HS30-H

My point being that - if you were (for example) a California resident in the market for a '240Z' in 1970 - how would you know what that "HP or Speed loss due to pollution items" was? There was no '240Z' next to it in the showroom without the anti-pollution gear against which you could make a comparison, so it was fait accompli. I'd put money on it being the case that most of those buyers thought they had the full quoted '151 HP' underneath them.

What "delta"? They didn't have anything to compare it to, did they?

Move to a different state? Buy a 911S instead? What? The anti-emissions measures added to the cars in question were not much more than a Band Aid, aimed more at meeting a particular testing standard rather than fully addressing the problem they were supposed to be mitigating. And anyone who was halfway serious about 'saving the planet'/'cleaning up Cali.' (delete as appropriate) could have bought something other than a 2-seater sports/GT car in the first place. Presumably these same "Customers" (love that capital C) 'wouldn't even notice' that the anti-smog Band Aid-equipped L24 in their 'Sports/GT' was paired with a wide ratio 4-speed transmission, 3.3:1 diff ratio, soft springs and damping and no rear anti roll bar? No, sorry. I'm not buying it. I just don't see anyone buying one of these cars in California in 1970 saying to themselves "Hey, I'm happy to have all these extra gee-gaws on my engine because I'm helping to reduce the smog". The fact was that they didn't have any choice in the matter as that's how their cars came, and since they didn't have - unlike Porsche buyers - another variant to compare it to, they simply went with it. Looking their sub-4k (plus dealer 'extras') gift horse in the mouth? Not all that likely, I'd say.

Yes, the 'factory' Nissan parts resemble the contemporary Lotus 'race' parts to my eye. I think there was a difference between the Lotus road cars and the Lotus race cars, and the road car stuff was certainly beefier than the race stuff. The Lotus race FRP parts/bodies I've seen were - I believe - made by Specialised Mouldings (they made for other companies such as Lola and GRD) when Lotus moved premises from Cheshunt to Hethel, whereas the early Lotus roadgoing FRP stuff was sturdier and perhaps not as refined. The quality of the Nissan FRP parts is similar to what I've seen on gliders. I took some original Nissan race option parts to an FRP specialist here in England for some repair work, and they remarked on the quality. They were quite surprised that the parts dated from the early 1970s, and pointed out the finesse in the detail areas. Quite time-consuming work, they said. Here's a couple of photos of a (repaired, and in primer) factory 432-R bonnet: I would imagine - from looking at it - that this was made in two pieces, with the outer skin section made in one piece and then the inner section (with the steel hinge brackets, prop bracket and the captive nuts for the male catch mechanism moulded into it) was bonded to it.

Hard to tell from that photo, and many FRP hoods/bonnets tend to look similar in my experience. Factory FRP parts were a bit of a moving target in any case due to constant evolution, and I've seen design changes on the hoods/bonnets. Construction method and material is one thing, but if you look at enough factory FRP parts you do start to see a vernacular and that can help to pin things down in the same way that the work of a particular artist can be identified by his techniques and even his individual brush strokes. And - like fine art - provenance is very important. Before trying to identify an individual piece you'd want to have some clues as to dates, how it was acquired and where from. Big panels are expensive to ship, and - certainly here in England and I imagine the case in North America - there were plenty of people who could take a mould off a factory steel panel and start producing composite versions for much less than a factory item would cost. I've found the early factory FRP parts to be very nicely made, and perhaps more 'precise' than similar period race/rally FRP items from privateers or aftermarket suppliers. I guess you could say that they are more towards aeronautical type quality rather than nautical. I'll dig out some reference photos. Here's one to start. Hinge bracket area on a factory FRP bonnet. Note the characteristic woven 'cloth' roving and steel bracket bonded into it:

Shhhhhh! Don't let too much sunshine in on the magic. Pointing out that the "Made For USA" cars didn't have 151bhp at the flywheel when installed is like telling kids that there ain't no Sanity Clause. It's cruel.

You think they were added in America because they have no Japanese writing on them? Rhetorical question: Does that belief hold true with other stickers/labels or tags on the cars? How about where the stickers were printed? You think Nissan would print the stickers in Japan and then send them to the USA to be affixed to cars already fitted with the air pumps? Why could they not just affix them to the appropriate cars in Japan? Or do you think the stickers were printed in the USA? I'm not buying it. If the stickers were applied in the USA (where? port of entry?) I reckon we would see all sorts of anomalies in positioning and application, but as far as I am aware we don't. So I say more likely affixed - to appropriate cars - at Nissan Shatai in Hiratsuka. It also has other peculiarities that make its status as a content examplar slightly rocky. Will you be citing it as proof that early HLS30-prefixed cars didn't have radios or clocks? The Yuasa battery and splash pan might get you "not constructive" downvote on BaT should you bring them to the attention of the Experten level portfolio investors over there. "TEHO". As I've pointed out before, the content of the early HLS30Us was clearly somewhat fluid so such a very early example - not sold to the general public and used by Nissan to make the relevant technical servicing publications - is not necessarily what we should use to judge whether what was coming down the actual production line some weeks or months later is 'correct' or not.

Passenger footrest was standard equipment on 'DELUXE' models in Japan, and an extra-cost showroom order option on 'STANDARD' models.

Was that possibly some colour cast on the photos? A reaction of the digital camera's sensor to all the green paint around the sticker? Sticker on my 4/70 HLS30U is certainly dull silver.

'Superleggera'. ? In fact there were many details 'wrong' - especially interior-wise - on this car. It's a little risky to try to pin down a single factory spec for the roadgoing 432-Rs, but they certainly didn't have exposed 918 Grand Prix Orange paint visible in their interiors - apart from the rear deck area - as they were all satin black. It was a little jarring to see freshly painted body colour in the forward section of the interior in this car, and where the missing diamond-pattern vinyl would have been. Many other examples of late 'personalisation' evident on the car too: Brake booster, KS 'Rally Mag' replica wheels, trumpet mesh covers, half-painted rear spoiler, Schroth harnesses etc. I wouldn't kick it out of bed, but some of these things are itches I'd want to scratch...

This is kind of what I was alluding to with my 'de-contented' theme a few days ago, as it seems clear the final specification and content of the earliest production North American market cars was still somewhat in flux even after the start of production. Since tinted glass, HRWs and all the other 'missing' parts (including carpets...!) already existed on other variants, this can only have been due to wrangling over costs and the targeted selling price.

Mike, Whilst I appreciate your effort to create your new 'JDM' section, I reckon you're about 20 years too late. classiczcars.com had been discussing these cars as part of the S30-Series pretty much since you founded the forum, and the content is (I think pretty much inextricably) woven into the tapestry of our historical forum thread content. I can't see how that Japanese market-specific content can be isolated, extracted and given a new home without losing its original context? And what will happen to the conversations from which is has been extracted? Will they too lose their context? I'm not sure I understand. For example, Kats' thread: ...has been running since 2007, is ever-popular, always interesting and - I think I'm correct - one of the most popular threads on this forum in terms of hits, comments and member participation. This thread alone has brought much to the conversation here and has informed and educated in the process. That education works both ways, as I believe much has been learned about both the 'Datsun 240Z' and the 'Fairlady Z432' models and other variants. But how do you distill the 'JDM' content from that?

Great 'survivor' car there, but let's clarify (see what I did there?) the term "clear glass". I think you're referring to a tailgate glass without the demister elements, right? No HRW. Distinction important I think, because many Nissan products of this vintage had a 'Standard' or base specification which included truly 'clear', untinted glass.

Not forgetting that the S30-S 'Z-Std'/Standard model for the Japanese market got the non-defrost rear glass from '69 (HRW an extra cost showroom option on that model) whilst the 'Deluxe' models - PS30 Fairlady Z432 and S30 Fairlady Z-L - got it as standard equipment. I've got a vertical-element heated rear window in the back of the garages somewhere. Standard equipment on UK market cars (guess why). You're welcome to have it. Probably got the switch and harness sections too. You might need it soon. New ice age on the way, apparently...

Yes. As per the title you gave the thread: "Meanwhile, a Z432R sells for $805k in Japan" There's a big, big difference in content, rarity and value between a 432 and a 432-R, so I think it worth making it clear all the way through when writing about them, lest people get the wrong end of the stick. I've already seen it happening. Edited to add: There was no model variant-specific 432-R badging. It was badged the same as the 432 model.

I disagree. First of all, the choice of the word 'Series' clashes with Nissan's own methodology, but secondly these vernacular 'Series' numbers are not accurate descriptors for individual car content. And that's what they are tending to be used for. Example: @26th-Z Chris' HLS30-00026 will be described as a 'Series 1', so what will have been the content of the car when it rolled off the production line in 1969? Would it have had carpets? Would it have had a heated rear window? Would it have had a splash pan? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the answers to those three questions for that particular car would be no, no and no. So are these three details 'Series 1' characteristics? I don't believe they are. And that's without going into the (stop me if you've heard this one before...) 'Made For USA' type mindsets - as seen on the comments for this 310kUSD BaT car - which seem oblivious to the fact that there were other variants, with different content, on the drawing board and on the production line at the same time... I can see why the terms came about - as a necessity to pigeonhole after the fact - but the word 'Series' was a bad choice. Production date, market variant and chassis prefix + body serial number combo are still the best way to define an individual car.

E8100 late 'Europe' type.

Specifically, a PS30-SB Nissan Fairlady Z432-R I've seen some people being confused between the 432 and 432-R. It's worth being vigilant about the distinction.

What's not true? All the factory documentation says that S30 is the Series. Export chassis tags say "Max HP at X RPM". Hardly a lie, is it? If you're looking for stretched truth try the people who misinterpret the figures.

"72 Model" a term used in the Portuguese market? That's not how they were sold there.

But it clashes with the fact that Nissan used the word SERIES to denote specific groups of sub variants, hence 510-series, C10-series, B110-series etc etc, as portrayed by my factory service manual lineup photo up-thread. The whole point of Nissan using the term S30-series at launch was that they considered each of the variants at launch (and therefore through concept, design, engineering and production) to be part of a series. Hence 'base model' is S30, joined by S30-S, PS30, PS30-SB, HLS30, HLS30U/N/V, HS30U etc. Look through any of Nissan's Series line-ups and you will see the same pattern of use.

If only Nissan had given us some clues as to how they used the word 'Series'. Oh...

And I'm trying to get across the point that factory rated outputs are for *bare* engines. A smog pump-equipped, retarded timing anti-emissions L24 simply cannot have the same real world output as an L24 that is not similarly encumbered, even if they *do* have the same output written on their engine bay tags. And gear ratios and diff ratios very much DO have an effect on The Package. The above - different - L24s will perform quite differently in character when they are part of a car, and especially so when one is attached to a wide ratio 4-speed and 3.3 diff, and the other is attached to a close ratio 5-speed Overdrive and 3.9 diff. 432 and 432R were equipped with that close ratio 5-speed and a 4.44 diff with LSD. Again, a package that was well balanced and aimed at the sporting driver.

THIS! Market, variant and production date will usually get us where we need to be.

Katayama gets credited with things he was not responsible for, I point that out, and you class it as "Mr K. bashing". If you're so protective of Katayama san's legacy, how come I never see you piping up when people call him "the designer of the 240Z"? I've said it many times before and I'll say it again: Katayama was a great man - worthy of his 'Motoring Hall Of Fame' place - but to focus almost solely on Katayama is to cast a huge shadow over a cast of many other very capable and worthy players.