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TTT Outer Tie Rods or Moog?


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So my Datsun 280z has a pretty bad shake at the steering wheel above 35mph, I've narrowed it down to the inner and outer tie rods as they are the only suspension components I have not changed yet plus my right outer tie rod has visible play. My car has polyurethane bushings all around and TTT suspension from lower control arms and what not.

My question is, is there any noticeable steering feel difference between the Moog outer tie rod and the TTT outer tie rod? I know they use different bushings obviously, is that enough for a difference in feel or is the difference so minimal that its not worth the extra money? I do drive my car spiritedly in the Canyons and occasional track days.

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I have Moogs and they're fine for my driving. No track time, just cruising around town and laying on it on the interstate. My Moogs have grease zerks so that's why I bought those.

Remember the passenger's side is normal threads. Driver's side is left handed. 

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I've driven with both and didn't feel any difference but if you already have a bunch of TTT hardware installed you might as well keep going, at least all the components will have equal strength.

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27 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

I have Moogs and they're fine for my driving. No track time, just cruising around town and laying on it on the interstate. My Moogs have grease zerks so that's why I bought those.

Remember the passenger's side is normal threads. Driver's side is left handed. 

Thanks for the reply, was actually probably going to go with just the moogs however I noticed they only make replacement for the stock inner tie rods which aren't made anymore so now I am debating whether to just replace the outer tie rods only with moog or if I should tackle the inners while I am there. How likely are the inner tie rods to go bad on these cars? If I can save some money that would be good.

 

4 minutes ago, grannyknot said:

I've driven with both and didn't feel any difference but if you already have a bunch of TTT hardware installed you might as well keep going, at least all the components will have equal strength.

What I figured but spending another $100 on tie rods doesn't sound too comforting especially if there isn't even a difference. However I was going to replace my inner tie rod also but now I'm not sure if it's necessary or worth it, moog only makes outer tie rods for the oem inners

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For what it's worth I've only replaced outers on my Zs as part of of refurbishing the steering racks. My '72 drives like it's on a rail, straight without any shake and that's the OE inner tie rods. I will add it's low mileage car however so take that into consideration.

Mine is a once monthly driven car too so I didn't replace the inners. I think you can spend money elsewhere like new rotors, calipers and SS short lines on all 4 corners. I went with drilled and slotted rotors plus ceramic pads, new bearings and all that stuff. Very happy with the results too.

DSC00707.JPG.b07c23a23e99afdb472629720fc3c4da.jpeg.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by siteunseen
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On 7/20/2021 at 5:07 PM, siteunseen said:

For what it's worth I've only replaced outers on my Zs as part of of refurbishing the steering racks. My '72 drives like it's on a rail, straight without any shake and that's the OE inner tie rods. I will add it's low mileage car however so take that into consideration.

Mine is a once monthly driven car too so I didn't replace the inners. I think you can spend money elsewhere like new rotors, calipers and SS short lines on all 4 corners. I went with drilled and slotted rotors plus ceramic pads, new bearings and all that stuff. Very happy with the results too.

DSC00707.JPG.b07c23a23e99afdb472629720fc3c4da.jpeg.jpg

 

 

 

Thank you, my car only has 75k miles or so but the outer tie rods are shot for sure. I'll be replacing just the outer tie rods tomorrow and redo my alignment aswell at work after that. Nice, I actually just upgraded to 4 piston front, SS lines and all that a week ago. I should've replaced my bearings but they seemed okay so I just repacked them. Just need a bigger master for the brakes.

On 7/21/2021 at 12:09 AM, heyitsrama said:

@Ownallday `rare parts` makes a replacement inner rod, i have them on my 260z.

Do you have a link because it only shows one inner tie rod for me and to my mind that would mean Right hand for the driver side

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Some (most?) end up just getting two right inners and then match it two two right outers, that’s why t3 sells two right outers together.

 

I guess another reason to go with moog if you don’t wanna spend the cash on repairing the inner too. When it’s time for the inner to go you’ll need to change one of the outers.

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5 hours ago, heyitsrama said:

Some (most?) end up just getting two right inners and then match it two two right outers, that’s why t3 sells two right outers together.

 

I guess another reason to go with moog if you don’t wanna spend the cash on repairing the inner too. When it’s time for the inner to go you’ll need to change one of the outers.

My friend actually just told me this yesterday, he said to just get two Right hand threaded moogs. Found out my inner tie rods are actually bad yesterday when I inspected them. Apparently zcardepot sells the left and right side so I went ahead and ordered that and Moog outer rods. Hopefully after this I have no more wheel shake.

Thanks for your response

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I assume the tires are and rims are ok? I had a pretty bad shake, I ended up getting new tires and steel rims, after that all good (they looked fine, i have to assume they may have been deformed from a long period of non use by po. How did you determine the inner tie rods were bad? I assume some measure of end play? where the boots shot? I would think the orig would be good for well over 100k assuming they were protected from elements.

Edited by Dave WM
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I was not aware of another manufacturer making a left sided inner tie rod, my assumption was that unless you're getting NOS, you'll have to use the double right from Rare Parts. Please update with pictures if you can. 🙂

 

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28 minutes ago, heyitsrama said:

I was not aware of another manufacturer making a left sided inner tie rod, my assumption was that unless you're getting NOS, you'll have to use the double right from Rare Parts. Please update with pictures if you can. 🙂

 

I wasn't either, but their website has an option for left and right so I'm just assuming unless they are lying. I'll post pictures when I get them, I already have the outer tie rods I'll be installing at work today to see how much that helps with the shaking

4 hours ago, Dave WM said:

I assume the tires are and rims are ok? I had a pretty bad shake, I ended up getting new tires and steel rims, after that all good (they looked fine, i have to assume they may have been deformed from a long period of non use by po. How did you determine the inner tie rods were bad? I assume some measure of end play? where the boots shot? I would think the orig would be good for well over 100k assuming they were protected from elements.

Yes, tires are pretty much new only ~2k miles on them. The wheels are enkei from my friends Z, he experience no wheel shaking. I recently balanced my wheels and did an alignment all is good. On both sides you can tell the outer tie rods are bad, but on one side you can see the inner tie rod moving and hear a clicking/clunking kinda noise when checking for wheel play from that inner tie rod. Boots are shot on both sides. I believe my car was in a small accident in the past might've messed them up. I left a video of the inner tie rod play

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You can find them cheaper looking for 4 wheeler accordion boots. The stainless bands for those cv boots are the way to go too. I've been down this road, believe me.

Motorcycle shops have that stuff but it's higher than a giraffes arse. I bought mine off the www.com

Edited by siteunseen
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I think I got them from amazon.com for a lot cheaper. Stop Techs I think and they do stop on a dime. No squeaking either, just like you say. 

Another proven by me thing is no brake dust with ceramic pads. My wheels are always shiny. Ceramic, it's not just for high heat coating. 👍

Edited by siteunseen
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On 7/23/2021 at 4:41 PM, heyitsrama said:

be careful with the bellows/boots, their like $80 a pop 😞

I believe I already bought them at zcardepot, they were $20 a piece. I installed the outer tie rods (Moog) just the other day and had the car aligned, happy to say about 70% of my shake is gone but there was still the obvious inner rod play, just waiting to get those delivered with the boots.

Only installed the outer tie rods because I had a track day yesterday, aside from a fire starting on my headers or one of my webers, the car ripped and handling felt a lot better too. I'll update with pictures when I get the inners on

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21 hours ago, heyitsrama said:

Oh nice! Hopefully no damage to the car from the fire? 

No damage done, the k&n breather I had for the crank case blew off but that's about it, drove the car an hour home after the incident. I have breathers/filters on the valve cover and pcv, I'm pretty sure oil was coming out of them when I was doing hard cornering so I'll have to get an oil catch can. You can see what I mean in the picture.IMG_20210525_121728_956.jpg

Question do you know if I can run one catch can for both of would two separate catch cans be better?

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You can run 1 catch can for both. It shouldn't be spitting out too much oil. If it is, check your compression.

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oooooo very shiny. I think you can run just 1 catch can, and have a splitter that joins right before they input into the can. Something like

I've been wanting to run a catch can too, my beef is I don't like how they fit in the engine bay, i kinda want it tucked...

Do you feel you chassis flexing in turns on the track? I notice you're not running any bracing.

 

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2 hours ago, SteveJ said:

You can run 1 catch can for both. It shouldn't be spitting out too much oil. If it is, check your compression.

Sweet, thank you for the input. And compression was fine, I did a test about 3 months ago I remember all cylinders were around 140-160 which I know is low for a Z but shouldn't be extremely bad imo.

35 minutes ago, heyitsrama said:

oooooo very shiny. I think you can run just 1 catch can, and have a splitter that joins right before they input into the can. Something like

I've been wanting to run a catch can too, my beef is I don't like how they fit in the engine bay, i kinda want it tucked...

Do you feel you chassis flexing in turns on the track? I notice you're not running any bracing.

 

Sweet thanks, I'll be ordering one later today then. Personally I like my engine bay to be clean, but if it means avoiding a fire I'll do it. And I actually just ordered TTT bracing, I honestly don't know if my chassis has a lot of flex or not but I definitely have a good amount of body roll

3-Silver - Rear 640pm - WS8_1529_Jul2421_545PM_CaliPhoto.jpg3-Silver - Rear 640pm - WS8_1515_Jul2421_545PM_CaliPhoto.jpg

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I think the t3 brace is a really good option. I built my own after their model. The body roll is what I wanted to minimize, I felt like when I was in a turn the front of the car was behaving like a wobbling ladder.

Small write up here:

https://specterbyte.com/cornering-stablity/

 

good thing you saved some pesos on the outers eh? 🙂

 

did you get the triangulation back to the firewall?

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6 hours ago, heyitsrama said:

I think the t3 brace is a really good option. I built my own after their model. The body roll is what I wanted to minimize, I felt like when I was in a turn the front of the car was behaving like a wobbling ladder.

Small write up here:

https://specterbyte.com/cornering-stablity/

 

good thing you saved some pesos on the outers eh? 🙂

 

did you get the triangulation back to the firewall?

Actually my bad, I am getting Cusco for the front with the tri bar option from T3. and T3 Tri bar for the rear. Before my sway bars upgrade, the rear end of my car would wobble really bad coming out of a turn. I got ST sway bars and the problem went away. I am sure there is some flex going on that I just can't feel but it's nice to know strut bracing will make  a decent difference.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/23/2021 at 12:02 PM, heyitsrama said:

I was not aware of another manufacturer making a left sided inner tie rod, my assumption was that unless you're getting NOS, you'll have to use the double right from Rare Parts. Please update with pictures if you can. 🙂

 

Okay so I only took one picture (sorry I was on a tight schedule to put the inner rods on). I can confirm zcardepot has the left and right side inner rods. I originally installed the outer moogs with my bad inner rods and just swapped to the new zcardepot inner rods today and they are the proper stock threads. Installed with no problems and most of my shake is gone, I still have maybe 10% left so now I'm a little lost, Ill have to just replace parts or rebuild parts I never touched yet

20210728_182347.jpg

Edited by Ownallday
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