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Z's on BAT and other places collection


Zed Head

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14 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

No no... zedhead.. this is a feb (2) 1970's car were some moron thought i put a one (1) in front of it, while the plate is ON the car..  (would be spectacular when someone finds out the laquer under the plate is damaged only were the 1 has been hamered into it!)  

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BTW... I'm just kidding... or AM I??  :omg:  I ask myself: Are there more people with such a strange fat 1 in front of a "normal thin "1" or "2" ?

 Somebody sloppily pounded a "1" on my 2/70 z too! 

I like to refer to mine as a "1969 3/2" model year.  😉

vinz.jpeg

Edited by Johnz1971
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2 hours ago, Johnz1971 said:

 Somebody sloppily pounded a "1" on my 2/70 z too! 

I like to refer to mine as a "1969 3/2" model year.  😉

vinz.jpeg

You have a good hand for VIN poker. Three of a kind, lucky seven.

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When you take a close look at your plate.. i think the 2 is the fake later placed number as there is a much bigger dent around the "2 " ? Like the dent around the 1 in the earlyer picture? 

vinz.jpeg

When the Japanese worker hit it with the " 1 " on the bench i guess the indentation is deep and you have no dent around the digit..  When you "illegal" put in an extra number while the plate is on the car you make a much bigger dent and the digit itself has less deeper indentation..

You have to enlarge the picture to see it properly.

I wonder if you can see something of a indentation in the paint behind the 1 or in your case the 2?  Drill them rivet's out and get yourself 4 new ones!

On the other hand those 2 cars could be from dec. 1970,  the chassisnumbers are not that far from each other.  Maybe Mr beck @Carl Beck  knows If the chassisnumbers fit the dates..  (And that Japanese mechanic used some different height of letters/digits to identify these cars..)   

(My translator does not give a name for "slagletters/cijfers"  so i like to know what you call these tools to hit with the hammer to make the letter/number on those plates!  Thanks!)

Edited by dutchzcarguy
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4 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

 

......  On the other hand those 2 cars could be from dec. 1970,  the chassisnumbers are not that far from each other.  Maybe Mr beck @Carl Beck  knows If the chassisnumbers fit the dates..  (And that Japanese mechanic used some different height of letters/digits to identify these cars..)   

(My translator does not give a name for "slagletters/cijfers"  so i like to know what you call these tools to hit with the hammer to make the letter/number on those plates!  Thanks!)

From the VIN’s I have collected, I have 12/70 starting at HLS30- 15361 and running though #18048.  01/71 starting at 18144 and ending at 20533,
 
It would appear that the Metal Data Tags (Door, Engine and Dash) were produced first on an Addressograph type machine - where serial numbers were stamped sequentially, like the 17770, followed by 17771, 17772 etc..
Then the date the car was finished at the top was hand stamped with a metal number Punch Die (aka Metal Numbered Die)
 
Addressograph/Graphotype Machine
 
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19 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

My car is a 7/70. #6521 and has a slightly different emissions decal. It also references the 1971 regulations.  The interesting thing is that my car is a non-emissions model for the Canadian market and came without the emissions devices mentioned on the decal. Here is a picture from before I removed if during my current resto.

20210826_123900.jpg

 

Here's a link to a discussion on this subject. Might be a good place to continue this discussion.

 

Thanks! Your car is always being a good reference for those maniac topics 😊

The point is , your car doesn’t have the emissions devices nor 1971 model , but your car has the decal which referred ‘71’ and ‘AIR PUMP’ . 

I have reviewed pictures in my laptop, I found two cars which are dated 5/70 car has already ’71 model’ and ‘ AIR PUMP’ decal just like yours . Both cars are US emissions devices vehicles and one of them is the BAT green 310000 $ car . 
 

I am confused now . And I need to amend my words , I can’t say the decal is usable to determine 70 or 71 model .Only thing I am sure it is useable for proving manual transmission or automatic transmission.

Please see this picture, 08/71 automatic transmission US 240Z has this decal . It says  ‘ California’ and  ‘ 1971 model year ‘ . In this case, August is for 1971 model . Why does May 1970 car has 1971 model decal ? 
 

Kats


 

3BC946B7-53C3-47CF-9064-AA5FD44609DB.png

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This is the decal of the BAT green 240Z . 
 

CanTechZ , I want to know about your 240Z’s fuel tank . 
Your car doesn’t have a reservoir tank behind the right rear quarter panel , does she ? 
Also your car doesn’t have breather / return pipes on the main fuel tank ? 
 

Kats 
 

E71F08F1-3A51-4F07-874A-019F8211F269.png

4C153C36-8A36-4995-9D1A-28974A045C8B.png

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3 hours ago, Carl Beck said:
From the VIN’s I have collected, I have 12/70 starting at HLS30- 15361 and running though #18048.  01/71 starting at 18144 and ending at 20533,
 
It would appear that the Metal Data Tags (Door, Engine and Dash) were produced first on an Addressograph type machine - where serial numbers were stamped sequentially, like the 17770, followed by 17771, 17772 etc..
Then the date the car was finished at the top was hand stamped with a metal number Punch Die (aka Metal Numbered Die)
 
Addressograph/Graphotype Machine
 

Carl,

Here is an update for your list of the 12/70 cars.

Regards, Jim

SAM_2880.JPG

SAM_2882.JPG

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1 hour ago, Zpenman said:

To avoid all of the drama, just leave off the model year in your advertisement when selling and include the mfg date (i.e., 7/71) as shown on the data plate.

The purpose isn't drama it's more about an understanding of what Nissan would consider a 1970 model versus a 1971 model.  Way back then decisions were made about changes that they would make to the 1970 design, for the 1971 model year.  Typically, flaws are removed for the new models, for example.  Or, in the 70's, new emissions regulations had to be met, based on model year designation, as kats has shown above.

You could also talk about "purity".  A mid-1970 produced 1970 model might be more "pure" than a late year production.  Maybe Nissan started introducing 1971 features before they had to.  When was the last "pure" 1970 produced?

Here's another feature I found in the Owner Manual.  It might not even actually be a thing, I don't know.  The shape of the keys.

image.png

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And the sun visor.

image.png

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20 hours ago, Johnz1971 said:

 Somebody sloppily pounded a "1" on my 2/70 z too! 

I like to refer to mine as a "1969 3/2" model year.  😉

vinz.jpeg

You have a good hand for VIN poker. Three of a kind, lucky seven.

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10 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

 

(My translator does not give a name for "slagletters/cijfers"  so i like to know what you call these tools to hit with the hammer to make the letter/number on those plates!  Thanks!)

They are called hand stamps (or punches). They come in sets, numbers, letters, symbols, and in various fonts and sizes.

 

il_fullxfull.635306895_qabq.jpg

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2 hours ago, Zpenman said:

To avoid all of the drama, just leave off the model year in your advertisement when selling and include the mfg date (i.e., 7/71) as shown on the data plate.

Cars are bought, sold, registered and licensed based on their model year, not the date of manufacture.

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2 hours ago, jfa.series1 said:

Carl,

Here is an update for your list of the 12/70 cars.

Regards, Jim

Hi Jim - My BAD... I must have got lost going back and forth on the spreedsheet - of course I have the Original Owner of #15320 listed as 12/70 - matter of fact checking more carefully -  I have HLS30 15316 from BAT also as 12/70 DOM.  (8 Sept. 2022).

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3 hours ago, Zed Head said:

The purpose isn't drama it's more about an understanding of what Nissan would consider a 1970 model versus a 1971 model.  Way back then decisions were made about changes that they would make to the 1970 design, for the 1971 model year.  Typically, flaws are removed for the new models, for example.  Or, in the 70's, new emissions regulations had to be met, based on model year designation, as kats has shown above.

You could also talk about "purity".  A mid-1970 produced 1970 model might be more "pure" than a late year production.  Maybe Nissan started introducing 1971 features before they had to.  When was the last "pure" 1970 produced?

Here's another feature I found in the Owner Manual.  It might not even actually be a thing, I don't know. 

The shape of the keys.

And the sun visor.

Here is the list of 18 features that were all introduced on the "Late 1971 Model", beginning with VIN's HLS30 21001 and HS30 00501.  The US Safety and Emissions standards had to be implemented on cars manufactured on or after  the date (Month & Year) specified by law.

http://zhome.com/History/New71LateP2.htm

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5 hours ago, Zed Head said:

The purpose isn't drama it's more about an understanding of what Nissan would consider a 1970 model versus a 1971 model.  Way back then decisions were made about changes that they would make to the 1970 design, for the 1971 model year.  Typically, flaws are removed for the new models, for example.  Or, in the 70's, new emissions regulations had to be met, based on model year designation, as kats has shown above.

You could also talk about "purity".  A mid-1970 produced 1970 model might be more "pure" than a late year production.  Maybe Nissan started introducing 1971 features before they had to.  When was the last "pure" 1970 produced?

While Nissan released all 1971 features at once on the “Late 1971 Model”; If you think about it - releasing a different model while retaining the same “Model Year” for 1971 isn’t the only time Nissan did that.
 
For 1974 Nissan offered two different models of the 260Z here in the US. The original design 260Z based on the 240Z body and then later the 260Z based on the coming 1975 280Z body. We are told that the Fuel Injected L28E was delayed in development and/or in US Emissions Certification, while the new design body proceeded on schedule into production.  The result was Nissan continuing to sell the L26 in the new body to meed emissions standards as a 1974 260Z  So the 1975 280Z didn’t come on the market until after Jan. 1975.
 
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48 minutes ago, Carl Beck said:

While Nissan released all 1971 features at once on the “Late 1971 Model”; If you think about it - releasing a different model while retaining the same “Model Year” for 1971 isn’t the only time Nissan did that.

There's probably a Service Bulleting for 1974 changes too, I'd assume.

You've kind of skewed my point.  It's not about introducing a new model mid-year.  It's about what defines the model.  The basic point is, as you've shown, is that Nissan has defined a "1971" as having certain features.  Different from a 1970 model.  They listed all of them and defined them as "late 1971". 

By Nissan's own words the guy on BAT could argue that his car is actually a 1970 "model".  Nissan seems to be saying that they didn't change anything until late 1971.  There is no "early" 1971 240Z.  Only 1970 240Z models made in early 1971.

I saw your comments on zhome about when Nissan switched but it's not clear how you know that.

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Stuff to ponder.  

image.png

 

1. Model Year: This is a marketing term, usually it is between 8 and 12 months long and within which, a specific model is considered to be "current". In the U.S. new model introductions in the 70's could take place as much as four months ahead of the beginning of the calendar year. That is to say, the 1971 Model Year Chevy's were introduced to the public and put on sale in Sept. 1970. (in the 90's manufacturers were pushing that new car introduction to as much as 8 months ahead of the calendar).

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21 hours ago, Zed Head said:

The purpose isn't drama it's more about an understanding of what Nissan would consider a 1970 model versus a 1971 model.  Way back then decisions were made about changes that they would make to the 1970 design, for the 1971 model year.  Typically, flaws are removed for the new models, for example.  Or, in the 70's, new emissions regulations had to be met, based on model year designation, as kats has shown above.

You could also talk about "purity".  A mid-1970 produced 1970 model might be more "pure" than a late year production.  Maybe Nissan started introducing 1971 features before they had to.  When was the last "pure" 1970 produced?

Here's another feature I found in the Owner Manual.  It might not even actually be a thing, I don't know.  The shape of the keys.

image.pngZed Head, I have a 10/69 Fairlady Z-L. Door lock key is correct, however both Nissan ignition key both heads are oval and reversible.

image.png

And the sun visor.

image.png

image.png

 

 

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Just now, Fred Sigarto said:

 

sorry, I messed up ..... on Zed Head post about the keys, on my 10/69 Fairlady Z-L keys, the lock key is the same, however both ignition keys are reversible and the key head is oval shaped. Could be the ignition was swapped?

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8 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

Once again confirming there is no such things as a series 1,2 3 ..

Changes like with other brands just went througout production

Great point.

When did the "series" thing first start? Having had Z's for over 30 years, I can't remember if that was a thing back when I first got interested in them.

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I've been a 240Z owner since July 1973. My current car is a 12/70 build registered as a '71. I don't think I'd heard the series "n" until maybe sometime in the 1990's. I was aware from the time I bought my current 240Z in 1990 that the "series 2" changes were implemented later in 1971 beginning, I believe, with serial number HLS30-021001 but I'm not sure what the build date was for that car, looking at zhome.com my guess is February 1971. One thing I'd be curious to know is if there are any stock round top/non beefed-up front bumper cars that were registered as a 1973? Or were the emissions/safety standards tightened up to the point that all 1973 cars had the flat top carbs and beefed-up front bumper?

EDIT:

@Carl Beck It's kind of like having a IZCC member # 2831 showing a join date of 2017. My guess is this is really the last time I updated my IZCC membership but the join date is probably really in the early 1990's.

Edited by w3wilkes
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