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Zed Head

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1 hour ago, Racer X said:

Except that being vaccinated only protects the individual vaccinated from the bug. They can still become a carrier and spread it to the unvaccinated.

The only way to eradicate a pest is to destroy it completely. The only way to destroy it completely is to eliminate any viable hosts.

Vaccinating any and all viable hosts is the only way.

 

So you dont see this pandemic ending? Most pandemics ends within 1.5-2 years. Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them. 

 

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Flu doesn't do anything near to what Covid has done.  It may come down to an annual vaccine, just like a flu shot.  This virus is mutating, and in that respect, I don't see the pandemic ending.  I'm beginning to think that we may have to learn to live with it.

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1 hour ago, DC871F said:

So you dont see this pandemic ending? Most pandemics ends within 1.5-2 years. Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them. 

 

Eventually, yes.

After one, or both, of two things happens.

As a society we all get behind a collective effort at eradicating the virus.

Or, it kills off all those who refuse to get vaccinated.

And like I said, or both.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Racer X said:

"Or, it kills off all those who refuse to get vaccinated."

About 1% die from covid, give or take. I got covid before there was a vaccine, so did my wife and two kids. 

Pretending that the rate of death is 10% is something I don't understand.

No outrage from many other things in our society that kill as many or more than covid. I guess it's low hanging fruit for political consumption.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DC871F
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12 hours ago, DC871F said:

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics
More than 38,000 people die every year in crashes on U.S. roadways. The U.S. traffic fatality rate is 12.4 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. An additional 4.4 million are injured seriously enough to require medical attention.

 
@DC871F I believe I can usually figure out what people are trying to say when they post stuff, but in this case, I'm sorry but I'm at a loss.
 
What does traffic death statistics have to do with covid? Why are you posting that?
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15 hours ago, DC871F said:

So you dont see this pandemic ending? Most pandemics ends within 1.5-2 years.Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them. 

@DC871FCould you please cite your sources for the info above? I'd like to review the data.

The reason I'm questioning is that Zed Head's numbers (cited with links from the CDC) do not support your claim and I'm wondering if it's a math mistake or what. According to the estimates cited by ZH, there were a TOTAL of 209 thousand who died in the US from the flu IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, while there were about 500 thousand who died from covid IN JUST LAST YEAR.

When I look at that data, my takeaway is "in just 2020 alone, over twice as many people died in the US from covid than the last combined TEN years of the flu." That's what the numbers look like to me.

I'm not sure I'm looking at it right... Am I misinterpreting the CDC's numbers?

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36 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:
 
@DC871F I believe I can usually figure out what people are trying to say when they post stuff, but in this case, I'm sorry but I'm at a loss.
 
What does traffic death statistics have to do with covid? Why are you posting that?

Doing a little surfing on data, I found it interesting that the (annual) US deaths from car accidents is at current covid deaths (per week). Nothing more than that.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry CO, I left out some middle years just to make the size of the post smaller.  13, 14, 15, and 16 add up to 150,000 so 359,000 is the correct ten year number.

image.png

Edited by Zed Head
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31 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

@DC871FCould you please cite your sources for the info above? I'd like to review the data.

The reason I'm questioning is that Zed Head's numbers (cited with links from the CDC) do not support your claim and I'm wondering if it's a math mistake or what. According to the estimates cited by ZH, there were a TOTAL of 209 thousand who died in the US from the flu IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, while there were about 500 thousand who died from covid IN JUST LAST YEAR.

When I look at that data, my takeaway is "in just 2020 alone, over twice as many people died in the US from covid than the last combined TEN years of the flu." That's what the numbers look like to me.

I'm not sure I'm looking at it right... Am I misinterpreting the CDC's numbers?

My data was worldwide. 

Just over 2% of the worldwide cases have died from covid, 4.5m deaths. 217m cases.

I argue that many like one of my daughters was asymptomatic, so 217m cases is not an accurate number. How many millions are asymptomatic that have not been tested?

Add the political aspect of covid, and I think the numbers are not an accurate representation. I know 3 separate families that had grandparents die at old age, and the cause of death was covid, when they never had it. One hospital told the daughter that if they put covid as the death that the hospital gets more funding and Fed support. By no means am I down playing the pandemic, but there is no consistently, and if the worldwide cases are 217m, then I know for a fact it should be 217,000,003.

But I'm not an epidemiologist, and I wont pretend I'm one either like so many people do these days.

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Such a complicated topic that has so divided people and created a host of conspiracies theories. There is some much crap to wade through to find understanding in this. If you remember the former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld he had a famous quote which is fitting, called: “knowns”. We still have known unknowns and unknown unknowns with this virus.



Here’s how I break it down. Keep it simple and apply Occam’s Razors when you have so many knowns unknowns and unknown unknowns.

1. Conspiracy theory’s have been rampant because we have censoring, censoring people and ideas is the leading cause of conspiracy theories. We need all voices to be heard in the public forum EVEN when false. Let the professionals discount them but when you silence them their words gain traction .

2. I believe vaccinations is the best road map to get to this behind us. It’s a tool and not the solution. Solution is natural immunity. The vaccine could save your life and help you develop a natural immunity to variants. We need to minimize the damage and death until we get more natural herd immunity in the population. With natural immunity you’ll have a defense against variants. I don’t think your need boosters once your body has a robust immune response the to SAR-Cov2 virus. The unvaccinated might fare far worse with a wild variant because they don’t have any immune response to put up and the next variant could be more deadly. A person with an immune response might just feel a little ill and need a few days off work .

I was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, got both doses. 4 months later I got Covid. It was mild and minimal symptoms BUT I was highly contagious which is where there is a threat to others not vaccinated . I’ve been way worse in my life, this was a 2 out of 10 for me as far as severity.

Bottom line: I trust the scientists, doctors and Heath care providers I , don’t really trust much of what is said by the federal government because many politicians are more concerned with self than the county so they like to spin things that protect them even at the expense of others. In this case the government is doing what they think is best but ....government isn’t good at most things so a “C” is acceptable to them. We still have unknown unknowns and as months progress things will change and we’ll will get more knowns until then I choose to trust the people that spent all their life studying virus and have a PHD over some blow hard on YouTube that thinks the vaccine or
The virus is a hoax.
Off my soap box now....there is work to do in my garage!!!!


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5 hours ago, DC871F said:

I think the numbers are not an accurate representation.

I watch the numbers to see the trends, so accuracy is not super critical.

And, in the big scheme the overloading of the hospitals would be pretty hard to fake.  Those people aren't lying when they say there's no room left.  I don't think that refrigerator trucks for the dead bodies are being borrowed for media hype either.

Idaho is way up there on the "you're on your own" scale and the governor is asking for help.  That's a sign.

https://ktvz.com/news/ap-oregon-northwest/2021/08/31/idaho-governor-calls-in-help-amid-surge-in-covid-patients/

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-officials-asked-5-refrigerated-010202435.html

https://covidactnow.org/us/texas-tx/?s=22401166

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Posted (edited)

I just found instructions for a fingertip pulse oximeter by a neighbor's car.  Texted her to see if they were hers and found that a friend of hers had just contracted COVID even though her friend was vaccinated months back.   She had just delivered the oximeter to her porch.  Thinks she got it in a stuffy thrift store that had unmasked patrons.  She was masked but got it anyway.  So now she's living alone checking her blood oxygen level and waiting.

Watched a soccer game over the weekend in Columbus Ohio with stands packed with people singing and shouting.  NFL is starting.  Schools are starting.  Hate to see it but the next wave is here and going to get bigger.  Get your guard back up.

Here is hospitalizations.  Forget about your elective surgeries.  Stay healthy.

image.png

Edited by Zed Head
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My son's company announced today that they're extending their "work from home" program until January 10, 2022 at which time they'll reevaluate to determine a possible date to return to the office.  He was hired in March 2020 just as Google was deciding everyone would work remotely.  He's never met his boss or coworkers in person and only gone to the office once about a month ago just to see what it was like.  Interestingly, Google offers employees gifts, classes, days off, and other incentives to keep employees from going stir crazy.

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5 hours ago, Zed Head said:

I watch the numbers to see the trends, so accuracy is not super critical.

And, in the big scheme the overloading of the hospitals would be pretty hard to fake.  Those people aren't lying when they say there's no room left.  I don't think that refrigerator trucks for the dead bodies are being borrowed for media hype either.

Idaho is way up there on the "you're on your own" scale and the governor is asking for help.  That's a sign.

https://ktvz.com/news/ap-oregon-northwest/2021/08/31/idaho-governor-calls-in-help-amid-surge-in-covid-patients/

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-officials-asked-5-refrigerated-010202435.html

https://covidactnow.org/us/texas-tx/?s=22401166

864 deaths last week Nationwide. Hospitals are getting crowded, but people are recovering, not dying. My analogy with monthly traffic deaths are on par with covid, but never heard of refer trucks for that issue.

Edit; I never once said or believe any of this is fake, but the numbers I think are not accurate.

Edited by DC871F
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I linked an article about the need for the trucks.  People are definitely dying from COVID-19.

It's definitely hard to keep up with what's happening in the world.  There's a lot going on right now.

image.png

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On 8/30/2021 at 4:11 PM, Racer X said:

Except that being vaccinated only protects the individual vaccinated from the bug. They can still become a carrier and spread it to the unvaccinated.

The only way to eradicate a pest is to destroy it completely. The only way to destroy it completely is to eliminate any viable hosts.

Vaccinating any and all viable hosts is the only way.

 

Interesting. Eliminate the population and the disease disappears!  Brilliant!

Slightly hard on the population, but there you are.

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For the people who say stuff like "Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them", I took a quick look for some covid/flu comparisons for the US.*

From >> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2020-2021.htm

Flu activity was unusually low throughout the 2020-2021 flu season both in the United States and globally, despite high levels of testing. The low level of flu activity during this past season contributed to dramatically fewer flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths compared with previous flu seasons.

And from >> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/week10.htm here it is in graphical format:
NCHS10.GIF

When comparing the data, I get two quick takeaways. First... There were very few flu cases or deaths in the 20-21 season, and in fact, there were so few that they aren't even recognizable on the chart when compared with previous years. And second (and even more important)... The data shows a clear discrediting of the belief that "covid is just another flu".

Why is that so clear? Because in 2020 and 2021, many people adjusted their lifestyle in an attempt to not get covid. Those lifestyle modifications included such things like social distancing, wearing masks, remote work and learning, etc. And a welcome side benefit of those covid mitigation techniques is that they practically eliminated the flu in 20-21. (cite the same source as above for details)

But those lifestyle changes clearly didn't eliminate covid. Despite those mitigation efforts we unfortunately STILL gave up over 600000 people to covid. We didn't give up many at all to the flu, but IN SPITE of all of those lifestyle changes we unfortunately gave up a whole bunch to covid.

So the data clearly shows that covid is way worse than just another flu. It's way worse. Not only have we lost more people to covid (in just one year), than the past TEN years of the flu combined, but the techniques employed to slow the spread of covid were pretty much crushed the spread of flu, but were not nearly as effective against covid. Why? Well it's certainly not because covid is just another flu. 

And when people compare covid and the flu like this: "Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them." They are downplaying the severity of the pandemic.

I'm hoping that downplay isn't intentional. I'm thinking they just haven't seen the data.

 

*Sorry @DC871F, I didn't get any source citations for your numbers, so I can't work with them.

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4 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

For the people who say stuff like "Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them", I took a quick look for some covid/flu comparisons for the US.*

From >> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2020-2021.htm

Flu activity was unusually low throughout the 2020-2021 flu season both in the United States and globally, despite high levels of testing. The low level of flu activity during this past season contributed to dramatically fewer flu illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths compared with previous flu seasons.

And from >> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weeklyarchives2020-2021/week10.htm here it is in graphical format:
NCHS10.GIF

When comparing the data, I get two quick takeaways. First... There were very few flu cases or deaths in the 20-21 season, and in fact, there were so few that they aren't even recognizable on the chart when compared with previous years. And second (and even more important)... The data shows a clear discrediting of the belief that "covid is just another flu".

Why is that so clear? Because in 2020 and 2021, many people adjusted their lifestyle in an attempt to not get covid. Those lifestyle modifications included such things like social distancing, wearing masks, remote work and learning, etc. And a welcome side benefit of those covid mitigation techniques is that they practically eliminated the flu in 20-21. (cite the same source as above for details)

But those lifestyle changes clearly didn't eliminate covid. Despite those mitigation efforts we unfortunately STILL gave up over 600000 people to covid. We didn't give up many at all to the flu, but IN SPITE of all of those lifestyle changes we unfortunately gave up a whole bunch to covid.

So the data clearly shows that covid is way worse than just another flu. It's way worse. Not only have we lost more people to covid (in just one year), than the past TEN years of the flu combined, but the techniques employed to slow the spread of covid were pretty much crushed the spread of flu, but were not nearly as effective against covid. Why? Well it's certainly not because covid is just another flu. 

And when people compare covid and the flu like this: "Flu kills hundreds of thousands every year, covid will be just one of them." They are downplaying the severity of the pandemic.

I'm hoping that downplay isn't intentional. I'm thinking they just haven't seen the data.

 

*Sorry @DC871F, I didn't get any source citations for your numbers, so I can't work with them.

I stated a few post up somewhere where I do believe there is a severity to covid, but not like it was last year. Me saying covid will be like another flu was the fact that it will be with us, but not pandemic or even epidemic levels.

I'm not downplaying the pandemic, but I wont subscribe to the fever pitch attitude either, nor the brow beating of vaccinated to unvaccinated, masks no masks, lockdowns no lockdowns. Divide and conquer is a real thing, and there are several entities in this Nation that are doing just that. Covid wont be on the radar some day and then many around us will have to move on or carry this torch for many years to come. Reminds me of a certain period in this Nations history that many still bring up today.

Covid bad, but there are many things that covid brought us that are far worse and will be with us many years after covid is gone.

 

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Doesn't matter much really, because you're obviously not reading the posts with the facts and the links to the facts.  My posts and CO's posts are from the CDC web site data.  You're right, we're all free to believe what we want to believe.

I'd hate to be working in healthcare in Idaho though.  Looks like you can't get care there, no matter what you want to believe.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/coronavirus/article253905873.html

This guy is just a CEO of a large healthcare provider.  Not sure where he gets his facts.  This is from yesterday, not last year.

https://www.primaryhealth.com/blog/urgent-care-clinics-over-capacity

“I’ve been in urgent care and primary care for 30 years, and it’s inconceivable to me we’re at a point where we can’t see all the patients who want to see us,” Dr. David Peterman, CEO of Primary Health, said in a news release. “Our health care workers are exhausted and working hard to see every patient and answer every call. But at some point, it’s just too much. This is a serious crisis.”

Edited by Zed Head
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On 8/31/2021 at 8:41 AM, Av8ferg said:

Such a complicated topic that has so divided people and created a host of conspiracies theories. There is some much crap to wade through to find understanding in this. If you remember the former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld he had a famous quote which is fitting, called: “knowns”. We still have known unknowns and unknown unknowns with this virus.
 

 


Here’s how I break it down. Keep it simple and apply Occam’s Razors when you have so many knowns unknowns and unknown unknowns.

1. Conspiracy theory’s have been rampant because we have censoring, censoring people and ideas is the leading cause of conspiracy theories. We need all voices to be heard in the public forum EVEN when false. Let the professionals discount them but when you silence them their words gain traction .

2. I believe vaccinations is the best road map to get to this behind us. It’s a tool and not the solution. Solution is natural immunity. The vaccine could save your life and help you develop a natural immunity to variants. We need to minimize the damage and death until we get more natural herd immunity in the population. With natural immunity you’ll have a defense against variants. I don’t think your need boosters once your body has a robust immune response the to SAR-Cov2 virus. The unvaccinated might fare far worse with a wild variant because they don’t have any immune response to put up and the next variant could be more deadly. A person with an immune response might just feel a little ill and need a few days off work .

I was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, got both doses. 4 months later I got Covid. It was mild and minimal symptoms BUT I was highly contagious which is where there is a threat to others not vaccinated . I’ve been way worse in my life, this was a 2 out of 10 for me as far as severity.

Bottom line: I trust the scientists, doctors and Heath care providers I , don’t really trust much of what is said by the federal government because many politicians are more concerned with self than the county so they like to spin things that protect them even at the expense of others. In this case the government is doing what they think is best but ....government isn’t good at most things so a “C” is acceptable to them. We still have unknown unknowns and as months progress things will change and we’ll will get more knowns until then I choose to trust the people that spent all their life studying virus and have a PHD over some blow hard on YouTube that thinks the vaccine or
The virus is a hoax.
Off my soap box now....there is work to do in my garage!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Just speaking to #1, I could comment on more but won’t. 
 

lots of healthcare professionals, me included will not take the time to correct the ignorant. It’s a waste of our time and usually, no minds are changed. Brookfield defines learning as “a permanent change in behavior. That isn’t going to happen with someone who believes ivermectin is going to save them. 
 

 

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