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240ZBUILTBYME 1971 240z HS-001063 Project Sheena


240ZBUILTBYME

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6 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

 

So I got a question for the collective... Has anyone come up with a good "solvent" to loosen the old petrified stock original gaskets? They're hard as rocks, stuck like the dickens, and probably harder than the aluminum they're stuck to. I've got the same job ahead of me (getting spacers off intake manifolds) and I've tried the typical methods with little success.

I'm looking for a silver bullet without having to completely powderize what is probably asbestos laced old gasket material.

All these years of experience and I'm asking how to get old gaskets off... Kinda embarrassing.   LOL

First I would try Stoddard solvent, soak them in it. If that doesn't work, maybe try Goof Off, that stuff for removing adhesive.

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Posted (edited)

So I took a couple minutes (which is what I should have done first instead of asking) and Stoddard solvent is basically what they use for dry cleaning.

Kinda like white mineral spirits, but not exactly. Smells (and they say tastes!!) like kerosene, but not exactly.

I'll see if I can turn up a small quantity here and see how it goes.

Thanks for the input!

Edited by Captain Obvious
Should have just done some homework
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@Racer X, Any clever suggestions for how to keep the gasket wet with solvent for a couple hours for it to soak? I've tried the saturated rag on top method in the past, but it dries out too fast.  I don't think I want to drop the whole manifold pair into a full tub of the stuff. How have you kept stuff like that saturated?

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1 hour ago, Captain Obvious said:

@Racer X, Any clever suggestions for how to keep the gasket wet with solvent for a couple hours for it to soak? I've tried the saturated rag on top method in the past, but it dries out too fast.  I don't think I want to drop the whole manifold pair into a full tub of the stuff. How have you kept stuff like that saturated?

I would try a shallow pan, i.e. a cookie sheet (I snag them at garage sales for work in the shop so Mrs. Racer doesn’t scalp me for stealing kitchen stuff). A paper shop towel laid down first should help keep the solvent where you want it, and reduce the minimal amount of evaporation that may occur.

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8 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

I'm looking for a silver bullet without having to completely powderize what is probably asbestos laced old gasket material.

I haven't found any solvents that help on those original gaskets, I have an old Stanley paint scraper like in the pic, not much can resist it.

 

paint scaper.jpg

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21 hours ago, Racer X said:

You might give them a good coat of beeswax, on the parts that are exposed, then buff to a nice gloss.

Will do that! Will be the beeswax will hold up to the heat and fuel? 

15 hours ago, grannyknot said:

I used some sticky backed 400 grit paper on a granite flat 

Will do, I’ll have to buy a granite flat stone. there were minor Imperfections, I didn’t notice any significant warping

12 hours ago, Racer X said:

There is a seller on eBay that has screws for the carbs.

I bought a set about a month ago X! Still waiting on them to arrive though...

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Well I haven't gotten the insulators off the intake manifolds yet, so I don't know which side the gaskets will end up on. I do, however, have the situation with gasket material petrified onto the manifolds where the balance tube goes. I've done some work with the paint scraper razor blade, but got skittish the second time I dug in. The first time you tell yourself "OK, I slipped once... Let's not do that again." And then you do it again.    LOL   I believe the aluminum is softer than the gasket material.

So I haven't caused any unmanageable damage yet, but just wondering if there's a silver bullet.  Granny says "no", but I'm hoping he's just not hit on it yet.

Maybe I'll try the shallow pan Mr. X suggested, and maybe put the whole thing in a bag just to see what happens.  Thanks guys!! 

So before I crawl back to my hole... There ARE concoctions sold on the open market that are named "Gasket Removers". Is this just snake oil?

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10 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

 

So before I crawl back to my hole... There ARE concoctions sold on the open market that are named "Gasket Removers". Is this just snake oil?

 

Never tried them myself, but I suspect they work like the Goof Off, softening the adhesive and dried gasket material.

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10 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Will do that! Will be the beeswax will hold up to the heat and fuel? 

On the outside it should hold up OK. The heat there isn't very high, and there shouldn't be any fuel washing across the outer parts.

Beeswax is pretty stiff and durable.

10 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Will do, I’ll have to buy a granite flat stone. 

If you have stone countertops in your kitchen, you could try that. Be sure and clean up so your wife doesn't get upset.

Or, stop by the local tradesmen who do stone countertops, see f they have a scrap piece you can have. I snagged leftover bits when I built my house.

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1 hour ago, Racer X said:
1 hour ago, Racer X said:

On the outside it should hold up OK. The heat there isn't very high, and there shouldn't be any fuel washing across the outer parts.

Beeswax is pretty stiff and durable.

If you have stone countertops in your kitchen, you could try that. Be sure and clean up so your wife doesn't get upset.

Or, stop by the local tradesmen who do stone countertops, see f they have a scrap piece you can have. I snagged leftover bits when I built my house.

 I've used my table saw table and emery cloth for truing flat surfaces.

 

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On 3/22/2021 at 2:36 PM, Captain Obvious said:

All these years of experience and I'm asking how to get old gaskets off.

No no.. always smart to ask then not to ask.. you can always learn something..

For instans that i don't know how to write forinstans? and no i don't know how to get off those gaskets 🤣

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1 hour ago, dutchzcarguy said:

No no.. always smart to ask then not to ask.. you can always learn something..

For instans that i don't know how to write forinstans? and no i don't know how to get off those gaskets 🤣

For instance . . . . . :beer:

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finally finished building the chassis jig after much toil. It was a journey in learning the basics of metal fabrication and has laid the ground works and basic skills I will need for my rust repairs. Pretty happy with the results considering I hadn’t touched a welder previously. Still much to learn though...

As I will outline in the video I wanted to replace the backbone of the car, floors, chassis and frame rails prior to mounting on rotisserie for blasting. As you will see this will be impossible without extensive repairs to the rockers/doglegs and rears arches. So I have decided to get the whole thing blasted prior to starting any rust repairs. I will be bracing the shell extensively before mounting to the rotisserie. 

please excuse the cheesy thumbnail photo...

B0C54E40-5576-4DBF-B371-4E6DF2A5C7B9.jpeg

ADC1AE05-E0EE-4D44-87B4-7E87B89B51E3.jpeg

Ryan

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Hey Ryan,  Nice to see you do things in mm it's more accurate (Only my opinion!! Haha before i get half of the people here all over me! ;-))    But....

Take a look at vid on 7:54 min.  you made yourself a lot of work.. Take out just the small part that is bad.. you also cut into the corners to far and also in the plate that is behind the piece you tried to take out.. You should also stay away from the door opening, if not very necessary! (Later on it will get you into trouble with the heat of welding.. all unnecessery!)

Also if you take out a rotten piece, make the corners round you'll see that it's much easyer to weld a round corner than a 90 degree corner!  (Use a big drill in corners)

I did not see the whole video as i can't concentrate for a long time..

 

First blast the car to  work on clean steal, then weld all corners and edges and stuff and then you can repair the bigger flat (read floor) pieces..    Maybe read a book on how to restore a car..  And the last thing i wanted to say.. you have to work much more precisely, again that part you took out of the dogleg, it's a biggy..  As the standing steel plate inside is completely rusted away you might think about it to take it completely out.. the dogleg..   But get it blasted clean first...   i see a lot..lot...lot of work here..  (Ive done that myself once.. my car you can lift it on the doglegs (as it supposed to)  it's strong inthere..)

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10 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

Hey Ryan,  Nice to see you do things in mm it's more accurate (Only my opinion!! Haha before i get half of the people here all over me! ;-))    But....

Take a look at vid on 7:54 min.  you made yourself a lot of work.. Take out just the small part that is bad.. you also cut into the corners to far and also in the plate that is behind the piece you tried to take out.. You should also stay away from the door opening, if not very necessary! (Later on it will get you into trouble with the heat of welding.. all unnecessery!)

Also if you take out a rotten piece, make the corners round you'll see that it's much easyer to weld a round corner than a 90 degree corner!  (Use a big drill in corners)

I did not see the whole video as i can't concentrate for a long time..

 

First blast the car to  work on clean steal, then weld all corners and edges and stuff and then you can repair the bigger flat (read floor) pieces..    Maybe read a book on how to restore a car..  And the last thing i wanted to say.. you have to work much more precisely, again that part you took out of the dogleg, it's a biggy..  As the standing steel plate inside is completely rusted away you might think about it to take it completely out.. the dogleg..   But get it blasted clean first...   i see a lot..lot...lot of work here..  (Ive done that myself once.. my car you can lift it on the doglegs (as it supposed to)  it's strong inthere..)

Hahaha thanks mm is much more accurate and you don’t have to work with fractions! 

I had no intention to patch the piece I cut out, (though I may just to practice!) it was to get a better look at the condition of the underlying skins, so yes I was a little nonchalant in my cut. if you have read my thread, that whole panel is getting replaced, I have the rear quarter tabco panel already and outer wheel arch. I’m not too worried. 

that dogleg panel I cut had been repaired previously so it may look like I cut layers underneath but it was the original skin that had not been cut out. 

Yes all the rust will be removed and patched do not worry. I have a very long road ahead of me and I will be an expert in rust repair by the end...

next up for the car is build a rotisserie and send for blasting.

Do appreciate all your advice!

Ryan

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35 minutes ago, Racer X said:

You never measured out to 1/4 mm?

Haha I’m not an engine guy so haven’t had to so far! 

I imagine you would have to move to fractions once working with engine component tolerances!  

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6 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Haha I’m not an engine guy so haven’t had to so far! 

I imagine you would have to move to fractions once working with engine component tolerances!  

I use decimals, it's easier.

At work we build airplanes to the nearest 1/1000th of an inch, but we express it as 0.001".

 

 

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Wow 😳 once you’re working at those sorts of tolerances you’re working in fractions/decimals anyway...

do you build the frame/body or the engines? I imagine the slightest variation in building the body/frame would alter the aircraft during flight. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Racer X said:

You never measured out to 1/4 mm?

Hahaha... thats 0.25 mm overhere! 😉

10 hours ago, Racer X said:

At work we build airplanes to the nearest 1/1000th of an inch, but we express it as 0.001".

I have to react to this haha...  I once worked with studio equipment, still have some high quality stuff laying around and using some still after 34 years! (Look it up a revox b215 is one of those machines)  I was once at the factory in switserland and they make capstanshafts on a machine that measures 1/1000 of a millimeter! (For big taperecorders like the ReVox PR99, Studer A800 etc.etc.)  so 0,001 mm exact.  They make the shaft and then have to let it rest for a year in storage. Then after about  a year they put it in a machine that measures it and if it's out of tolerance ... it's scrap!

Her you see a machine made in switserland (Possible also in Germany (Studer revox still in Germany activ.)) The capstan is a shaft that gives the speed to a tape, it's that dark shaft just peaking out on top of the beige pressureroller. A recorder like this is as big as a jukebox and costed a million swiss franks and thats about $600.000,- This was in the 1980's.. today they are much cheaper..

De bronafbeelding bekijken

Edited by dutchzcarguy
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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Wow 😳 once you’re working at those sorts of tolerances you’re working in fractions/decimals anyway...

do you build the frame/body or the engines? I imagine the slightest variation in building the body/frame would alter the aircraft during flight. 

I am a structures mechanic. Anything that is part of the airframe is what I (we) work on. As aerospace machinists our job is to fit and assemble commercial jet airliners, freighters and tankers (for the military). So far I have been part of the manufacture of the Boeing 777 (wings and fuselage), 777X (fuselage), and the 767 freighter and its derivative the KC-46 tanker (fuselage).

The airplanes are assembled in huge jigs, we call them “the tool”. The 777 wing assembly jig is huge, 4 stories tall, with a footprint larger than an American football field. 4 pairs of wings are assembled simultaneously. So the machinists are working “in the tool”.

The wing spars are also assembled in a tool, about 60 feet wide and 120 feet long. 
 

The 767, 747 body sections are assembled into larger sub assemblies in large 4 story high tools, similar to the wing assembly tools. The legacy 777 (metal wings) was assembled in a similar tool, which was removed and replaced by crawlers for a “moving” assembly line to also build the 777X.

After the wings and fuselage sections are complete they get joined at wing/body join, then final body join. 
 

At each step the various pieces are loaded into the tooling, positioned using indexes and checked with lasers to the nearest 0.001”.

Still, when an airplane is complete, due to manufacturing tolerances, each one is different in length.

I’ve read that a 747 can vary in length by as much as 18”.

 

So I suppose that none of them are perfectly straight, but all modern airplanes have provisions to trim, or adjust the airplane for straight and level flight.

 

 

The engines are manufactured elsewhere, and installed on the airplane by engine technicians who specialize in the hookup and installation of the engines.

 

Edited by Racer X
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Posted (edited)

Nice work Ryan!  Way to stick with it!
 

So i would cut out all the rust on the jig, fix the floor and rockers and then go to the rotisserie personally.  The jig holds everything straight.  I did each rocker and the front rails separately, but I am certain I could have cut more away at once. 

The floors basically attach to the trans tunnel and the inner rocker.  I had patched my inner rockers but once I got it on the jig I actually cut it all the way out and replaced it.  The frame didn't budge.  Same thing when I did the front rails.  
 

Have fun!!!!

Edited by ConVerTT
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Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2021 at 2:12 AM, Racer X said:

I am a structures mechanic. Anything that is part of the airframe is what I (we) work on. As aerospace machinists our job is to fit and assemble commercial jet airliners, freighters and tankers (for the military). So far I have been part of the manufacture of the Boeing 777 (wings and fuselage), 777X (fuselage), and the 767 freighter and its derivative the KC-46 tanker (fuselage).

 

Wow That is way too cool Mr X! no wonder you’re smarter than the average bear 🐻...

that’s crazy the variation in length considering the tolerance of the build, is that due to differences in temperatures, metal expanding etc I would think the hangar where you build would be temperature controlled to mitigate that? 

 

Edited by 240ZBUILTBYME
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