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Steering column connections and lighting: FIXED


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Have you checked all the grounds? Among others, I am pretty sure there is a ground under the car in the area of the right tail light. I have found loose grounds will make for some weird electrical issues. 

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  • 1 month later...

Been on an overseas trip for the better part of the last month (France!).  Just now getting back into this...

On 5/23/2022 at 10:02 AM, emccallum said:

Have you checked all the grounds? Among others, I am pretty sure there is a ground under the car in the area of the right tail light. I have found loose grounds will make for some weird electrical issues. 

Supposedly there's a ground on the chassis rail near where the filler neck comes into tank.  I can't see any evidence that one ever existed (no screw hole, stud, nothing) and no ring terminal on the harness either.

No evidence of a ground near the antenna mount, either.

 

 

HOWEVER:  Some progress, maybe?

I unplugged all 4 side marker lights, and........the dash lights, front (under bumper) markers and taillights came on when the combo switch was turned to the middle position!  And fuse stayed intact!

Brake lights and turn signals are still inop, but it was FANTASTIC to see that pale green glow from the dash lights.

Gonna try to plug in the side markers one at a time and see if I can isolate (that part of) the problem.

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I am not 100% positive but very, very sure the first picture is the bolt that holds the ground in the right rear corner of the car. 

The second picture is the wire harness that goes from the right rear taillight area to the fuel sender unit. It has the ground wire.

 

20220623_201127.jpg

 

20220623_201435.jpg

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You love to see it...

IMG_20220624_211214.jpg

IMG_20220624_211301.jpg

(I promise the rest of the tach lighting is on—just didn't come through in the pic—as are the 3 dash-top gauge lights)

So plugged in the 4 side markers one at a time and checked the circuit after each.  As near as I can tell, I plugged in the front left side marker wires backward.  The engine bay was blacked out at some point in the car's past (it's not any more) and the wiring harness—and its wire colors—painted over, including the wires to the side markers.  I just hadn't done a good enough job of matching black to black and green to green the first time around.

So that's done.  Still no brake lights though, and while the turn signals work on the right side, only the front left works.  I've checked and re-checked the wiring; will keep at it tomorrow.  Just wanted to share progress and a couple of pics.

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More progress:  All 4 turn signals work now!

I had to clean out the switch twice (it's spotless inside now) to get them to work.

Horn works also after cleaning and re-lubing the contact ring on the back side of the steering wheel hub.

Only thing left are brake lights, and we're 100% operational...

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Today's developments:

Using the below as a reference (thanks so much Steve!) I checked the continuity of each taillight-related wire from connector to connector:

hazard-turn-brake-circuit-v2-1.jpg

Continuity was good between everything EXCEPT for the below:

hazard-turn-brake-circuit-v2-1a.jpg

I ran a wire between the connections and the brake lights came on when I pressed the pedal!  However—when I tried the turn signals, both lit up when I turned to the left, and the right one illuminated (correctly) when I turned to the right.

I pushed the car back in the garage and the jumper wire fell out.  I tried the brake pedal again and the right one came on anyway (???).  Both turn signals worked OK.  But then I tried the brake pedal again and got nothing.

This is such a moving target.  There's clearly a marginal connection or broken wire somewhere.  Going to pop out the hazard switch next and inspect it.  The turn signal switch is immaculate inside and I have no reason to doubt it.

I feel like I'm working on something with Lucas electrics at this point...

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If you're getting one brake light to work, but not the other, things to consider:

  1. It's still the turn signal switch. Sometimes the tabs are not bent at the correct angle to make contact.
  2. Bad/wrong bulb
  3. Wiring issues

You should try to check the voltage at the white/red (right) and white/black (left) wires at the 6 pin connector at the steering column. I suggest using a t-pin to allow you to monitor the voltage with the connector put together.

61C9k+RSTXL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Stick the t-pin into the back side of the connector, and touch the positive probe of your voltmeter to the t-pin and the negative probe to a good ground. Step on the brakes to see if you have voltage. 

You can also see if you have continuity between the green/yellow wire at that connector to both the white/red and white/black wires.

If either of those tests fail, your turn signal switch may need to be tweaked to adjust the contacts.

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Posted (edited)

1. I've had the turn signal switch apart 4 times now, and I tried bending the tabs slightly a couple of different ways.  No difference.  It's spotlessly clean inside also.  Not sure what else to do there.

2. The bulbs are the same as they were before the restoration.  1157LL I believe...

3. So after cleaning out the hazard switch and getting it plugged back in, the right taillight works, and the turn signals works BUT ONLY when I physically move the 2 connectors coming out of the back of the hazard switch a certain way with my hand.  I really think there's a break or a short in the dash wiring somewhere.  I'll perform the above test, but I really think the dash is going to have to come out again.

Thanks as always for the input, Steve.

Edited by BoldUlysses
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25 minutes later, and...

IMG-0002.jpg

IMG-0005.jpg

Dash is out.  (sorry about the mess)

Going to flip it over tomorrow and see what's what.  Will report back.

By the way Steve, I performed the test you recommended:

  • 12V between white-black and ground.
  • <1V between white-red and ground.
  • Continuity between both green-yellow and white-red and white-black on the back of the switch.
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Happy 4th!  Another update:

  • Wasn't able to find anything damaged behind the dash, although I did note that several of the speedo and tach wingnuts were missing, so I replaced those.
  • I also opened and cleaned the hazard switch.
  • Reinstalled dash, absolutely no change.
  • Opened turn signal switch again, cleaned again, resoldered all 6 pins.

No change.

Status:

  • I have the right brake light.  The left one works when I jump the WR, WB and GY pins on the back of the turn signal switch.
  • No turn signals whatsoever.  Hazards work just fine.

At this point, I've decided to just give up on my turn signal switch altogether and go Euro/JDM with this setup:

https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/125801-repair-solution-for-bad-turn-signal-switch/

However, before I do that, I wanted to make absolutely sure that it's my TS switch that's faulty, and nothing else.  So I disconnected the 5-pin connector and jumped pins to try to create these configurations:

Screen Shot 2022-07-04 at 2.58.16 PM.png

IMG-0012.jpg

^Neutral configuration.

Result:

The neutral configuration works fine, both brake lights operational. 

However, neither the L or the R configs operate the turn signals.  They're totally dead.  I can't proceed with the mod until I get them working. 

So discouraging.  I've spent so many hours on this, and they worked just fine before the restoration.  Onward...

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OK, in between grilling out for the 4th, I think I may have a solid lead on the issue.

I jumped the 2 green wires going to the 6-pin hazard switch connector, and voilà, turn signals operational.

IMG-0013.jpg

The brake lights only work if I jump the GY and WR/WB wires at the turn signal switch.

So.

Flaky hazard switch connections + flaky turn signal switch connections.  Just gotta clean & test, clean & test, etc.

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When you say flaky, do you mean bad connections or did you have something swapped? So glad to hear that you are getting it sorted. 

PM me if you need any extra switches to test things. I should have some stuff laying around that may still work 🙂

 

 

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I don't have anything swapped.  I have a parking light relay harness ready to go in:

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic10d15/12-4652

but I want to get everything functioning "normally" before I complicate things by installing that.

 

So by "flaky" I meant either bad connections inside the switches themselves OR bad connections at the connectors.  Digging more into it tonight.  Thanks for the offer of switches!  I may hit you up.

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  • BoldUlysses changed the title to Steering column connections and lighting: FIXED
3 hours ago, BoldUlysses said:

FIXED! 

Finally.  After several months and many hours, everything works.  Headlights, parking lights, hazards, brake lights and turn signals.

The last two to be resolved were the brake lights and turn signals.  To diagnose, I took the switch completely apart (for about the 10th time), but this time, I plugged the raw switch elements into the harness, like this:

IMG_20220709_170720.jpg

(that poor circuit board)

With the rocker absent, the brake lights came on perfectly.

I played around with the angle of the rocker tabs and moved it back and forth with my thumb until everything worked.

Conclusion:  The rocker tabs were FAR too "flat."  They need to be bent upward at a fairly decent angle, like so:

IMG_20220709_171307.jpg

Reassembled everything, and it all works.  Thanks to all for your help and good advice.  Special shout out to Steve for his wiring diagram and input.

* * * * * *

To summarize, here were my issues and here how they were resolved:

  • Uncertain about steering column wire connections:  Referenced pics on the internet and consulted wiring diagrams.
  • No parking lights, and 20A fuse was popping every time I tried to turn them on:  Front left parking light wired backward.
  • No brake lights or turn signals:  A combination of cleaning out the TS and hazard switch contacts, re-soldering loose wires and bending the rocker tabs at the correct angles.

Thanks again.  On to the next issue, lol.

 

 

Not surprised about the rocker. I even mentioned having to bend it in my description of tearing down and reassembling the switch: https://fiddlingwithzcars.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/turn-signal-repair/. It's toward the end of the post.

Now you have a great understanding of how the switch works. Wait until you need to dig into the headlight switch. 🙂 

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16 minutes ago, SteveJ said:

Not surprised about the rocker. I even mentioned having to bend it in my description of tearing down and reassembling the switch: https://fiddlingwithzcars.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/turn-signal-repair/. It's toward the end of the post.

Now you have a great understanding of how the switch works. Wait until you need to dig into the headlight switch. 🙂 

 

I read that part of your writeup, but you mentioned have to "bend down" the arms on the rocker, which I interpreted as having to flatten it out (i.e. bend them down toward the contacts).  Regardless, there really was no way for me to figure out exactly where their sweet spot was without plugging in the "bare" circuit board and experimenting, as above.

Re:the headlight switch, already have done!  It's near the beginning of this thread. 🙂

Thanks again!

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