Mint '71 240Z - More Fun Coming to BaT

[mgmoreau]

36 minutes ago, zspert said:

In my view the reality is this - 2 guys with deep pockets JUST HAD TO HAVE IT!!! Also, male ego backed by plenty of bux equals too much macho. 

Wow, I guess the value of my stash of Holy Grail parts just went up a couple of notches. If buyer wants a set of NOS factory plug wires he should give me a call!     Cheers

Mike if the buyers calls for a set of NOS plug wires I want a commission! ??

[christoffel]

1 hour ago, mgmoreau said:

Mike if the buyers calls for a set of NOS plug wires I want a commission! ??

Mike, you know I want them!

[Gav240z]

2 hours ago, ConVerTT said:

Lol - but the Datsun will fire right up ??

Plus don't have to refinance the house just to pay for the service costs. ?

[bartsscooterservice]

I have to say it's alot of money offcourse. But like said earlier a whole new generation withs lots of cash is coming to this world...

Must say I saw this coming years ago allready, when there was a sudden value rise in the average 240Z.. knowing it can only go up more once these things get older and rarer.

It's the same with the muscle cars… not so much, but try to buy a decent 71 chevelle ss 454 ? You will pay big bucks...

[bpilati]

On 1/10/2020 at 4:50 AM, 87mj said:

I have a 6/70 that is a '71. 

Yes I saw those hub caps right away too. ? The first thing I would do if I owned that car is pull those seats and sit them on a shelf.  If indeed that is the original poor quality upholstery, they will begin to tear within the next 500 miles. That would sicken me on an original low mile car.

If that car is everything reported so far, it's a trailer queen. You don't drive that.

[bpilati]

1 hour ago, Jason240z said:

Hes an ego who wants to be seen as an expert, i'm not sure what goes on between him and the crook* who runs the '240guild'.

 

*ex-crook

What does this mean?

[Jason240z]

16 minutes ago, bpilati said:

What does this mean?

I've edited my post to provide some historical insight, should explain.

[HS30-H]

On 1/29/2020 at 10:50 AM, bartsscooterservice said:

He didn't design it for sure, but he made it a succes in the states.

People make mistakes, I did to

We all make mistakes. No shame in that. It's part of the learning process, and heaven knows there's plenty of misinformation out there to lead us astray, but I just don't understand how or why people can become so convinced that Yutaka Katayama was a qualified engineer (he wasn't) and/or that he "designed" what people are calling "the 240Z". 

Can I ask, what makes you say that Katayama san "made it a success in the states"? I'm interested to hear how you think that happened, or how it played out. What did he do to make it a success? I would have thought that the main factors in making the 240Z a sales success in North America were:

1. A good product (and everything that goes with that).
2. A recommended selling price of around $3,800 US.
3. A customer base of the suitable demographic (young or young at heart, with funds or access to credit, 'sporty' enough to live with a 2-seater or having access to other vehicles).
4. Economics (Dollar to Yen exchange rate, shipping logistics, all overheads etc) to make the whole project viable.

Yes, it was a great product. I'm still full of admiration for the many people who made Nissan's S30-series Z what it was, but in order to meet the targeted (low!) selling price the content of the HLS30U models was pared down and there was clearly some wrangling and struggle - right down to the wire and, in fact, through the first weeks of production - over what would be included in the final spec of the HLS30U, HLS30UN and HLS30UV variants. 

Was Katayama lobbying Nissan for *more*, or for *less* content? More content (carpets, heated glass, radio & auto antenna, clock, Deluxe seats, factory aircon etc) would have pushed up the selling price, whilst a simplified pretty much one-spec-fits-all (no 'Standard' and 'Deluxe' choice) with limited options would simplify production, reduce costs and simplify delivery logistics. I believe there's a largely untold story here.

What exactly are we crediting Katayama san with?     

 

 

 

[HS30-H]

3 hours ago, Jason240z said:

Hes an ego who wants to be seen as an expert, i'm not sure what goes on between him guy who runs the '240guild'.

He's not doing very well with the 'expert' part. He seems to be convinced that headlamp covers were "aftermarket only" (they were a showroom option in Japan from the beginning of production, then standard equipment on the Fairlady 240Z-L from October 1971, and always available for Export markets should you wish to purchase from Nissan) and that stripe kits were "aftermarket only" when - again - they were a showroom option in Japan and offered, with a factory part number, for other Export markets.

If he's got 30+ of these cars then he can't have been looking very closely at them or the stories behind them.

[240260280]

Well Katayama did a heck of a lot prior to the Z so one can easily see how he had the experience and skills to help move the project in the right direction. This is amplified by his love of auto racing

• He conceived and supported a car design through to manufacturing in the 40's at Nissan http://zhome.com/History/FlyingFeather.htm
• He hung out with stationed Americans and chaired the start of the SCCN (Japan's equivalent to the SCCA) ~1950
• Conceived, organized, and executed the first Tokyo Motor Show 1954.
• He got Nissan back into racing (post war Australian Rally) and won 1958!
• He witnessed the post war car boom and sports car boom in the USA .
• He sold the first Nissan sports cars in the USA 1960
• A gazillion other major and minor items.

He was capable, knew sports cars, knew Americans and America, knew Japan and corporate Japan. There is no reason to think his roll in the S30 was not significant.

I don't think one can find another such individual in Nissan or even Japan at the time.

 

SCCJ Publication, Vol.1.No.1 April 1952 Racing in Japan....yup that is Mr K with the racing goggles.

[SpeedRoo]

The great thing about the internet is that anyone can be an expert. Pick your subject and start typing. There's no checks and balances everyone can have an opinion, it's the most democratic place on earth. The guys on BAT tend to specialise in the 240Z that came to America and have expertise on those. No one is necessarily right or wrong as it's just an opinion, it's up to the reader to decide what they want to believe. Ego seems to determine how much of an expert they are, the bigger the ego seems to equate with more expertise on the internet. The great thing is there are still people out there that work and have worked on the 240Z since they were built. Their accumulated experience is available to those that ask and they share freely. It's very rare to find them online as they are busy doing what they do best. It's great the green 240Z was sold over the internet, it created lots of discussion and preserved a photographic record of a near original car that has been well cared for. All in all everyone was a winner, expert or not!

Now for a question on the green car, was it standard to have a block off plate in the centre console where the throttle lever would have been. I had never seen one before.

[HS30-H]

15 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

• He conceived and supported a car design through to manufacturing in the 40's at Nissan http://zhome.com/History/FlyingFeather.htm
• He hung out with stationed Americans and chaired the start of the SCCN (Japan's equivalent to the SCCA) ~1950
• Conceived, organized, and executed the first Tokyo Motor Show 1954.
• He got Nissan back into racing (post war Australian Rally) and won 1958!
• He witnessed the post war car boom and sports car boom in the USA .
• He sold the first Nissan sports cars in the USA 1960
• A gazillion other major and minor items.

1. The Flying Feather was conceived and engineered by Ryuichi Tomiya, and manufactured by Suminoe. Katayama was a friend of Tomiya and promoted/advertised the product. It was not a Nissan product, so I don't know what "at Nissan" means above?
2. I think you mean the SCCJ (Sports Car Club of Japan) which was started by a like-minded group of individuals, not just Katayama.
3. As above, an event that the Japanese auto industry agreed it needed, and was put together by more than one person.
4. Participation in the '58 Mobilgas Round Australia Trial was originally the idea of Yasuharu Nanba.
5. So did quite a lot of other people. Soichi Kawazoe in particular.
6. Did he? Are we to suppose that - Nissan having sent this (SPL212?) to the United States - it would not have been sold had it not been for Katayama?
7. OK.... so nobody else was doing anything of any consequence then?

None of the above is any attempt at the diminution of Yutaka Katayama. What I'm really saying is that people tend to put Katayama in the frame for things that were often team efforts, and/or conceived and executed by others, and/or including Katayama.