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31K Miles Series I 240Z Up for Auction on BaT - Over $100k on First Day!

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8 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Greggers13 bid $110,000, up from $105,000 by dfwelite, and both let themselves get outbid by $1,000.  I think the comments started to stick.

The funny thing now is that, even though it was presented as an untouched survivor, it probably needs to be touched now.  It needs the refresh that people were saying it has already had.

I know Greggars and mentioned to him to come see what was being said over here. He spent $40K earlier this year on BAT and is for real. He has the ability to own this car if he wants it. Probably hasnt written it off yet. Two other high bidders are questionable. Could they be hiding behind their new "handle" 

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Nice to know folks really like these old cars. Personally I could never drive a car that expensive, heck I don't think I would drive something for a 1/4 this kind of money on the mean streets of central Florida. Its crazy time around here everyday.

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2 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

I certainly don't feel bad.  I didn't like this car from the beginning.

BaT has an interesting feature where you can track sale prices over a number of years and the Datsun 240Z has a very distinct line of average sale prices to help you determine "the market".  Type in "Datsun 240Z" in the BaT search bar and you will get a graph.  Each bullet on the graph links to the actual listing.  What has sold in the six figures have been Vintage Zs and provinance Zs like the Franklin Mint Car.  Then there was the 300k car that is way out there in oddball land.  I think this no-sale was good for the market in that what The Guild said; once you get into the six figure area, it really gets nit-picky, and it should.

Nit picky yes, but I dont think any 240z should be in this realm as far as the money were talking about.

Am I missing something?

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I predicted six figure Z's a few years ago when we started to see $50-60k cars. I was told I was crazy. It actually happened faster than I predicted it would. Now $310k is hard for me to fathom but evidently I'm out of touch...

I've always wanted a low number car (sub 1000) and almost pulled the trigger a couple of times. I don't really want that anymore and am starting to lean towards 260's and 280's because I don't want to run errands in my $60k 240z. I would rather leave my $15k 260 in the parking lot unattended...

This all assumes I ever own a running Z again...ROFL

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There was a comment after the auction ended by soquelz, who says "I guess when you get to this level of bidding you want no questions about authenticity." And that about sums it up for me too. If I'm going to pay a lot of money for a car who's "value" lies in it's low mileage and it's originality, I don't want it to come with piles of questions about either of those two things.

It's a beautiful car. I'd love to own it. But it's priced way out of my range. And it's important to understand the REASON for such a high price. The REASON for the high price isn't simply because it's beautiful. It's because it's supposed to be a 31K mile car that is all original. If it wasn't being sold as a 31K mile car, or being held up as that beacon of originality, it would most likely not command such a price. Much of the VALUE is in the low mileage and the originality.

It seems to me that when there are credible questions about the mileage and the originality, the value cannot be supported.

I expect this car will be back sometime in the not too distant future. With the "period correct" carbs and plated hardware and "period correct" wheel covers and no overspray and the seats on the correct sides and, and, and, and........ And, a better, more conclusive story.

And if we see it again, I hope it's presented as "Stock", but not "Original". For example... In order for it to be "ORIGINAL", they would have to find the ORIGINAL carbs. And the ORIGINAL wheel covers, etc. I hope they don't try to convince anyone that they magically and mysteriously found the original carbs and wheel covers and put them back on the car.

After all the claims of complete originality of the car as it stands today, I would be skeptical of the legitimacy that story.

Edited by Captain Obvious
Added some detail about seeing the car again in the future
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This one ended like they thought the other one would.  But the end result is the same.  People have high opinions on the value of their 240Z's.  

image.png

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9 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

This one ended like they thought the other one would.  But the end result is the same.  People have high opinions on the value of their 240Z's.  

image.png

Comes with original rust bubbles as well. 

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Hmmmmmm.... So how accurate are paint thickness meters?

Here's a couple spots from red one that is supposedly original paint:
paint on red.jpg

And here's a couple spots from the white one that was repainted:
paint on white.jpg

What do the paint experts make of this?

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Not a paint expert but when you convert the white paint readings from metric to imperial you get 9.8 mil, 7.9 mil, 5.9 mil respectively. If the repaint had a heavy primer plus top coat over the original paint you might get those kind of readings. 

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What's funny is that in the 70's I think that they still had a guy with a spray gun painting parts as they came down the assembly line.  I think they even masked off and repainted parts if there was a ding from a clumsy assembler.  Probably tons of variation in these old cars.  Today it's all robotics and dip tanks.  Paint thickness readings seem like a strange new criterion for originality.  What if they measure a rust spot before it bubbles?

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Wait... The red car has an average reading around 22 mil which is .022 inches, right?  This works out to about 0.56 mm.

While the white car has an average reading of around 0.20 mm.

That means the red car has almost three times as thick a coating as the white one?

I must be doing a math error in there somewhere... Am I missing a decimal point or something?

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30 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Wait... The red car has an average reading around 22 mil which is .022 inches, right?  This works out to about 0.56 mm.

While the white car has an average reading of around 0.20 mm.

That means the red car has almost three times as thick a coating as the white one?

I must be doing a math error in there somewhere... Am I missing a decimal point or something?

Nothing wrong with your math. I thought the red car readings were 2.2 Mil average. I didn't zoom in, 22 Mil sounds to heavy. 

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9 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

I thought the red car readings were 2.2 Mil average. I didn't zoom in, 22 Mil sounds to heavy. 

Yeah, that would make more sense and that's why I was wondering if I missed a decimal point or something. If the red car were 2.2 instead of 22, it would line up better. But I don't see any decimal point there.

So I have no idea what to make of those readings then. And of course, there's all the stuff that Zed Head mentioned too. Different person using different gauge in different ways on different locations on different cars. Who knows what could happen.

It all just looked too weird to me and I wanted to see if someone could put their finger on it.

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1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yeah, that would make more sense and that's why I was wondering if I missed a decimal point or something. If the red car were 2.2 instead of 22, it would line up better. But I don't see any decimal point there.

So I have no idea what to make of those readings then. And of course, there's all the stuff that Zed Head mentioned too. Different person using different gauge in different ways on different locations on different cars. Who knows what could happen.

It all just looked too weird to me and I wanted to see if someone could put their finger on it.

It is strange that no decimal point can be seen in those mil readings. For reference the seller of the "Green Monster" claimed 2 - 5 mils on BAT and posted a video of the readings on that car and other cars.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-datsun-240z-124/

 

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Different colors probably go on at different thicknesses due to their ability to cover.  The Green Monster video was pretty good but that guy kind of just walked around and took a bunch of measurements but didn't say much about why some cars had different thicknesses, besides assuming that a repaint would be thicker than original paint.   He assumes that a second paint job is always thicker, like a painter doesn't strip and sand areas to make them smooth, before painting.

It would be better to have 20 or so specific locations to measure at, and measurements at those points from a whole set of cars, as a database.  The old beat-up $5000 Z's probably have plenty of untouched paint to measure.  That would mean more, I think, than these random measurements.  Good idea, questionable execution.

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I think I found the key to verifying low miles.  "Original cosmoline".  7:00.  It actually is pretty impressive that they found some.

I tried to work at a place that details cars when they came off the ships, before they go to the dealerships, and that stuff is everywhere.  I didn't last, you have to be a human squirrel to do high speed car detailing.

 

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Just read this entire thread top to bottom.

 

 

Firstly, I’m frankly in awe of you guys and your immense knowledge of these cars. I feel even more like an ameba swimming among Great Whites!

 

Secondly, even to my untrained eyes and before reading down, paint readings aside that car didn’t add up to me. I’m very pleased that your comments had a superb positive effect and saved some poor sod from parting with silly money for something dressed up to be something it clearly isn’t.

 

Thirdly, this thread just makes me so pleased that my car is very far from perfect! I just couldn’t own or drive a car that is completely immaculate - it’s a big burden.

 

And I do get it, people buy these as investment and show pieces, but that’s never me. Horses have to stretch their legs and gallop otherwise you may as well stuff them.

 

Thank you for the education on this thread - I have learned so much!

 

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