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Hagerty: Z the new 911?


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Interesting.. i probably restored the right car? a increase of value of 86% in one year??  My idea to restore a 280zx was to have a car that drives very nice, is big enough for my 6 foot 6 and does not get stolen because they are not very valuable... i guess that last point i mentioned no longer applies.. pff..😕

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I read the Hagerty article this morning.  The author tries to argue that younger buyers aren't interested in buying Porsches because they identify more with Japanese brands.  There may be a small element of truth to that, I think it's more about affordability. 

I also didn't see anything in the author's pricing survey that surprised me very much.  Good 240Z's in the US$30K-$40K range sounds about right to me.  Prices may have gone up over the past 10 years, but they haven't exactly exploded.  I think it comes down to production volumes.  Nissan made a lot of Z's between 1969 and 1978.  Maybe 10 times the production volume for 911's at Porsche?

Consider this:  A brand-new 240Z cost about US$3,400 in the early 1970's.  Most consumer prices have gone up by a factor of 10 over the ensuing 50 years, so it could be argued that the car sold for the equivalent of about $35,000* in 2021 dollars.  Which is about what a decent restored Z will cost you right now.  Not sure the same can be said for an early 1970's Porsche 911 (which sold for around $6K when new, IIRC).

(* Becomes $50K after you add $15K for front and side air bags, DOHC/CVVT/EFI engine, full computer control, comprehensive emissions control equipment, front/side/rear-impact and roll-over structures, leather, modern lighting, galvanized steel body panels, sound-deadening, contemporary electronics and sound system).

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20 hours ago, Namerow said:

I think it comes down to production volumes.  Nissan made a lot of Z's

Yes they made a lot !!  of them!!  But even here in europe they got crushed after it became a rustbucket or after a crash, so few were left and those are the cars we drive today..  (I got my 240z also back from the death after the floor was "restored"in california..  oh Man!!  there was 2mm fat heavy steel in the floor welded on some spots and clayed with silicone or something with fibreglass in it it was a mess.. i made a complete new bottom with good beams and all in it.. Now it needs another restore after 22 years.. (more the outside..))

Porsches did'nt go into the crusher.. because IT WAS A PORSCHE! It survived under a tarp and later restored..

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1 hour ago, dutchzcarguy said:

Porsches did'nt go into the crusher.. because IT WAS A PORSCHE! It survived under a tarp and later restored.

Different customer demographic, for sure.  Both vehicles rusted out at the same (rapid) rate, though*.  As for the proportion of each marque's new-vehicle numbers written off from collision damage, that would be an interesting statistic to know.  We could speculate, but actual numbers would be better.  Might make a good undergraduate thesis topic for somebody enrolled in Business with a minor in Sociology.LOL  

(* Kudos to Porsche for eventually becoming one of the first in the industry to introduce galvanized panels into the construction of their products.) 

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As a Millennial/Gen-Z (born in 1998), the original draw to the s30 was it's classic look and history, but in the end, the main reason I bought it was the affordability, as Namerow said. Had the z been more expensive, it would have been unrealistically out of my price range. Buying parts for the car is relatively inexpensive, and so is the up front cost of the car itself. Slap in the ease of maintenance and repair, and it's a very practical car to buy as far as classics go. That being said, an old 911 is, coincidentally, my 'dream' car. However, to buy one and drive it with regularity would be painfully expensive and financially irresponsible, presuming I even had the money to buy one in the first place. But, if z's and 911's cost the same, I'd have gotten a 911. However, they don't so I didn't. Point is, a 911 is way too far outside my ages' price range, but a z isn't - with a little bit of saving and some vigilant searching, you can definitely find one. Put it this way, you can get a decent s30 for around or less than the price of a new car, so if you've got a knack for classics, it's a good option. Then, you can save up some more money and decide whether you want to buy a house... or a 911... 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

You have to look at it from what the dollars purchasing power is not the actual number.  That’s part of the problem, but here’s the really reason……. Class Z’s are awesome cars and the world is finally recognizing it….something we all already knew.  So 20% is rising prices all around and 80% but the Z is a beautiful, fantastic car.  

So, maybe they are the new 911... in a way, at least. Not too long ago, I heard someone say something to the effect of, "Wow, look at that old Porsche!" about my z. Evidently that guy thought it was a 911!

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10 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

Class Z’s are awesome cars and the world is finally recognizing it….something we all already knew.

And may i ad...  They not only look and drive well, when i hear some people of "other" brands of cars complain about unreliability... oef...  I drive a 240z now for over 20 years and the only thing that broke was.. the battery!  hahaha.. and a rear muffler, it exploded when i was driving and my gaspedal was stuck under the mat!  I put the ignition to "garage" and  free'd the pedal, then, as i'm still driving i took it to "on"  Hahaha Klaboem!!  (I knew that would happen but not that hard!! )  The rear muffler (was very old and rusty) Had a BIG hole in it!  Later on i installed a 260z rear exhaust and it's still under the car..

Something else, if i could get a Porsche for my Z.. i don't think i would want that.. engine is on the wrong place hahaha!!   Also i want to be a Datsun guy not a Porsche guy... if you know what i mean.. B)

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Yeah I agree except our gas has only gone up about 10 cents not double since the election 

Wow. We were paying $1.63 before and we are at 2.93 now. So not quite double. Gas Buddy tracks fuel by state. Here is the last 12 months for AZ.

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Looks like $2.20 the first week of Nov and now $3.19 that’s a 50% increase. Of course this is average across the state. Good thing the Z get pretty good mileage.


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Dutchzcarguy, I think the 911’s are beautiful and I’d love a mid 80’s air cooled SC. The problem with Porsche is you better have a fat wallet and know a good mechanic because parts are too expensive. No offense but I’ve sworn off European cars. I’ve owned 3 BMWs in my life and all of the were great driving but they are too expensive to fix and the Germans have over-engineered them, honestly this is happening across the board with most manufacturers not just German cars. Cars are needlessly too complex now. I had adaptive headlights on my 330 and when they broke it was $1800 each, electric seat motor went out $2790. And things just started to go on the car at 5 yrs. Once your warranty expires you need to sell. Porsches are the same. It’s a love hate relationship. I’d rather keep my Z than deal with the long term consequences of an older Porsche. Plus, drive a Z and a 911 and see which car attracts more interest by the casual person walking by.


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You may as well drop the motor to change the plugs plus 13 quarts of high dollar Kendall oil in an '81 SC.

It's a road you have to drive before you realize the bumps it has. Kind of like boats. There fun but like they say you can just stand in the shower and rip up hundred dollar bills.

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You may as well drop the motor to change the plugs plus 13 quarts of high dollar Kendall oil in an '81 SC.
It's a road you have to drive before you realize the bumps it has. Kind of like boats. There fun but like they say you can just stand in the shower and rip up hundred dollar bills.

You know what they say. If if Flies, Floats or Fxxcks...rent it, it’s cheaper


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1 hour ago, Av8ferg said:

Dutchzcarguy, I think the 911’s are beautiful and I’d love a mid 80’s air cooled SC. The problem with Porsche is you better have a fat wallet and know a good mechanic because parts are too expensive. No offense but I’ve sworn off European cars. I’ve owned 3 BMWs in my life and all of the were great driving but they are too expensive to fix and the Germans have over-engineered them, honestly this is happening across the board with most manufacturers not just German cars. Cars are needlessly too complex now. I had adaptive headlights on my 330 and when they broke it was $1800 each, electric seat motor went out $2790. And things just started to go on the car at 5 yrs. Once your warranty expires you need to sell. Porsches are the same. It’s a love hate relationship. I’d rather keep my Z than deal with the long term consequences of an older Porsche. Plus, drive a Z and a 911 and see which car attracts more interest by the casual person walking by.


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I agree European cars can be expensive to maintain. The only way I can afford it is to turn the wrenches myself. But Porsche parts seem to be exceptionally expensive. Late 80's 911 would be fun for a while

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18 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

I think the 911’s are beautiful and I’d love a mid 80’s air cooled SC.

Let me tell you a story.. hihi.. A friend of my had a 911SC..  It was in the late '90's..  we went with some other friends for a round of carting, and i said to him you drive my 300zx (Non turbo 1990 at the time, a USA type as non turbo does not excist overhere..)  After many times asking he gave in and drove my nissan.. he went on the highway (max 120km/hour here)  and he took the car strait to 120.. i said.. no problem but the bill is for you.. he looked at me and said: what do you mean, i'm driving 120!  Yeah i said MILES per hour.. YOU ARE DRIVING ALMOST 200KM/HOUR HAHAHA  That's also the difference, a nissan does it with no effort, were most cars make a lot of (Unnecessery) noise..  ( I do like a exhaust growl but not for hours!)

18 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

No offense but I’ve sworn off European cars.

No problem, I have also, in a way... see next...

16 hours ago, Patcon said:

Cars are needlessly too complex now.

Agree with you a 1000% !!  The only thing that is and was ever broken on my cars were the headlight wash pumps (on all 300zx's) and i think it's a big nonsense thing so never ever took a look at it, and will never do... nonsens!!!!!!! 

16 hours ago, Patcon said:

drive a Z and a 911 and see which car attracts more interest

Hihihi... last week at the petrolstation, 2 other people were filling up theire tank, one go's you don't see them very often, (my 240z at that time) and the other one go's: WOW COOOOOOL car !!!!  hihi..  there is almost no driving it without someone sticking up a thumb.. or 2..!

Also i think with porsches it's more like years ago with a 300zxtt..  they are just jealous..  It surprised me some years ago that i now also get thumbs UP with my 300zxtt!  people start to recognize these cars.. huh.. is the 300zxtt also bin in a movie  (like the 240z ) ??     Reminds me, a guy started filming me in my 240z at one time, i was just doing shopping..haha.

I have looked once for a porsche 928 (engine on the right spot!)  but never bought one because of the name it has here and the complicated/bloody expensive parts..

 

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