HS30-H

Why would I, when you obviously intend to use it as some sort of ammunition?

To what end?

Looks like Mother Theresa still wants to play ping pong. Yes, you've given me parts. Appreciated. But you make it sound like a one-way street. It wasn't, was it? Maybe you need to remind yourself... I know you had an automobile accident, and I'm pretty sure that I - along with many, many others - wished you well. Of course. I don't think you need any help in the advertising department. You are almost literally everywhere, giving it the pile-'em-high-and-sell-'em-cheap schtick. Apart, of course, from where you've been asked not to by admin who understand what is going on... Nope. Here it is again. It seems that you simply do not get the ethical problem with what you are doing. A factory with any ethics would have referred you to M-Speed before starting any business with you involving product which M-Speed developed with them. And you - if it had occurred to you - would have approached M-Speed Japan with a view to working out some kind of deal before approaching their contracted casting foundry. Why would I contact Jamel for the details of the Chinese factory? I'm not interested in the Chinese factory, and have no intention to buy anything from them. They are acting in just the way that we know these Chinese businesses have come to behave, and which - at some point in the future - may well come back to bite you in your nether regions. There's an appropriate Chinese proverb: 'He who rides the tiger is afraid to dismount'.

One last thing. Some years ago I collaborated on a project to make good quality replicas of the Kobe Seiko Nissan Works 'Rally Mag' wheels here in the UK. The casting foundry chosen was a well-known English specialist which still makes parts for Formula One teams. Real craftsmen. After the project, one well-known character (no names, no pack drill) approached the casting foundry and asked them to make a batch of wheels for him using the same patterns. He hadn't wanted to pay the full cost of the original batch despite having had the opportunity, but figured he could subsequently take advantage of other people having supplied the IP, paid for the casting patterns and undertaken all the testing and QC. He thought he was going to save himself a lot of money, and could sell wheels on to make a little profit on the side. But - as any business with any class would have done - the casting foundry told him to take a hike, and to enquire with the owner of the IP and moulds, as the wheels were not the casting foundry's to sell. Ethics, see?

Neither. Unless you count 'China' and 'Aluminum' (Aluminium) as satisfactory. Unless you (or the factory...) have changed anything, these are the same as the M-Speed Japan items. You seem to be bringing them to the table as though the sizes, weights, offsets, PCDs and centre bores were some kind of secret? They have always been available from M-Speed Japan, if you were to ask. You know, like a serious prospective buyer might... Noted. Business seller in the small-ads. Noted. But it's hardly front page news, is it? Ah, now we are getting down to the nitty gritty. You didn't really approach the factory by the front door though, did you? You ferreted out - via a Bulgarian kid who was selling wheels on Facebook - the Chinese casting foundry that M-Speed Japan contracted to make wheels for them. So without M-Speed Japan having supplied the IP and patterns, paid for the setup and prototyping, done all the R&D and everything else - including bringing these wheels to your attention in the first place - you would be nowhere, wouldn't you? M-Speed Japan had a contract with the Chinese foundry which the Chinese foundry now appears to have broken. You have opportunistically jumped in, and - without paying - you are taking advantage of everything that M-Speed Japan have done. What has "the same rate that M-Speed pays" got to do with it? You have no idea of M-Speed's costs, overheads or obligations. You are in no position to comment on M-Speed's situation. I find it hard to believe that you would write this stuff and put it in front of us. Seriously, have you not got anybody around you who you trust and who could advise you on what you are coming out with? Give your head a wobble or something. I've already stated many times that I have NO problem with good quality 'replicas' (insert chosen term here) and have myself collaborated on a project which replicated the KS Rally Mag wheels in Magnesium (and in both 14" and scaled-up 15" versions), so I have a pretty good idea of the process, the work and overheads. This "Alan doesn't want..." thing is in your head, so you need to take responsibility for it yourself. It is nothing to do with me. I've also lived and worked in Japan, with 30+ years of experience. I still work for a Japanese company, and my work involves sourcing, manufacturing and exporting of goods for the Japanese market. I know what it costs to make and source items in various territories, and what they get sold for in Japan (both retail and wholesale). Japanese prices take account of costs and overheads which you - clearly - have no idea of. You have accused M-Speed of "profiteering", but you are in no position to make such a judgment, are you? You've never even been to China to visit your suppliers, let alone Japan. M-Speed Japan are a legitimate business with staff and retail premises in Japan, and you are...? Once again, all of this "writing companion" stuff exists only in your head. Two people saying stuff you don't like to you doesn't necessarily indicate a plot or conspiracy. In fact, it's very likely that Jason has a slightly different take on this compared to mine. And I've met you, used to consider you a friend, and wonder what happened to you lately... You're offering wheels which carry Japanese industry certification marks, but you cannot produce any evidence of these standards having been met. Where's the paperwork? What grade of alloy are these wheels made from? How can you guarantee that? What QC have they been subjected to? Who owns the IP, who paid for the set-up and moulds? What's the legal situation between M-Speed Japan and the foundry in China? What material are they painted/coated with? No answers. I'm sure you'll sell some wheels, but it isn't real business is it? You've been happy enough to return serve on any ball sent your way. Plenty of spin on your shots too. You're hardly innocent, despite painting yourself as some kind of weird combination of Robin Hood and Mother Theresa of Calcutta. LOL, followed by... QED. I'll say it again. You had the opportunity to do all this the right way, and make an approach to M-Speed Japan with a view to negotiating some kind of deal with regard to taking over supply of their product, or even a licensing/commission deal. You didn't. This is why I'm saying you went via 'The Back Door'. You make your Z-Story exhausts in China, so the same thing could easily happen to you. If your exhausts - which you supplied the IP for, and did all the groundwork to create - suddenly start turning up on Facebook and forums like this one, direct from the factory and neatly sidestepping you, I reckon we'd hear you squeak in protest. End-user won't care. Hopefully nobody here would want to be the middle man in such underhand activity. Stay classy.

At this point its looking like I'll need a microscope to be able to spot any sign of your rapidly diminishing reputation. Have you not got any close friends or family who will give you a reality check? Seriously, what has happened to you in the last couple of years? Half of what you write doesn't make any sense. It's comes across on the page like some kind of stream-of-conciousness rant, setting up straw men and knocking them down whilst studiously avoiding the main points. You stated that Jason didn't know that a 7j version (you call it a '432-R' wheel) existed, but clearly he's known for several years since - as I pointed out - he borrowed an original 7j x 14" wheel from me to test fit on his car. You are wrong, right? The PS30-SB Nissan Fairlady Z432-R's standard specification wheel was the 4.5j x 14" TOPY pressed steel wheel, so Jason is indeed right. What you are calling '432-R' wheels were actually developed in 1969 by Nissan - and manufactured for them by Kobe Seiko - for use on their upcoming campaign in international rallying during 1970 and beyond. They have always been known in Japan as the 'Works Rally Mag'. You showed a photo of Nissan's first works 432-R race car in the paddock at Suzuka before its first race in January 1970 to support your assertion, but anyone at Nissan would have said that the 432-R was wearing 'Rally mags'. In January 1970 there was already a works rally 240Z testing in the south of France with multiple sets of the KS 'Rally Mag' on hand, and Dunlop Japan collaborating on tyre choices. Meanwhile, back in Japan, Kobe Seiko were working on 8-spoke magnesium wheels for the works 432-Rs... So once again we do an elaborate dance just to get you straightened out on something that you misunderstood in the first place. If you were smart enough I'd suspect it was some kind of diversionary tactic - just like all this Alan & Jason 'tag team' nonsense (you can't even spell Padawan...) - but it isn't, is it? You're not waving, you're drowning.

Since he's seen the genuine article on one of my cars, borrowed one to try out on his car (brake fit) and has long admired them, I'd say that you misunderstood him. Replicas, 'tributes', evocations, copies, 'fakes', lookalikes, variations-on-a-theme-of? These terms are moveable feasts at the best of times. Shall we try to think of some more labels for them? On the other hand, you seem to be supplying 'REAL Z Wheels' stickers for your customers whilst managing to keep a straight face. Top trolling. Actually, I agree with Ian. They are indeed not quite exact replicas. We discussed this when M-Speed first brought them to market, and the concensus was that they were a good product at a very fair price for the Japanese market. M-Speed's QC and customer service has reportedly been very good. I look forward to you addressing the (many) other questions asked.

....and? What point are you trying to make here? I stand by everything I wrote there. I was comparing the manufacturing costs of the M-Speed Japan wheels with other - Made In Japan - runs of replicas. The M-Speed replicas clearly cost less to manufacture than those previously made in Japan, and therefore M-Speed have been able to set their retail costs lower than the previous replicas were sold for. No exactly rocket science, is it? You took the quotes out of their original contexts, but they still don't support your position.

For heaven's sake Sean, when you make a reply, at least take the time to correctly format your quoting. It's easy. Just highlight the text you wish to quote and a drop-down button will appear.

If it can be registered here in the UK and obtain the correct paperwork (and I think that's a possible with a little work), then there would be nothing stopping it from being imported to anywhere else in the world and road-registered as any other imported old car would. But I think it's a moot point anyway. I feel it will sell in the UK, and probably stay in the UK.

How can you possibly be sure that the wheels you are selling are "of the same quality" as those sold by M-Speed Japan, with M-Speed's stickers and reputation riding on them? I don't see how it is within your gift to vouch for what is going on in a factory that you have never visited, and for a product which you clearly have no paper trail on which to base your statement. Straw man argument. Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years. At least four runs that I know of were made in Japan, and one run - in Magnesium, and including a scaled-up 15" version - here in the UK. Nothing is stopping anybody from making them. You have not paid for the full costs of the wheels that you are selling here. M-Speed Japan did. You're riding on M-Speed Japan's investment. Your moral compass needs a re-set. I've asked you before whether you'd be happy for anyone to approach the Chinese factory which makes your Z-Story exhausts for you, and to start selling them without your permission. No answer. M-Speed Japan are (did you notice?) a Japanese company. They sell their goods in and from Japan. I very much doubt you know what their overheads are, or what their profit margin is, but you seem to be ready to claim that they are "manipulating the public"? How could you possibly be in a position to make that assertion? So, what's next for you? Apple Inc. products at half the official prices? Pfft. They don't need to. There's no current copyright on that shape, as I've already pointed out. Or in your case, the lack of... If you had any class, you would have approached M-Speed Japan and had a conversation with them. Maybe you could have worked something out with them. Nope, just straight to the back door, and all played out in real time on Facebook via the kid in Bulgaria. Garbage. And totally irrelevant too. You have shown photos of the wheels that you are selling, and they clearly carry cast-in logos of JWL (the standards marking of the Japan Light Wheel Alloy Association) and VIA (the Japanese Vehicle Inspection System Association registration). VIA standards testing and certification needs to take place in Japan, and the company which paid for the VIA standards testing and certification holds the paperwork. And you have what, exactly?

How can you possibly be sure that the wheels you are selling are "of the same quality" as those sold by M-Speed Japan, with M-Speed's stickers and reputation riding on them? I don't see how it is within your gift to vouch for what is going on in a factory that you have never visited, and for a product which you clearly have no paper trail on which to base your statement. Straw man argument. Reproductions of these wheels have been made for many years. At least four runs that I know of were made in Japan, and one run - in Magnesium, and including a scaled-up 15" version - here in the UK. Nothing is stopping anybody from making them. You have not paid for the full costs of the wheels that you are selling here. M-Speed Japan did. You're riding on M-Speed Japan's investment. Your moral compass needs a re-set. I've asked you before whether you'd be happy for anyone to approach the Chinese factory which makes your Z-Story exhausts for you, and to start selling them without your permission. No answer. M-Speed Japan are (did you notice?) a Japanese company. They sell their goods in and from Japan. I very much doubt you know what their overheads are, or what their profit margin is, but you seem to be ready to claim that they are "manipulating the public"? How could you possibly be in a position to make that assertion? So, what's next for you? Apple Inc. products at half the official prices? Pfft. They don't need to. There's no current copyright on that shape, as I've already pointed out. Or in your case, the lack of... If you had any class, you would have approached M-Speed Japan and had a conversation with them. Maybe you could have worked something out with them. Nope, just straight to the back door, and all played out in real time on Facebook via the kid in Bulgaria. Garbage. And totally irrelevant too. You have shown photos of the wheels that you are selling, and they clearly carry cast-in logos of JWL (the standards marking of the Japan Light Wheel Alloy Association) and VIA (the Japanese Vehicle Inspection System Association registration). VIA standards testing and certification needs to take place in Japan, and the company which paid for the VIA standards testing and certification holds the paperwork. And you have what, exactly?

Absolutely not a problem, and I'm pleased to help in any small way I can. I remember the bodyshell very well, and I'm glad it still exists. Here's the thing: Show Me Another! as they say. There aren't many opportunities to buy what is clearly a factory-supplied, numbered but un-used (ie, not built into a running and driving complete car by the factory, and sold as such) bodyshell.

That's why I posted them above. The vendor. He's also the OP on this thread, so you can ask him about it right here. Admittedly it is anecdotal at this point, but a connection to Bob Sharp Racing makes explains this bodyshell's existence and - one time - presence in the USA. Here's the thing: Have you ever seen or heard of Nissan supplying a bare - unused - bodyshell for an S30-series Z? This is something that they simply did not normally do. Unlike other manufacturers, Nissan did not supply complete bodyshells as spare parts ('Body In White' in the vernacular) let alone fully numbered bodyshells, so it is something clearly outside of normal practices. Being supplied as a spare bodyshell for a well-affiliated race team - right on the switchover from '240Z' to '260Z' models - adds up. And the chassis number of this bodyshell is very close to those of other BSR cars too. It seems to add up.

I was there, and these are my photos:

Fourways Engineering bought it as a bare 'shell, and sold it as a bare 'shell. I think it might be doing too much heavy lifting here. Only the bare bodyshell itself is 'essentially new'.

The ad description clearly states: "The shell will be sold complete with the following standard 260Z items from donor vehicles installed: *front and rear axles/suspension...." etc ...so I don't know where you are getting the idea of new doors, struts/hubs, brake parts, fuel tank or anything else except the bare bodyshell itself.

Hopefully that would include being able to read the vendor's description on ebay: "new electric fuel pump and swirl pot".

If you're thinking it somehow has a link to BSR then you're barking up the wrong tree. It was bought and imported to the UK as a bare bodyshell with ZERO parts attached to it, and no modifications.

@gnosez and I have corresponded about this bodyshell. As far as I'm concerned, everything rings true.

There's effectively no copyright on the original Kobe Seiko design, and several different companies have made replicas over the last 50 years. You cannot label or market them as Kobe Seiko items, that's all. The problem here is effectively piracy of M-Speed's IP software, molds and R&D. We all know how many of these Chinese factories operate, and to buy product from them - which others have invested time, know-how and money to - is effectively encouraging piracy. If anybody wanted these wheels, they were freely available for the last two years from M-Speed Japan at a price which reflected the time and expense in setting such a project up. Buying via the back door is bad for all of us in the long run.

In a fire bad enough to ignite Elektron Magnesium wheels (which the original Kobe Seiko wheels were made from) on an S30-series Z, the fumes from the burning interior plastics and vinyl would kill you first. M-Speed's replicas are made from Aluminium alloy.

Try another dictionary: Cutting to the chase, these wheels you are selling are effectively M-Speed Japan items, but without the M-Speed Japan stickers and without M-Speed Japan's authorisation. You bought them from the Chinese factory which manufactures them for M-Speed Japan, who are - according to M-Speed Japan's representative - not authorised to sell product which has been made using M-Speed Japan's intellectual property and set-ups. How can you possibly guarantee that they have been made from the same specification of material, heat treatment and to the same specifications as the wheels made for M-Speed Japan? Have you been to the factory in person? I very very much doubt it. You first hooked up with these wheels in May this year via a Facebook post from a random kid in Bulgaria who had - I would guess - been trawling Ali Baba pages looking at Chinese-made wheels and put two and two together. Amazing what comes out of the back door of these places if you know the correct way to knock. In May you didn't even know the difference between the 5.5j 432 type wheel and the 7j Works type wheel, so it is amusing to see you've got key rings and stickers on cue already for your new venture.

I'll put that down as both a 'cannot' and a 'will not'. Since you haven't answered my above questions, it's hard to come to any conclusions. If M-Speed Japan have green-lighted sales direct from the Chinese factory for some reason (there could be any number of reasons) then I don't see why you would not be able to say so. But M-Speed's representative told me that these sales are not authorised by M-Speed. So you're apparently selling an M-Speed developed product without the M-Speed stickers, yes? So who's standing behind them? Who's guaranteeing the product? If 'REAL Classic Z Wheels' (LOL) is your company, and these are 'your' product, where are the bona fides? I didn't have any problem with M-Speed Japan having wheels made and selling them to the general public, as they were good quality and a fair price for ex-Japan sales. I recommended the M-Speed reproductions to several people, and several friends of mine bought them and are happy with them. So, no problem at all with M-Speed product. So who's making yours, and where? The 'problem' I have Sean is that I don't think it is cool for people to track down manufacturing sub-contractors - via a product - and effectively short-circuit the process that brought the product to market in the first place. If M-Speed Japan paid for the R&D, patterns and testing and everything that goes with a project like this, then why should somebody else get a free ride on their IP? I asked you before what your reaction would be if somebody went to the Chinese factory where you make your Z Story exhausts, and started buying and selling the product that you developed. Your answer was pretty much 'its their own fault', wasn't it? So much for morals, let alone karma. If the situation between yourself and M-Speed Japan is a mutual agreement, then it should be easy for you to clarify to that effect. As of right now, that's not how I understand it.

Well, educate me (us) then. Do they have the blessing of the people who paid for this reproduction to exist in the first place (patterns, R&D, testing etc) or do they not? Have you got clearance from M-Speed, or have you not? Have the factory got clearance from M-Speed, or have they not?