deleted the console ( weighs a ton! ) and fitted a 'Works' style switch bracket instead, and added a period 'Izumi' steering wheel that Matsui san kindly gave me. Fitted an untrimmed, black-painted Ikeda Bussan replica seat base on the passenger side. I reckon it looks better than having nothing at all there....... "Interesting" moments? Well, the car was pretty squirrely on the high crown of the road ( it is deceptively difficult a bit further up the hill - as the surface undulates a lot ) and the road was really dusty on the first run. Looking in the rearview mirror to see a Group C 'Silk Cut' Jaguar closing fast was heart-fluttering to say the least. Stone-cold slicks are 'interesting' too..... My main impression of the day was the friendly, informed and relaxed atmosphere. Lots of people took the time to come over and have a closer look at the car, and they seemed genuinely interested in the engine in particular. Meanwhile I was wanting to run off and take a closer look at so many of the other cars present. It was a real treat. Alan T.