Jump to content

IGNORED

240ZBUILTBYME 1971 240z HS-001063 Project Sheena


Recommended Posts

36 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Wow That is way too cool Mr X!

You can call me Racer.

 

36 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

 

no wonder you’re smarter than the average bear 🐻...

Aw, shucks, yer makin' me blush.

36 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

that’s crazy the variation in length considering the tolerance of the build, is that due to differences in temperatures, metal expanding etc I would think the hangar where you build would be temperature controlled to mitigate that? 

 

The variance comes from production tolerances, or the difference in size from one part to the next, for each of the thousands of parts that make the whole airplane. Production is carried out inside of buildings sheltered from weather. Although not all buildings are insulated with climate control, the heat generated from the manufacturing activities keeps them at a reasonably consistent temperature day by day. Also, some manufacturing environments are carried out in smaller, insulated and climate controlled buildings to prevent expansion or contraction of parts, such as wing spars, which are over 100 feet long, and could change in length a great deal even under only a small change in temperature.

So a 747-800 (the current model) is about 250 feet long. The fuselage is assembled from a few dozen exterior panel assemblies each made from a few hundred components (skin panels, frames, stringers), hundreds of floor beams and longitudinal beams, the longest being around 25 feet long. Also. when the bolts and rivets are installed, the metal around the holes is displaced, causing some deformation, and elongation, of the parts (this is accounted for in the engineering design). Although the size of the holes are always the same, there are still tolerances, and no two holes are exactly the same size. Additionally, the fasteners vary a bit in size. And when a rivet is driven, or a bolt tightened, again, no two are exactly the same.

So add up a few thousandths of an inch over 250 feet and all the many parts, and 18" isn't much.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way, if you ever find yourself riding in a 747, go to the very last seat at the back, on an aisle. While the plane is taxiing, lean out and look towards the front of it. And during takeoff and flight, do it again.

Observe the floor.

It will twist, ripple, undulate, and curve up and down, so much so one might wonder how it can move this much and not break.

A similar thing can be observed while sitting at a window near the main wings, watching the tips rise and fall, and if one looks closely enough they can be seen to flutter or twist.

Relax, they are suppose to be flexible.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

After completing the chassis jig I decided to hold off on rust repairs until the car is blasted. The next step is to build my rotisserie. 

What I thought would be a relatively simple task turned out to be a nightmare. And upon trying to build the bumper mounts I realized my front end is a dog’s breakfast...

Now I knew the car had been in a front end collision but I didn’t realize it was this bad until I really started studying it. 

A0258AE2-7898-4CE9-A63E-A98C91A9338D.thumb.jpeg.83fa02c9d14cefd4fbdeed738b4a0730.jpeg

Notice the vertical panel kinks outward at the bottom where the front bumper mounts are, it should be straight up vertically, and flat. The radius of the bend should be round (roughly between 55mm radius rear bumper hole 40mm front hole). Mine is almost a 90 degree angle. 

so my dilemma was how to mount the rotisserie if my bumper mounts were more crooked than a politician. 

I used heat and a shrinking hammer to try and shrink the metal in the curved area and bring the radius back to pull the bumper mounts back into line. It worked reasonably well, to repair the area properly I will need to remove the bumper mount reinforcement panel where the jam nuts are. This is the after photo.

 DF603EE9-9D40-4FC6-ACBF-A2D056224BD1.thumb.jpeg.781b61670dfec663d16a8bbe1568dcfa.jpeg

better but a long way to go to get to what it should look like... untainted photo below.

DBCB3CAF-3F25-4936-B264-4A99B5C36C7C.thumb.jpeg.ceba29a039122c1959912ea82d4e05bb.jpeg

The same was done on the other side though the LHS is much worse. 

I wire wheeled the area to get a better look at the real damage, found some damage under some filler. 

247189A3-C38C-44E2-BA1F-DDE606047FD6.thumb.jpeg.1669acabe942565e7e05c6849f73bb08.jpeg34876F46-8DEB-4FA7-A618-7B6EC0975DCD.thumb.jpeg.0b7f926cc0490c63ffcc02544c2fd2bd.jpeg

when it had its collision the impact has sheared the areaaround the edge of the bumper mount reinforcement. 

1FD4A681-C0A6-41E4-8ABE-84842D3832E6.thumb.jpeg.51663eb2a856138c5b07256d573cf32c.jpeg

LHS front of wheel arch is severely deformed. Air Ducting channel is crushed and misshapen. 

9F1A3AA7-08BC-4CD1-8486-F9843ADE56F5.thumb.jpeg.54d39d47ae2c93d696a7fcda9653bb12.jpeg

Area between wheel arch and radiator support has been pushed together, should be a much bigger gap. Rippling in sheet metal.

8D931329-541D-43F0-8C5C-FE3E357FFB50.thumb.jpeg.b8ed22ec3bae81cc0b3d873cff10a81e.jpeg

The more you look at it the worse it gets...

11595147-A639-45A0-B6D6-20FB22B988EE.thumb.jpeg.82627596810e4fbd287714854574abdc.jpeg379389E7-0CCA-4294-A667-9DCCABE1C1F1.thumb.jpeg.491b576aedd90e120ae8f61ec29a5e0a.jpeg

I am now contemplating transplanting the front nose of a untainted car onto mine due to the amount of damage that has been sustained. Anybody have any thoughts on this? As opposed to trying to pull everything out and repair it? 

Despite the significant blow to my morale I carried on and ended up starting the front mounts for the rotisserie.

26D4E603-CC7E-424A-A42B-7EFB834A9D85.thumb.jpeg.92c3c0eb4cfc510cba9d310d0651dae0.jpeg9D60A00B-E230-457C-8DA0-62E42619FAE1.thumb.jpeg.738354af3f5280129a9dd903e0dfd3be.jpeg

I stuffed up and made the horizontal pieces too short.... they don’t clear the nose. What a fool. I had changed my design halfway through and did not account for the larger tube slipping over the vertical length.

001D9466-0B7E-46A9-A081-48D40580E287.thumb.jpeg.ede288eb6698399be0426b6ec2243a84.jpeg

I can make it work, but not ideal....

still so much to learn....

Link to post
Share on other sites

My car has similar damage. I had it checked for being square and level on a frame rack. I dollied some of the wrinkled metal but its impossible to fix it all without removing the radiator support. In the end I dont care that much. I won't be able to see it from the drivers seat and it wont affect anything else

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Patcon said:

I had it checked for being square and level on a frame rack

According to my rudimentary measurements my car is square, I have it on the leveled chassis jig and it is quite level.  Front radiator support is not level, I assume due to the damage, the strut towers are level though, which is the main thing. 

5 hours ago, Patcon said:

I won't be able to see it from the drivers seat and it wont affect anything else

I know you won’t see the damage but I feel like I feel like I’m going to go through so much to get the rest of the car right it would be a shame to not do the best repair possible.

I can either transplant the front section from a cleaner car, roughly from the front quarter of the wheel arch forward. Or I can repair the damage. Either way I’m removing the radiator support In my mind doing the transplant seems cleaner and simpler...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Been there Ryan...

My thoughts - cut it out and replace it while you are still on the jig.  Check out my old thread - start from the bottom of page 5...

Look at the bright side...your metal fab skills are about to go through the roof 😉

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/61483-240z-fabbing-new-front-rails/?&page=5#comments

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my thoughts is good donors in Aussie might be hard to come by.

They're hard to come by where I'm at much less there...

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

After completing the chassis jig I decided to hold off on rust repairs until the car is blasted. The next step is to build my rotisserie. 

What I thought would be a relatively simple task turned out to be a nightmare. And upon trying to build the bumper mounts I realized my front end is a dog’s breakfast...

Now I knew the car had been in a front end collision but I didn’t realize it was this bad until I really started studying it. 

A0258AE2-7898-4CE9-A63E-A98C91A9338D.thumb.jpeg.83fa02c9d14cefd4fbdeed738b4a0730.jpeg

Notice the vertical panel kinks outward at the bottom where the front bumper mounts are, it should be straight up vertically, and flat. The radius of the bend should be round (roughly between 55mm radius rear bumper hole 40mm front hole). Mine is almost a 90 degree angle. 

so my dilemma was how to mount the rotisserie if my bumper mounts were more crooked than a politician. 

I used heat and a shrinking hammer to try and shrink the metal in the curved area and bring the radius back to pull the bumper mounts back into line. It worked reasonably well, to repair the area properly I will need to remove the bumper mount reinforcement panel where the jam nuts are. This is the after photo.

 DF603EE9-9D40-4FC6-ACBF-A2D056224BD1.thumb.jpeg.781b61670dfec663d16a8bbe1568dcfa.jpeg

better but a long way to go to get to what it should look like... untainted photo below.

DBCB3CAF-3F25-4936-B264-4A99B5C36C7C.thumb.jpeg.ceba29a039122c1959912ea82d4e05bb.jpeg

The same was done on the other side though the LHS is much worse. 

I wire wheeled the area to get a better look at the real damage, found some damage under some filler. 

247189A3-C38C-44E2-BA1F-DDE606047FD6.thumb.jpeg.1669acabe942565e7e05c6849f73bb08.jpeg34876F46-8DEB-4FA7-A618-7B6EC0975DCD.thumb.jpeg.0b7f926cc0490c63ffcc02544c2fd2bd.jpeg

when it had its collision the impact has sheared the areaaround the edge of the bumper mount reinforcement. 

1FD4A681-C0A6-41E4-8ABE-84842D3832E6.thumb.jpeg.51663eb2a856138c5b07256d573cf32c.jpeg

LHS front of wheel arch is severely deformed. Air Ducting channel is crushed and misshapen. 

9F1A3AA7-08BC-4CD1-8486-F9843ADE56F5.thumb.jpeg.54d39d47ae2c93d696a7fcda9653bb12.jpeg

Area between wheel arch and radiator support has been pushed together, should be a much bigger gap. Rippling in sheet metal.

8D931329-541D-43F0-8C5C-FE3E357FFB50.thumb.jpeg.b8ed22ec3bae81cc0b3d873cff10a81e.jpeg

The more you look at it the worse it gets...

11595147-A639-45A0-B6D6-20FB22B988EE.thumb.jpeg.82627596810e4fbd287714854574abdc.jpeg379389E7-0CCA-4294-A667-9DCCABE1C1F1.thumb.jpeg.491b576aedd90e120ae8f61ec29a5e0a.jpeg

I am now contemplating transplanting the front nose of a untainted car onto mine due to the amount of damage that has been sustained. Anybody have any thoughts on this? As opposed to trying to pull everything out and repair it? 

Despite the significant blow to my morale I carried on and ended up starting the front mounts for the rotisserie.

26D4E603-CC7E-424A-A42B-7EFB834A9D85.thumb.jpeg.92c3c0eb4cfc510cba9d310d0651dae0.jpeg9D60A00B-E230-457C-8DA0-62E42619FAE1.thumb.jpeg.738354af3f5280129a9dd903e0dfd3be.jpeg

I stuffed up and made the horizontal pieces too short.... they don’t clear the nose. What a fool. I had changed my design halfway through and did not account for the larger tube slipping over the vertical length.

001D9466-0B7E-46A9-A081-48D40580E287.thumb.jpeg.ede288eb6698399be0426b6ec2243a84.jpeg

I can make it work, but not ideal....

still so much to learn....

Some nice pictures Ryan, looks like you're moving forward.

Small trouble at this end though.

I selected the dark theme for the forum that Mike made available recently. The text in your post is the came color as the background, so I can't read it. All other posts in this thread are OK, the text a contrasting color to the background.

Did you choose a font color for this post? Or copy the text from a text editor?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

By the way, if you have access to a donor car with a good front section, it might be a good idea to replace the structure from the firewall forward. You're replacing the frame rails anyway, right?

Separate the structure where it is spot welded at the firewall, and save trouble splicing midway.

Also, check that the firewall wasn't deformed when the other damage occurred.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ConVerTT said:

Been there Ryan...

My thoughts - cut it out and replace it while you are still on the jig.  Check out my old thread - start from the bottom of page 5...

Look at the bright side...your metal fab skills are about to go through the roof 😉

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/61483-240z-fabbing-new-front-rails/?&page=5#comments

 

Kent I could read your thread 1000 times and still be amazed!

Yes I think I need to do something similar, but instead of being really talented and making everything I’ll cheat and get donor panels.

you said your old thread, do you have a new one? I’ve been wondering what stage your car is at.

ryan 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Patcon said:

One of my thoughts is good donors in Aussie might be hard to come by.

They're hard to come by where I'm at much less there...

Yes they are non existent anymore, however I am in luck. My Z specialist has a wrecked car with near a perfect front nose on it. The photo I used above to show what the stock area should look like is the same car I got my cleanish roof skin off. Here’s more photos 

Problem is the radiator support is butchered and the bottom of the wheel arch panel has been removed. But very useable for the repairs I need to do.

EBFA14F4-284B-432E-98BD-ACCE8E24CBCB.jpeg

8768709D-8B7C-4455-9D6A-474B3388466F.jpeg

6501C46D-032B-4FD1-A544-3D4588C2274D.jpeg

8D5246EF-F2B1-4269-8A5A-53A230A78D8C.jpeg

Edited by 240ZBUILTBYME
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Racer X said:

Did you choose a font color for this post? Or copy the text from a text editor?

That’s a negative racer I didn’t touch anything as far as I’m aware... I did copy the text from my page on the Aussie forum.... could that be why? 

3 hours ago, Racer X said:

By the way, if you have access to a donor car with a good front section, it might be a good idea to replace the structure from the firewall forward. You're replacing the frame rails anyway, right?

the thought of doing that scares the bejeezus out of me racer! I’d be much more comfortable leaving the main structure intact and patching what needs replacing. I will check the firewall but nothing that I’ve seen so far. I am indeed replacing the frame rails. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

That’s a negative racer I didn’t touch anything as far as I’m aware... I did copy the text from my page on the Aussie forum.... could that be why? 
 

That would likely be it.

7 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

the thought of doing that scares the bejeezus out of me racer! I’d be much more comfortable leaving the main structure intact and patching what needs replacing. I will check the firewall but nothing that I’ve seen so far. I am indeed replacing the frame rails. 

You mentioned the front of your car is higher on one side. How much?

If you keep the original structure, you will need to determine how much out of position it is, and then figure out how to pull it back where it belongs. A frame machine is how body shops do it, anchoring the chassis down and forcing everything back where it should be.

The engine bay is a large box. After sustaining a hit that deformed that box it is no longer square. Getting it back into shape is crucial for getting the bodywork to fit well again.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/20/2021 at 5:30 PM, Racer X said:

You mentioned the front of your car is higher on one side. How much?

Racer I ended up buying a self leveling laser level, have checked most structural points on the body and found the car is level. I was using a bubble level and it’s difficult to get an accurate reading. The photos of my laser leveling are in this thread:

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I decided to plough on with the rotisserie build as I won’t be attempting repair on my front end until I have the car blasted and up to replacing frame rails/removing radiator support. 

 Progress is coming along nicely.

I realized that if I flipped my mounts and drilled new holes I wouldn’t have to cut and reweld. So now the mounts clear the nose. I love humanities proneness to be lazy.

6C3CF7C1-B76D-4818-90CC-51DC02563DD5.jpeg

notched pipe and mocked up horizontal joiner piece. 
E237AB3F-35B2-41EE-BD08-EE12DE2364BE.jpeg

welded up brackets and jam nuts. My welding is slowly getting better, soon I’ll be able boast about stacking dimes 😂

EEEF06F8-D289-4920-800A-9911D501525C.jpeg

mocked up front base, notched upright for the pipe to fit into snuggly.

34E9EBB3-F04B-487C-A0DA-1D84C16FC6A1.jpeg

Next on the list:

- tack everything together and add extra supports to the base

-install castors

- do a mock install from jig to rotisserie, My goal is to be able to transfer the shell between jig and rotisserie with minimal fuss and effort 

-all going well, weld up front frame and base and move onto  the rear.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's just as well your front supports extend upward. The balance point for the car is on that side of the bolt holes if I remember correctly

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Patcon said:

It's just as well your front supports extend upward. The balance point for the car is on that side of the bolt holes if I remember correctly

I’m basing my design loosely off Kent’s @ConVerTT and trying to go on what he said in his thread which is front mount is 3 inches below the axis of rotation and rear is 5 inches below. 

though not exactly sure where he took that measurement from 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.