Do NOT buy a 123ignition distributor.

[Rill Cosby]

Well, to not keep you guys waiting I went out and decided to do a dry and wet test.

Piston number 4 being the culprit in bold.

Dry - 173 - 175 -178 - 137 - 178 - 178

Wet - 182 - 185 - 187 - 166 - 185 - 185 

As far as tearing down the head that will be a little ways from now. If ever.

[Patcon]

28 minutes ago, Rill Cosby said:

Well, to not keep you guys waiting I went out and decided to do a dry and wet test.

Piston number 4 being the culprit in bold.

Dry - 173 - 175 -178 - 137 - 178 - 178

Wet - 182 - 185 - 187 - 166 - 185 - 185 

As far as tearing down the head that will be a little ways from now. If ever.

The wet number is much better (all with in 10%). That would suggest a ring issue

[Zed Head]

Could be from detonation.  Detonation breaks rings and ring lands. 

Any chance you could describe or show the advance curve that you were using?  And the details of the engine?  Is it stock compression ratio?  Could be the problem wasn't losing advance but having too much. 

[Rill Cosby]

4 minutes ago, Patcon said:

The wet number is much better (all with in 10%). That would suggest a ring issue

That was my theory since the beginning. The problem was that there wasn't enough evidence to back that up, although that wasn't the purpose of this thread. I'm just going by the history of the engine, the few things I did look at and also, to be honest, the smell.

It's a ring issue like I expected and now we are right back to the beginning. What caused it? I'm still keeping my eye on detonation issues. Surprisingly enough it just so happens I installed a part that controls detonation greatly, that also shows signs of faults. Not only externally but showed malfunction internally. But the latter is my word against nobody elses. That is until Ed of 123ignition tests it, after he has to replace the cap.

[Rill Cosby]

3 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

Could be from detonation.  Detonation breaks rings and ring lands. 

Any chance you could describe or show the advance curve that you were using?  And the details of the engine?  Is it stock compression ratio?  Could be the problem wasn't losing advance but having too much. 

[grannyknot]

That is a mild advance curve,  usually that would be up at 34-37 by 3000 rpm.

[Rill Cosby]

3 minutes ago, grannyknot said:

That is a mild advance curve,  usually that would be up at 34-37 by 3000 rpm.

That is their factory installed curve for their distributor for our vehicles. I didn't even get to play with all the fun stuff.

[Zed Head]

That's what is on top of initial.   If initial was set to 10 then it's 39 at 8000 RPM.  Plus there's the MAP curve underneath.  

Ideally the timing would have been verified by a timing light.

[Rill Cosby]

2 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

That's what is on top of initial.   If initial was set to 10 then it's 39 at 8000 RPM.  Plus there's the MAP curve underneath.  

Ideally the timing would have been verified by a timing light.

Verified by timing light. Mentioned in emails and my original post as well.

[Zed Head]

21 hours ago, Rill Cosby said:

I have one and used one but the instructions state you rotate the distributor according to the direction your rotor within the cap rotates and stop once a light illuminates within the distributor. There is a small window you'd get this correct without a timing light. Other customers had this problem.

After installation is complete the car starts up no problem once timing is set.

This isn't enough.  The initial timing advance number needs to be verified with a light, at least.  Ideally, the person doing the install would then verify both MAP and centrifugal advance by revving the engine with and without the vacuum hose attached.  If you just go through their procedure and end up at 15 degrees initial you'll be over advanced when the engine is running.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that there is a post out there somewhere about the install procedure not working right and having to go back to basics.  Trust but verify.

Without the numbers there's not much to go on.

[Rill Cosby]

58 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

If you just go through their procedure and end up at 15 degrees initial you'll be over advanced when the engine is running.

That sure seems like that would be a fault of theirs. Your engine is too advanced because of their procedure. But that is not my case. Their instructions do not state to double check with a timing light, though I did. And I believe they don't say that for a reason which will be explained below. I had to use one to get it running. That seems to be the case for multiple people and also for me. This is where the timing light comes in to play. Why would you have a timing light available and set static timing at say 15? I wouldn't. I know static timing varies from vehicle to vehicle when using this ignition but static timing of 0 - 10 should not cause any issues here. I say that because

"Static timing is set at TDC. When you crank the engine, the 123 fires at 0 degrees advance until the engine starts and achieves 500rpm. Then the programming comes into play, activating the chosen curve and setting the idle advance at 10 degrees. It provides 10 degrees between 500 and 1000 rpm. Beyond that the selected curve takes over." 

Example

Following instructions gives you 10 degrees at 0 to 1000 rpm. Above 1000 rpm timing is according to the curve selected. 

Using a timing light setting 10 degrees up to 1000 rpm is exactly the same timing as above. 

Setting the timing to other than 10 degrees "shifts" the curve higher or lower by the difference from 10 degrees. So, if timing is set to 15 degrees at idle (under 1000 rpm) then the maximum advance will be 5 degrees higher than specified by your chosen curve. 

[AK260]

Looks like they have updated the instructions with more cap options, so maybe your feedback hasn't fallen on deaf ears.

 

http://www.123ignition.nl/files/manuals/123manual_TUNEPLUS.pdf

 

Buddy I'm genuinely gutted to hear your woes on this and do hope you save the engine. At least it affords you the possibility to build it into something meaner!