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New Oil Pump Installed, now hearing noise from engine?


Ownallday

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On 11/5/2021 at 5:55 AM, Ownallday said:

I looked at my harmonic balancer, the only thing is im running this one from MSA.

You might check the tightness of the damper on the crankshaft snout.  People often use the wrong combination of washer and bolt and end up torquing the bolt in to the nose of the crankshaft without actually clamping the damper down.  Bolt too long, in effect.

The key will keep the damper from spinning but it can still wobble around and cause damage.  I think that @Diseazd might have a picture, if my memory is right.

And, if you have AC, the AC belt idler pulley bearing is known for going bad and making noise.

Edited by Zed Head
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Great point @Zed Head. If he didn’t go back with the stock damper bolt, he may be having the same problem I had using the performance damper bolt from Motorsports. Like you said, the bolt and washer combo was too long, bottomed out in the snout and made a weird noise under load because it didn’t snug everything up. Pulled my hair out trying to find the noise. Make sure you use a washer and bolt that is short enough not to bottom out. You want the bolt and washer to snug everything up. Very, very important. I started a thread on the subject, but I think it was @Jeff G 78 that had the pic.

Edited by Diseazd
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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

You might check the tightness of the damper on the crankshaft snout.  People often use the wrong combination of washer and bolt and end up torquing the bolt in to the nose of the crankshaft without actually clamping the damper down.  Bolt too long, in effect.

The key will keep the damper from spinning but it can still wobble around and cause damage.  I think that @Diseazd might have a picture, if my memory is right.

And, if you have AC, the AC belt idler pulley bearing is known for going bad and making noise.

Thanks for the input. I will check it tomorrow or Thursday if I get the chance. So should I just retorque the bolt? MSA has a recommendation to using a special bolt and washer from them for the balancer I have. I don't have air condition installed atm but I do have an AC kit I want to install eventually.

26 minutes ago, Diseazd said:

Great point @Zed Head. If he didn’t go back with the stock damper bolt, he may be having the same problem I had using the performance damper bolt from Motorsports. Like you said, the bolt and washer combo was too long, bottomed out in the snout and made a weird noise under load because it didn’t snug everything up. Pulled my hair out trying to find the noise. Make sure you use a washer and bolt that is short enough not to bottom out. You want the bolt and washer to snug everything up. Very, very important. I started a thread on the subject, but I think it was @Jeff G 78 that had the pic.

Did you have the same combination I currently have? Performance Harmonic balancer from MSA and their special bolt and washer kit? If so what's the best solution? At this point I am pulling my hair out. Is it possible to just switch back to the stock bolt and washer? I don't want to buy another balancer unless there are any with an AC pulley attachment.

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22 hours ago, Ownallday said:

Thanks for the input. I will check it tomorrow or Thursday if I get the chance. So should I just retorque the bolt? MSA has a recommendation to using a special bolt and washer from them for the balancer I have. I don't have air condition installed atm but I do have an AC kit I want to install eventually.

Did you have the same combination I currently have? Performance Harmonic balancer from MSA and their special bolt and washer kit? If so what's the best solution? At this point I am pulling my hair out. Is it possible to just switch back to the stock bolt and washer? I don't want to buy another balancer unless there are any with an AC pulley attachment.

If I recall, the washer had a step down. If I installed it one way, it dropped into the opening of the damper and caused the bolt to bottom out in the snout......BAD!  If installed on the flip side, it wouldn’t drop in and the bolt wouldn’t bottom out. I just ditched the expensive “so called” Nismo bolt combo and went back to the stock damper bolt and washer and the noise disappeared. I pulled my hair out too. You can thank @Zed Headfor this if that was your problem.....he saved your arse a ton of hair pulling. I have a thread called “Strange noise coming from my L28” or something to that effect. If someone knows how to find it, it explains the whole process. I don’t know how to find my old threads. Every time I learn how to use this site, @Mikechanges it LOL. Good Luck! Sorry Mike.....still waiting for that trip to Holland.

PS.  I added pictures of that expensive bolt and washer that caused the problem.

CE378D05-C26F-443E-8FED-F867295620F0.jpeg

4F101717-184B-4D4F-B7F6-FEEE62F5E4B0.jpeg

0EA54593-BE91-4466-A87C-F8FAAA1DEB57.jpeg

06E20A62-4A24-4FD0-9322-0EA425D81248.jpeg

Edited by Diseazd
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These two were at the very end of the search I posted.  Searching is definitely more difficult than it used to be.  Hard to find the right place then get it to do what you want it to do.  I used the CZCC function this time but usually I just use Google and "site:classiczcars.com"

 

 

Edited by Zed Head
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1 hour ago, Diseazd said:

If I recall, the washer had a step down. If I installed it one way, it dropped into the opening of the damper and caused the bolt to bottom out in the snout......BAD!  If installed on the flip side, it wouldn’t drop in and the bolt wouldn’t bottom out. I just ditched the expensive “so called” Nismo bolt combo and went back to the stock damper bolt and washer and the noise disappeared. I pulled my hair out too. You can thank @Zed Headfor this if that was your problem.....he saved your arse a ton of hair pulling. I have a thread called “Strange noise coming from my L28” or something to that effect. If someone knows how to find it, it explains the whole process. I don’t know how to find my old threads. Every time I learn how to use this site, @Mikechanges it LOL. Good Luck! Sorry Mike.....still waiting for that trip to Holland.

PS.  I added pictures of that expensive bolt and washer that caused the problem.

CE378D05-C26F-443E-8FED-F867295620F0.jpeg

4F101717-184B-4D4F-B7F6-FEEE62F5E4B0.jpeg

0EA54593-BE91-4466-A87C-F8FAAA1DEB57.jpeg

06E20A62-4A24-4FD0-9322-0EA425D81248.jpeg

Thanks for the response. I will update later tonight the orientation of the washer. I don't believe it's install "the wrong way" though but I will update later.

1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

These two were at the very end of the search I posted.  Searching is definitely more difficult than it used to be.  Hard to find the right place then get it to do what you want it to do.  I used the CZCC function this time but usually I just use Google and "site:classiczcars.com"

 

 

Thanks, I tried to find them but didn't understand how to search like you stated. I will update later tonight on the washer situation

14 minutes ago, Yarb said:

@OwnalldayDid you mention in an earlier thread whether or not your using the stock bolt or the one MSA recommended? Which bolt is currently attaching the balancer? 

I am using the MSA recommend bolt and washer kit so the washer that they recommend for the performance harmonic balancer that they sell

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

If you read Diseazd's thread you'll see that he was too.  That was the point - the MSA recommendation did not work correctly.

Yeah I saw that. He wasn't using the performance balancer that I have though. So the bolt and washer kit I have is the one by Kameari I believe that they sell on MSA site.

large102167.jpg

 

Here is a picture I just took. By the looks of it, the washer is facing the right direction.

20211110_184734.jpg

 

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If indeed, your problem is caused by the damper bolt bottoming out, no matter what your set up is,(and it sure sounds to me like it is), I can promise you that you will destroy the crank in short order if you keep running it. If it were me, I would 1) either reinstall the old damper with the stock bolt, or 2) add another spacer washer to your set up to prevent the bolt from bottoming and see if the noise mysteriously disappears. Nothing else I can add.

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On 11/10/2021 at 10:21 PM, Diseazd said:

If indeed, your problem is caused by the damper bolt bottoming out, no matter what your set up is,(and it sure sounds to me like it is), I can promise you that you will destroy the crank in short order if you keep running it. If it were me, I would 1) either reinstall the old damper with the stock bolt, or 2) add another spacer washer to your set up to prevent the bolt from bottoming and see if the noise mysteriously disappears. Nothing else I can add.

Update, washer was facing the wrong way, swapped it and still making noise, tried the oem washer and bolt too and still making noise. The noise can't be heard in neutral. I can hear the noise the most in 3rd gear but I can hear it in all gears. Can't replicate noise with the car in the air for some reason. I should add since I realized I never mentioned it, when I went to start my car after the new oil pump, the car struggled to start and it made a really loud bang. It did this 3 times trying to start the car which to my knowledge I think the starter hit the flywheel or something. It was enough to make the entire car move. I inspected the flywheel through the starter area and can't see any damage. 

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16 minutes ago, jonbill said:

That also sounds like it might be ignition timing problem. 

when you set the distributor spindle timing, did you check the engine was at TDC #1 compression? 

Yes, I rechecked it twice, motor at tdc and the spindle facing the 11:25 o clock direction from the top. My timing is about 17 or 18 degrees advanced as that's where my webers tuning likes it. To everyone I know who heard the noise in person does not sound like detonation to them

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19 hours ago, Ownallday said:

Yes, I rechecked it twice, motor at tdc and the spindle facing the 11:25 o clock direction from the top. My timing is about 17 or 18 degrees advanced as that's where my webers tuning likes it. To everyone I know who heard the noise in person does not sound like detonation to them

Can I ask how you checked it was TDC compression? did you check the position of #1 cam lobes etc? 

it might not be timing of course, but things keep pointing that way IMO. 

Edited by jonbill
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5 hours ago, jonbill said:

Can I ask how you checked it was TDc compression? did you check tje. position of #1 cam lobes etc? 

it might not be timing of course, but things keep pointing that way IMO.

I have a tool that you use for finding tdc compression that you stick into cylinder 1. But I also took off my valve cover and checked the lobes and timing marks and checked timing marks on my pulley. Also used the the oil pump spindle at the top at one point to make sure that was tdc

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So maybe we can shift gears so to speak.

Fully charge the battery.

Take the belts off and go for a quick drive! If the noise is gone it's belt driven. If it remains we can rule out belt driven items

I wouldn't go more than a couple hundred yards. Just enough to get to the speeds you here the noise at

It will overheat if you run it too long!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thought I would leave the solution to my problem down. The timing was the issue. I should've caught it the moment I saw the RPMS raise up after the install and the fact that the timing wouldn't allow me to adjust lower than 18 degrees advance. The oil pump spindle is supposedly suppose to be installed at an 11:25 o clock position, however I removed mine and installed it one tooth over so I installed it at about a 12 o clock position. The rotor in the distributor lined up a lot better with spark plug 1 on the dizzy and I was finally able to adjust the timing to 0. I went ahead and set timing to 10 degrees advanced. On my drive home, the noise I've been hearing is completely gone now throughout the entire rev range and all gears. My car did lose power thought haha, but just happy I can finally drive her without having to worry. Gonna have to find someone who can tune webers soon, I got addicted to that power increase haha. Thanks everyone for the help!

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