sopwith21

Very true. At some point someone needed to step back and look at the big picture... F1's failing reputation worldwide, its failure to capture the American marketplace and one hundred thousand or so fans and millions worldwide who expected a show. The fact that no one associated with F1 could get past their own personal agenda long enough to consider the big picture is indicative of the root cause behind the decline of the entire series. Its sad that the party that started the problem - Michelin - is also the only one who seemed truly committed to finding a solution.

Think they'd show up?

I thought a world champion meant that someone was, overall, the best at what they did, not merely an observation of where they did it. One would think that a world driving champion would be tested on road courses, short ovals, high banked ovals, street courses as well as large ovals. The CART series reflected this pretty well in the mid to late 90's and was probably closer to a genuine world driving championship than anything seen recently. Now that the IRL is adding both street and road courses, it may soon challenge for the title as well. Regardless, the point is that F1 is imploding and it didn't start last weekend in Indy... that was just the latest episode of a sad, ongoing soap opera. The one thing that could save the series is the one thing that seems most beyond their grasp... humility.

Rant mode "on." F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship." They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers. Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides, their governing body is so arrogant that they'd rather run six cars than make a minor track alteration, their cars are supposedly the most advanced on earth but they can't even handle one turn that Indycars make four times per lap, they constantly rewrite and re-interpret rules post facto, and they treat the mecca of American motorsports like their outhouse. Sometimes they don't even show up, yet they still want to proclaim themselves as a "world championship." Of what, no one is really sure, but it can't have anything to do with racing. I love racing, but the problem with Formula One is that they act so much like Formula One. By the time they get over their fascination with themselves and realize that they've destroyed their own sport it will be too late. Its a shame, too, because once every few years they'd put on a nice race.

I'm not sure we can make a sensible case for racing on an oval with walls at 200+ mph in the wet. I also refrain from faulting people for not jumping off tall buildings and playing Russian roulette. One way or another, we were bound to get there.

Try this one: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050620/SPORTS0103/506200369 IMHO the blame lies squarely on the FIA. Michelin goofed up, but they had the decency to admit it. They asked the FIA to install the chicane which would allow their drivers to race and even offered to start Michelin-shod cars at the back of the field and surrender race points. The FIA still refused, and let race fans around the world watch six cars instead. That's pitiful. F1 has burned every bridge they've crossed in the USA. They're unapproachable, arrogant and difficult in every possible manner, and have managed to convince themselves that we're lucky they're here. This is but an extension of the petty bickering they've done in Europe for years. As far as I'm concerned, they can go back where they came from. If F1 is the self-proclaimed "pinnacle" of the sport, I'd rather race go karts. BTW, somewhere, somehow, this will end up being all Tony George's fault. You heard it here first.

Of course. The idea is to justify, mitigate or distract from the simple fact that Danica is a good driver who's accomplishments have been dramatically overstated and overpublicized because of gender. Bring up Tomas' past... denigrate the race... insult Tony George... ignore the topic and attack the speaker... do anything, but DON'T address the basic assertion of this thread, summarized in the previous sentence.

Ah, but fortunately we don't have to concern ourselves with all of society... as you'll recall, we were discussing Danica's public treatment as compared to other Indy drivers. Woe be unto him who dares to hold both to the same standard.

What a great point. Hire a hooker and lose your job. Dress like one and make the cover of Sports Illustrated.

Robin Miller is living proof that you can still make a living in journalism by hacking up other people. I have not a shred of respect for a man who deliberately targets people who have done nothing to him whatsoever and attempts to destroy their lives in order to prop up his own sagging career. And not just Tony George, Jack Miller and Dennis Vitolo, but a virtually endless list of people who at the very least deserved to be treated like human beings. Robin Miller is journalism at its lowest ebb. He has burned every bridge he has ever crossed and he never met a person that he wasn't willing to butcher in print in order to create a sensational story. He didn't just "tell it like he sees it." He targeted and destroyed other decent human beings. I don't care what he thinks or who's opinion may have been right or wrong... that is inexcusable. Journalism cannot possibly sink to any lower depths.

Dunno. Write 'em and ask.

What's the hurry? I was pulling for her! Besides, the entire broadcast can be summed up in one observation: After the race, three drivers were interviewed... the one who finished 1st, the one who finished 2nd, and the one who finished 13th. Oh, btw... two weeks after I was hammered for saying the same thing, the Indianapolis Star had an interesting article last Friday. The author said that the hysterical hype surrounding Danica was reaching such a fanatical pitch that it could only serve to shorten her career with ridiculous expectations that were impossible for anyone to achieve. This time, please send hate mail to the Star. I didn't write it.

Yes, of course I'm joking. That was just a tribute to the "nothing matters but F1" crowd. :classic:

Nonsense. No one knew the track was even here until the F1 guys starting driving it backwards. Very true. I've said numerous times that she is indeed a good driver and her skills have never been in question. Go back to the beginning of this thread and you'll see that Danica's skill or lack thereof has never been the topic. No, just an observation of reality. Someone indicated that Danica was merely a victim of the press and that she never asked for any attention whatsoever. I simply pointed out the fact that girls who don't want attention don't pose for men's magazines. That is a true statement. Now, for the good of racing, for the sake of worldwide sanity, and in order to save another ten thousand trees from being used as pulp for more Danica stories, let's all chant together... GO, DANICA, GO!!! Win this weekend. Get it over with. Please.

That is absolutely false. I have not belittle's anyone's performance. I have dared to hold Danica Patrick to the same standard as the male drivers on the track and have received the predictable reaction.

See? I knew you could do it! Put them all in a single city, add another fifteen major teams and another hundred or so teams from smaller series', build another eight ovals in the same town and there you go! Racing capital of the world! BTW, as soon as those teams move in I'll need the name of that city for my avatar. What is it? (Loxahatchee? ) I said "major" open wheel series. Most of us agree that there are three... F1, OWRS, IRL. There are 18 full time teams in each. 18x3=54. Do the math. Nearly twenty of those 54 are in Indianapolis. Not in Indiana... not somewhere in this region... not somewhere south of Canada... in Indianapolis. That doesn't count over a hundred other teams in other series. You can call Senegal the racing capital if you like, but there are still more major open wheel teams here than anywhere else in the world. Sorry. I'll see if I can get them to leave. :laugh: No you wouldn't. You're in too deep now... you have no choice. Yes, Indy does have more of those manufacturers than any other single city, but you wouldn't accept my findings anyway. So do your own homework and have fun.

:laugh: Now THAT was funny.

Ah, but you have it backwards. I am one who is curious. Why are the media and some fans are so passionate about her that they're willing to blow her accomplishments out of proportion and ignore other deserving drivers in order to create a hero? Its been fascinating to watch people defend her so passionately, even resorting to the tired old "sexist" accusations and personal comments in a desperate defense of their idol. Its been even more fascinating to study the double standards being applied to her. For instance, the Indy 500 is denigrated as a shadow if its former self and a race that doesn't matter anymore. Yet Danica is a great driver for having finished fourth in a miserable race that doesn't matter? Danica is on this week's cover of Sports Illustrated. The last Indy 500 driver to make the cover was Danny Sullivan in 1985. For twenty years they've ignored every winner of the 500, but a woman who fails to make the podium is on the cover after her first race? One writer noted that 22 of this year's drivers had no chance at even making last year's field. Yet Danica is praised for finishing fourth among these losers? Another writer asserted that Danica's greatness stems from her ability to drive through "make or break" moments in order to finish the race in the same position in which she started, then claims that Fillipe Giaffone deserves no attention for finishing the race while going from dead last to 15th. Danica is a good driver and its truly been fun watching her, but the simple fact is that attention given her is wildly out of proportion to other drivers who have comparable or greater accomplishments. So please help... I am curious. What is the real reason people are so passionate about Danica?

cap·i·tal Audio pronunciation of "capital" Pronunciation Key (kp-tl) noun A city that is the center of a specific activity or industry: the "financial capital of the world." F1 teams are scattered all over the globe. So are their races. If you want to see Ferrari, you have to go to Italy. If you want to see Jaguar, go to Coventry. There is no central point of geographic focus. NASCAR is split between Daytona, Mooresville, Myrtle Beach, Charlotte and several other southern locations. There is no single point of geographic focus. Indianapolis has not one or two, but nearly twenty open wheel racing teams from OWRS and Indycar located here. Of all the teams in every major open wheel series in the world, nearly a third of them are all located in Indianapolis. That doesn't count more than one hundred other racing teams in other forms of motorsports, all based here. Dozens of sanctioning bodies are located here as well in nearly every discipline of the sport, including Championship Off Road Racing, USAC sprint/Silver Crown/midget racing, IRL, OWRS/Champ Car, and many more. Several major chassis manufacturers are located in Indianapolis. One of the most successful dirt late model chassis builders in the world is headquartered just south of town. There are more engine builders and suppliers here than you can begin to list. Beast open wheel chassis are built here. Simpson's main commercial outlet is located on west 38th street. The Hoosier/Hulman Hundred, for decades the richest dirt race on the planet, is held in Indianapolis. The US Nationals, the most prestigious drag race in the world, is held in Indianapolis. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway as well as at least six more major race tracks are located here. The richest and most well-attended stock car race in the world is held here. That pathetic, worthless little race they call the 500 is held here. Two major road courses are here. Seven more ovals are here or nearby. And this is all from memory... there's hundreds more that I haven't bothered to look up. Please name one city anywhere in the world - any city, anywhere - that is home to just ten or fifteen major racing teams? Or, say, sixty or seventy minor league teams? That's not asking much... just take a stab at it. Name another city that hosts the most famous open wheel race in the world, the biggest drag race in the world and the most highly attended stock car race in the world... all in the same town? Just one? Here's the bet: answer my question and I'll change my avatar. If you can't, then you add "Indianapolis, racing capital of the world" to your avatar until next year's Indy 500. Any takers?

Compare your two statements above. Danica comes through her "make or break moments" and she deserves all the attention, praise and glory in the world. Giaffone comes through his "make or break moments" (without wrecking anyone) but he merits no attention or credit whatsoever? If the press received by Danica is deserved because she drove a winning car from fourth place to fourth place, then surely Giaffone would rate more press by driving a last place car that wasn't even supposed to be in the race to 15th. You are holding the drivers to different standards. Its your opinions which are being swayed by gender, not mine.

Exactly. And she is good... no doubt about that. The sooner the media gets their first female winner, the sooner we can get back to recognizing other good drivers in the field as well and enjoying the races. Win-win for everybody.

Bruno had no chance whatsoever to survive his incident. His car was clipped from the rear and spun. He's now in the hospital with his back broken in two places. Bruno did not wreck due to his lack of skill, and Danica did not avoid a wreck because of her skill. The accidents were completely different in nature, and using someone else's serious misfortune and injury to prop up our favorite driver is shameful. No one is really following that mess, but please feel free to make any point you like. Mine is that Danica is getting more press than she deserves or than is good for the sport and that other drivers are being shortchanged because of it. No, she drove a winning car to fourth place. Had she not stalled the car on pit row (twice), been penalized for entering the pits when they were closed, spun her car on cold tires and caused a crash that took out two other drivers, she had a car that was more than capable of winning the race. Danica is a good driver and I enjoy watching her, but she is not God. Despite the media's best efforts to cover them up, she does make mistakes, and those mistakes probably cost her team the race. That is the truth, though admitting it in the media would be the end of your career. BTW, another media note: The Indianapolis Star - locally nicknamed "Danica's Daily Digest" - ran an 18-page special on the race on Monday. Bryan Herta, drove from 18th to 3rd in one of the best rides of the season and finished ahead of Danica, had a grand total of exactly one sentence written about him. Danica, finishing behind Herta, had a two-page double-truck special feature eulogizing her, plus another full page ad on page 15. That was more than double the space devoted to race winner Dan Wheldon.

Well said; couldn't agree more. I did not say that she had the "only" car capable of winning the race. I said she had a winning car, and she did. She had absolutely top flight equipment, crew and engineers on a top flight team and a car capable of winning the 500. She finished fourth. That's a fact.

Absolutely correct; I was wrong. She did get a mandatory stop and go in the pits. Thanks.

When Danica scores forty Indycar wins (which she just might do), that will be an excellent question worthy of consideration. In the meantime, let's refrain from comparing five-race rookies to one of the winningest drivers in the history of the sport. It looks kinda silly. I guess we'll never know, will we? You mean "in the same kind of incident that Danica caused." On lap 155, Danica spun on cold tires while trying to jump the green on the car in front of her. She took out Tomas Scheckter, Jeff Bucknam, Thomas Enge and nearly herself. If she hadn't crashed into the side of Scheckter, she'd have spun into the wall and been one of those DNF's you were talking about. Danica is a good rookie, a good driver and she's good for the sport. But let's all keep our heads and come back down to earth. She's not - yet- the second coming of Juan Fangio, Mario Andretti and Michael Schumacher all rolled into one, and its time to give the other drivers their due.