HS30-H

Chris, I absolutely concur that the wider 'Z Store' project was unique, and that in turn the 'VZ Program' part of it was unique in its wider scope of volume buy-in (the "scale" that you mention) and commissioned restoration for resale. I don't need to concede that because it's a given. What I don't agree with is the ill-informed hyperbole from certain individuals who really ought to know better, and I find that a more measured appraisal - like yours - is better for the marque in the long run. As you point out, and others do not want to believe, in the past other motor manufacturers have restored their own used cars for resale and some continue to do so. That aspect is not "unique". For me, a lot of this goes back to those days when people were talking about "Factory restoration" and leading people to believe this project was something other than what it really was. A lot of people didn't like the clarification being made, but when automotive journalists - who should know better - were themselves believing that the cars had been sent back to Japan and, in turn, misleading their readers, I believe the term "Factory restoration" was an inappropriate term for us to throw around. Is it my imagination or are we doing a better job of describing these cars than we used to? I have to say that your work on rounding up the facts and putting the whole thing into some semblance of order for us has been a great benefit to the legacy of the 'VZ' project, and will have certainly helped this latest BaT sale even if the cast in the sitcom didn't know it. Your data and explanation of the whole story was certainly a great benefit to one Japanese owner whom I passed it on to, and he was very grateful. Good work. Thank you.

Not true. You can split the hairs any way you want about Aston Martin's activities but the fact is that they were selling bought-in (often through trade-ins) factory-refurbed cars long before 2014 and I cited this activity in relation to the "unique" VZ claim on this very forum more than ten years ago. I believe I gave a specific example of one such car too (I even took a test ride in one which a work colleague was considering for purchase). Is this the kind of "drivel" you are referring to? I note you don't have anything to say about Bristol Cars or the other examples I cited. Maybe you're more motivated to prove me wrong than in proving that the 'VZ' program was "unique in automotive history"...? A new member with no feedback, using a pseudonym, sends me a PM asking for a list of 432-R chassis numbers. My spidey senses tingle and I do not reply, considering it better to wait and see. Lo and behold another PM with a snotty retort to the effect that he'd got what he wanted elsewhere and thanks for nothing. Turns out you were planning a 432-R 'replica', right? I'm sure a list of original 432-R chassis numbers would be very useful for that. What could possibly go wrong? I think I was right to be dubious. Dubious is a good default position.

The last five or six years? So when I was posting about Aston Martin Works Service's past and continuing activities on this forum - with relation to the claim of the 'VZ' program being "unique" - more than ten years ago, I was predicting the future? I'll add that to my CV. No, I was stating a fact. The "alternate reality" is the one where the 'VZ' program is "unique in automotive history". Pure fantasy or just more USA-bubble type introspection, you choose. It's the same as the 'conversation' on BaT where nobody is allowed to mention the 432 or 432-R, but mention of the Toyota 2000GT, Honda NSX and even Mazda Miata is just fine and dandy. Deluded. Aston Martin Works Service - just the same as any other UK-based business - do not need any 'license' to sell cars. Especially what are - essentially, just like the 'VZ' program cars - refurbished used cars with their original identities intact. Some people here will no doubt believe you, but it simply isn't true. What 'license', and issued by whom? Nonsense. Noted that we appear to be on first name terms now. Presumptuous of you. Apparently you still call yourself 'Roo', as you did when you asked me to give you data on the 432R. If you had introduced yourself with a feasible and believable name I might have considered it. I think my spidey senses were right.

:Mic Drop:

I'm not talking about the 'Sanction 2' cars. Not the same thing at all. I'm talking about the active buying-in, in-house restoring, then selling-on as 'Factory Refurbished' cars (with a one year warranty) which Aston Martin Works Service were carrying out since at least the late 1970s, if not earlier. It was done because there was a demand for it, and the will to do it. Five or six years? I've brought up the point here on this forum several times in the past, and have brought up the Aston Martin Works Service example (amongst others) in relation to the 'VZ' cars at least 14 years ago.

Your response is a perfect illustration of my bigger point. How do hyperbole, exaggeration and plain old fashioned lies help the cause of understanding, appreciating and curating the history and legacy of the 'VZ' cars? How does telling the truth "minimize" anything?

People still calling the 'Vintage Z Program'/'Z Store' project "...unique in automotive history..." and that "No other car manufacturer has ever undertaken anything even remotely like it." Why does this misconception seem to be such a precious part of the story to so many people? Call it out as false and it's like you're some kind of apostate. Why? Bristol, Bentley, Morgan and - most prolifically - Aston Martin all undertook similar activities (Aston Martin still do...), buying back old models, refurbishing/restoring them and then selling them on as 'factory restored' product with a warranty. If British cars somehow don't count, how about East German manufacturer VEB and their Trabant? VEB had a policy of recycling customer cast-offs - as much out of necessity as anything else - all through their production life. You can nit-pick about the small details, but such activities were not "unique". Aston Martin are still doing it today, through their Aston Martin Works Service department: http://www.astonmartinworks.com/heritage-sales/aston-martin-mk1-db6-vantage So are Bristol Cars: https://bristolcars.co.uk/Sales-Post/?permalink=411-restoration Personally speaking, I'm a fan of the 'VZ' cars and the whole project, and the three examples I have seen in person were beautifully turned out cars that anybody would be happy to own. But getting facts wrong and exaggerating the significance of the program in the wider automotive field does none of us any good in the long term. Keep It Real.

One thing's for sure, the original book ('Z: 35 Years Of Nissan's Sports Car', published by Motorbooks in 2005) could do with a re-write. It would have benefitted from some pretty strict fact-checking and photo caption sub-editing before original publication. Being polite, it's not any kind of reference work on the marque.

I don't think 'Lstepp4re' should be too high on your list of Experten... You have world-class 'Z Store'/'Vintage Z Program' knowledge at your service right here on the classiczcars forum, and indeed already on this thread, in the form of our fellow member '26th-Z'. He compiled and privately published what most consider to be the definitive written work on the subject, and I'm sure he would be happy to answer any questions you put to him. If he doesn't have the answer - and he usually will - then he will know who to ask.

He also says he's going to write a new book about the Z, for publication late in 2020. Hope it turns out better than his last one.

Yes but what's the connection with zclub.net? From here: They are two - completely unconnected - clubs and forums.

Where is it?

I don't think the HKS Zero-R counts as a rare *Nissan* product, as it was produced by HKS based on a standard production model R32 GT-R. I'm thinking closer to home, and within the S30-series Z range. Top of the rarity pile for me - and qualifying as a truly special model in terms of spec and details - is the PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R'. Quite, quite different from the PS30 'Fairlady Z432', and only a handful sold to the general public for road use. Certainly less than 20 examples.

One particular personality attempting to dominate the room there again I see. "...IMO since only 38 were built .. they are the single rarest Product sold by Nissan..." Clueless.

Jeff, That gear stick looks awfully, er, long.... (said the actress to the bishop). Is it in fact from a Skyline, like your steering wheel?

I'd go with the plater's offer of 'Yellow Zinc' (they call it 'Gold Passivated Zinc' where I come from) if I were you. It's the most correct finish. Lots of people - even on Bring a Troller - talk about "Cad" plating on these cars, but use of Cadmium was already on its way out in Japan and had been linked to some pretty scandalous poisoning/pollution cases (look up 'Itai Itai Byo'). I believe Nissan and the majority of its suppliers had already dropped its use when these cars were being made. Nissan referred to the plating as '亜鉛' ('A-en') which is Zinc.

What makes you think that the plated engine parts are 'Yellow Cadmium'? Nissan said that it's all Zinc, with differing passivated finishes depending on location and use.

I'm more than ready to learn something new. That's the buzz. And every day is a school day with these cars, isn't it? What I don't get is people being happy to accept anecdotal evidence (from 1973 or something...) trumping primary-source evidence. That primary-source evidence isn't mine, it's Nissan's. We need to be open-minded and pragmatic about this kind of stuff, and we all know that Nissan juggled suppliers to give us endless fun trying to make sense of it 50 years down the line, but I want to see evidence to back up a claim like that. School me! I want to see a photo of one of these sooper dooper Hitachi batteries in an S30-series Z body in 1969/1970.

As has been pointed out before now, comments on BaT auctions are pre-moderated so there are already hurdles to jump before they get thrown in front of the lions for the 'discussion'. How many 'not constructive' flags does it take for a comment to be deleted? Seems to me that its only a handful, so its easy to make it happen even if the comment is on-topic, correct and constructive. Quite a lot of scope there for sharp practice from all sides and a small cadre - or even an individual with several BaT log-ins - can make them evaporate. In fact the whole format is weird. Biggest comments spammer in this car's case was the winning bidder. I'd be interested to hear who your "self proclaimed experts" are. Would they be the type of people who claim that the car in question would have arrived from Japan with a Hitachi battery, and that Yuasa batteries were not supplied until at least 1973? Or are they the people who pointed out that the hood/bonnet is not necessarily correct for the production date of the car, or that the factory blacking of the radiator support panel has not been replicated? Is that "baiting", or fair comment? Plenty of life left in this horse, I'd say.

Tsunamis on the other hand... There's an old Japanese proverb which translates along the lines of "Too many oarsmen will row the boat up a mountain."

Hi Kats, They both look 'period correct' to me, but I find it's often hard to give 100% positive identification on such parts because they tended to supersede the design quite quickly and there could be several versions. Added to which - as you have noted - privateer users tended to have their own theories and experience, and would modify to their own specifications. And then there were copies, and copies of copies. Yours look trustworthy and correct to me. As a reference point, here's a photo of some genuine Works team S20 cam sprockets which were used in period. Complicated!

Unless you know two of these cars with the same prefix and body serial number combination, they are each - by definition - unique.

I have a box full of Hitachi radios (both MW and MW/FM) liberated from UK market HS30Us. If you look at the factory R-Drive Export parts manuals you can see that all the Hitachi audio equipment (including the stereo receivers and the 8-tracks) were available as optional equipment. European sales brochures and spec lists show the Hitachi AM radio as standard equipment.

I rather suspect that you just ate Grandma.

I think you might want to re-punctuate that sentence. It's a perfect "Let's eat Grandma".