round shape knobs and square shape knobs

[26th-Z]

Hi guys,

Her Majesty the 26th has round knobs. I'm sure I can confirm rounded knobs with the other early cars. Evidently, it was quite fashionable to have rounded knobs in the early days!

The part number discrepancy between Mark's piece and Alan's description list is so typical Datsun. I am not surprised. It can easily be surmised that specific parts did not appear in an orderly progression of production numbers and dates / models. However it is quite evident that the squared knobs appeared later and replaced the original production of the rounded type. So many bits of the very early cars are unique, one might suggest that the first productions were of limited quantity and that the second orders for these parts were made with slight modifications. Perhaps the result of a comment made during a press release coctail party!

In my opinion, the hand throttle is so unique that any knob shape is an interesting detail for a car. The knobs, like many other interior components, were made with a plastic that resembles "Bakelite", an older composition material. The only glue that will work to repair this material is "Superglue".

[WindyCityZnut]

Hi Kats,

My HLS30-05341 blt 6/70, and HLS30-18420 blt1/71, both had the round knobs for the choke. The one on the70 was cracked. Only the square type are available as replacements. Fortunately, the knob on the 71 is still in good shape. I'll try to post a couple of pictures of it.

Kats, are the choke/throttle assemblies still available in Japan? They sure are hard to come by over here!

Marty

[WindyCityZnut]

Here's another view.

Marty

[WindyCityZnut]

And another view.

Marty

[kats]

Thank you everyone,

I really appreciate for your informations.

Now my question is getting clear,I want to ask everyone these,

#1 The rounded knob is the earliest,this is clear.But why does the first parts catalog issued Nov 1969 show squared knob?

Can we say the squared knob existed already in Nov 1969?

I do not think an illustrator draw a picture looking at rouded knobs for the Nov 1969 parts catalog.I guess the squared knob

already existed.

#2 If the squared knob existed Nov 1969,why it did not applyed for the 240Z?I see so many photos of 240Z in early days(in service manuals,brochures,reports in car magazines,etc.)the 240Z has always rounded knobs.

#3 Parts number changed in Feb 1970,we think this is the boudary from rounded to new square knob.But as some member reported the rounded knob was used some around mid 1971.In my experience,in japan this is true for fairlady Z too.I have never seen square knobs for the choke and throttle composite unit of fairlady Z .Of cource I can not say I am 100 % for sure for the knobs which is originaly applyed.

In japan,the throttle knob is standard,so we can see it until mid 1971.

This is my guessing,

#1 NISSAN had rounded knobs first,but they already made new squared knobs before nov 1969,I do not know why.The illustrator used squared knobs for the parts catalog.

#2 In Feb 1970,NISSAN wanted to use new squared knobs so they changed parts number.But there were so many stock rounded knobs in the factory,so they just continue to use rounded knobs.

I will ask this to Mr.Matsuo soon.

Thank you,

kats

[kats]

abas,

The plaque on the consol in front of levers is a vintage Z's plaque.

My 240Z is not the one,mine is restored in japan the shop "ultimate".The owner of the shop is Mr.TAKAKAMO (we call him TETSU),he travels once a year for looking good 240Zs for his business.Tetsu got this plaque from the U.S. NISSAN and he gave this for my 240Z.

Mr.K visits Tetsu's shop very offten and every year Testu hosts a Zcar meeting Mr.K always there.Testu's favorite is his S130 with RB 26TT.We brought 16Zs with our friends to LASVEGAS in 2000.

Marty,

The choke and throttle unit is also very very hard to find in japan.I have never seen it in auctions.I am wondering the length of the throttle cable for RHD is same as LHD model?If it is same,it is good to buy the unit found in japan.

Thank you,

kats

[HS30-H]

Hi Kats,

I would think that your guess is correct, and that the round-shaped knob was superseded by the squared-off one - but they had a large stock of the earlier shape and simply wanted to use them all up first.

That would make most sense from a logistical point of view. I can imagine that a moulded part like that would be made in the thousands in no time at all, and big stock would easily build up. If Matsuo san and his team then decided to change the shape it would mean making a new injection mould or modifying the old one.

More to the point though, WHY did they change the shape? Was it simply to make it more ergonomic?

I have always been surprised that the slot for the deleted hand throttle lever on the Export cars was simply closed with a blanking plate until the new single-lever design came in. I would have thought that it would have been fairly easy to design and make a new plastic trim piece that deleted the unused slot altogether until the new console design was phased in. There must have been other factors involved that dictated a necessity to close the unused slot with a blanking plate for many thousands of cars ( ? ).

Again, I think all this is possibly yet another indicator of the unexpectedly good sell-through of the Export cars. I'm sure Matsuo san and his team, Nissan Shatai and all Nissan's suppliers were slightly taken by surprise at the sales figures - and were struggling to keep up with demand.

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

Do you guys think the knobs and console face plate was used on another car? I certainly do not have the knowledge, but perhaps a common choke handle / throttle handle was originally taken from the interior of another car with existing stock?

The squared off knob is probably easier to grip and control making it more favorable to the interior designer's thoughts during the design of the S30 interior. Perhaps the design was for squared knobs but an overstock of rounded knobs was depleted prior to the switch.

[kats]

Hi,

26th-Z,thank you for your good idea.The squared off knobs may applied to other model.But I do not think I will find out,because

this choke and throttle unit is very unique and looks very special for S30.I have a book it contains all nissan cars even incrueds Prince cars from 1955-1992.I will look at it carefully to find out.

Alan,yes I think this mysterious is related to NISSAN's panic for huge demand of S30.

And one thing that I am interested in is,Mr.Matsuo told me onece

about these knobs.He wanted to design them "T-shape" knobs.

He did not remember presicely but he said these knobs are one of the items which Mr.Matsuo and his team payed lots of effort for.

"T-shape"?I imagine squared off knobs from his comment.

This attached photo comes from Mr.Matsuo's album.This car is a prototype without drive train, made by FRP,build in around 1968 to spring 1969.

You can see the knobs,they look like rouded knobs but are not exactory same,even more do not look like squared off knobs.

How about this, Mr.Matsuo said he and his team worked harder and harder,even S30 was sold to the public.Some of the revised items were applyed immediately but some of them applyed much later.

I made a fiction,(do not trust!!)

Mr.Matsuo designed this rounded prototype first,but he did not satisfied with it,he tried squared off knobs.

They did not have time to confuse,had to decide which one is going to production,the squared off knobs were taken by a vote.

Soon after the vote,an illustrator dropped design studio and picked up squared off knobs for the parts catalog.

But,Mr.Matsuo did not know the interior parts maker had already thousands of order of rounded knobs.Because he and his team made and tested rounded knobs first,some one in the company

ordered it to the parts maker before Mr.Matsuo and his team tried squared off knobs.

I will tell this story to Mr.Matsuo,what will he say?

kats

[26th-Z]

Superb picture kats!

Notice the chrome ring around the cigarette lighter is missing and the dual switches for the fog lamps - controlling each lamp individually! My wiring for the fog lamps is up in the dash harness but I also have wiring for these console switches. Notice the missing switch for the rear window demister - not an option on the very early cars yet the wiring is in the harness.

I think the "T" looks apparent in the dual knobs forming one big T.

I always appreciate your your pictues, kats. Great reference. I save them all.

[Marty Rogan]

Well, Chloe at Midwest Z has worked her magic again and scored me a complete Choke/throttle control assembly. I am so excited about getting this!

The part is a really nice NOS piece. This part is really old. It has to be at least 33+ years old. This part should settle the debate about what knobs came on the original parts. It has rounded knobs for the throttle and the choke.

One question for those of you that are using these. I understand that the cable attaches to the back of the gas pedal. I am wondering if it needs to be attached by a bracket or something to the firewall? It seems that you would need some way of fixing the cable up there to get enough leverage to pull on the gas pedal. I would appreciate any input you can provide on how this is installed.

Here's a few pictures.

Thanks,

Marty

[Marty Rogan]

Here's a side view:

Marty