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Z's on BAT and other places collection


Zed Head

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$11,700 now!!!! :blink:
Runs today

We are living in a crazy world. I don’t understand it and the only thing I can think of is people are coming to the realization that their money is losing value so fast they want to move it into any asset as soon as possible. 6.2% inflation un October which is the highest in 30 years and that’s after removing energy from the CPI. That clouds the real inflation figures because crude oil is up 65% and Natural Gas 112% in 2021. We are living in truly unprecedented times and it is reflected in the price of used and particularly classic cars.
That Z is not worth 11k on any universe except this crazy one we live in.


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While the current bid is perplexing, I can't help wondering who provides the listing's "Est. Retail Value". Now, in my mind, the $46.3K shown is the real astounding number here.

 

I could understand its fantasy value if the Owner provides the number, but if it comes from BaT (as I should think ethics should require), they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

Est. value: $.02 from the cheap seats.

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https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-datsun-240z-79/

So what's the verdict on this one? Looked like a nice car to start with. I feel the presentation of it was less than ideal with heavily edited videos, some poorly staged photos, and the lack of basic cold start/driving videos to get a sense of the true car and what quirks it may have. Not very many Z specific photos to show things like the battery tray or good shots of the frame rails for instance. 

$65K seems like a good starting point, especially considering it was listed in the middle of a holiday and ended just a few weeks away from Christmas. I was shooting that it would make it to $70-$75K and sell. 

Really nice Z though, nicer than a good amount of the ones recently listed on BaT. It did have a few flaws - antenna, wrong finish on the tail light panel, center console wear, HVAC panel held on with (wood?) screws, and the RH rack boot just hanging - which didn't seem to get picked up by a majority of the people. 

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50 minutes ago, CW240Z72 said:

$65K seems like a good starting point, especially considering it was listed in the middle of a holiday and ended just a few weeks away from Christmas. I was shooting that it would make it to $70-$75K and sell.

...which would - if you believe two of the vaunted 'gurus' in the BaT comments - have left the seller with a $25k+ sized black hole on "restoration costs" they assured us must have been incurred.

Over-hyping by these heavily invested characters does not - in my opinion - help.    

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42 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

...which would - if you believe two of the vaunted 'gurus' in the BaT comments - have left the seller with a $25k+ sized black hole on "restoration costs" they assured us must have been incurred.

Over-hyping by these heavily invested characters does not - in my opinion - help.    

Definitely a good amount of hyping in the comments as an attempt to boost bids. I do agree with some, it's very difficult to do a factory restoration and not touch 6 figures of investment. Even if you are able to do most the work yourself, you can't get away from a full blown restoration with less than 1000 hours poured into the process.

Value your time at the lowest shop rate you can find, plus just part costs, and it's amazing what it truly costs to build up one of these cars today.  

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4 hours ago, HS30-H said:

...which would - if you believe two of the vaunted 'gurus' in the BaT comments - have left the seller with a $25k+ sized black hole on "restoration costs" they assured us must have been incurred.

Over-hyping by these heavily invested characters does not - in my opinion - help.    

Agreed on all points! It was IMHO a very nice example, well presented by it's owner, which probably needed another $20K in parts and work to bring it up a level. Simple things, such as installing the correct hose clamps during a proper engine concours prep, would go a long way towards a better presentation.  The buyer who pays in the $70k+ range is probably not going to care that an aftermarket AC was installed and removed, but will likely care that there are now several holes in the center console as a result. Leaving it for the next guy to repair is fine (and was properly disclosed), but leaving it as-is will affect current value.

Getting money back on a full concours restoration on a car worth less than $500,000 typically only has a chance to work if you do most of the work yourself, you value your own time at $0/hour or less, and ignore the cost-of-money calculations.  I've lost many $$ this way restoring cars too inexpensive to recoup the costs, but I can attest to the fact that it feels good to openly say otherwise, and lie about the financials. I keep telling my friends the same BS stories about how "I broke even" or "made a few bucks" - it makes me feel better about spending money, like a fool! :^)

 

 

Edited by xs10shl
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I don't care for the comments from the peanut gallery of restorers on these auctions either, especially regarding current valuations, or future valuations, or costs to restore.  It is a good entertainment experience to see a nice car or one that is a nice restoration candidate, presented well in the media supplied by the seller, and to see an engaged seller answering questions from interested buyers.      

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7 hours ago, motorman7 said:

I was wondering if the guy who mentioned the '95+ Concours restoration' ever entered a Z in a car show.  ZCCA judges on a 300 point scale, and most Concours judges have no clue what they are looking at when it comes to original Z's. An old Z sage once told me you could tell the judges that Z's came stock with V8 engines and blacked out engine bays and they would believe you. I have been in enough shows, ZCON's and Concours, to know that this is not far from the truth. 

You can ask him, as I have a hunch (just a hunch....) that we know him very well here on classiczcars.com 😉

 

95 plus point concours restoration.jpg

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As to restoration costs, someone who says it's near $100k has never restored a Z or is getting taken. My Z restorations for customers have been in the $50-60k range and are well documented on this site. If you do it all yourself it's even less, free labor. 

Couldn't agree more.  I thought the red car was nice but I have seen nicer.  It should have sold. 

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9 hours ago, motorman7 said:

Decided I would add my thoughts on this auction since it's free to post here (more comments from the peanut gallery).

I was wondering if the guy who mentioned the '95+ Concours restoration' ever entered a Z in a car show.  ZCCA judges on a 300 point scale, and most Concours judges have no clue what they are looking at when it comes to original Z's. An old Z sage once told me you could tell the judges that Z's came stock with V8 engines and blacked out engine bays and they would believe you. I have been in enough shows, ZCON's and Concours, to know that this is not far from the truth. 

Personally I thought the silver Z that sold a bit earlier for 36k was a better and more valuable car than this red Z. There were too many unfinished items on this car. The silver car was all there, very complete and original.

I would have put the the value of this Z in the $50-60k range. 

As to restoration costs, someone who says it's near $100k has never restored a Z or is getting taken. My Z restorations for customers have been in the $50-60k range and are well documented on this site. If you do it all yourself it's even less, free labor.  

Most importantly, as mentioned earlier,  it's good entertainment. Some people get a bargain (silver Z), some people get taken. 

Just my thoughts

$50K-$60K to do a ground up restoration for someone else and make enough money to keep the lights on? Maybe 10 years ago, for a driver quality build, but not today.
 

I don’t want to derail this thread for what it was originally intended for, but you can easily eat up that amount or close to it in part costs alone today - if you’re going for 100% factory spec. Ask me how I know… 

I can’t see getting one of these cars restored with less than 1000 man hours into it. I understand your time is free, but that is still value added. Think about the guy who can’t do body work or interior work. That’s A LOT to fork up in labor alone that he’ll have to pay. 
 

I build up these cars because I like them and enjoy the community. I agree most BaT keyboard jockeys are not in the comments because they love the cars, and do try to fluff up the audience and facilitate a bidding war. 

 

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Nice rims for the z! (Advert saying 240sx !!  🙈   so he/she must be very knowledgeable about these cars..)

I wanted to know if these rims are also left and right side like the original 300zxtt rims.. they have a patern that is different on the right but there was no pic of the righthandside..😟

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