KONI Sports for Classic Z's

[madkaw]

I guess I don’t understand your logic . Variance in parts is why you provide a cushion . Also, these shocks were designed to drop in a tube so they need to fit the tube- regardless if it was designed for oil 50 years ago . These shocks were designed or engineered in the last year - at most ? 
Yes it’s a 9/71 . 

[Zed Head]

The engineers in 1971 probably would not even have set a spec on the bottom inside corner of the tube.  There was no need, there was no part that needed to fit there with the original application.  That's my logic on why some have a problem and some don't.  The variation is great, because there was no measurement spec.

But, you're right that Koni should have considered that fact when they produced a part for old 240Z's.  Somehow they overlooked it, and, apparently, assumed that they would all be "the same".  They messed up.  Surprised though, that they gave up on you.  That's not good.

My other logic is that griping at Koni isn't going to get the part in to the tube.  That's why I offered the Nissan gland nut solution.

[Zed Head]

They probably should have used a shorter shock and a standoff, of smaller diameter, at the bottom.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Zed Head

[madkaw]

37 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

They probably should have used a shorter shock and a standoff, of smaller diameter, at the bottom.

I mean - KYB thought it thru . They have a small standoff at the bottom. You give up a bit of shock length , but they fit . I have a pair of old red Koni’s that came out of a 70, I’ll pair them up and see how they compare . Those shocks the gland nut and shock were one piece insert . 
Im going to cut down the gland nut a bit more because I don’t see MSA or Koni doing anything more . I’m hoping if I do anything I will give someone else heads up of the possible headache 

[Captain Obvious]

I recently stripped down a pair of strut tubes and I took this pic down the tube. With the right reflected light, you can get a decent look down there. Enough to see the center portion convex outward and the weld bead around the perimeter of the dome:

So any idea how much interference you have? Is it something that you could "workaround" by chamfering the bottom corner of the strut body? Take a little material off the OD at the bottom? Just a little? Maybe? Without creating a weak spot and blowing out the strut on rapid compression?

[Joseph@TheZStore]

2 hours ago, madkaw said:

So disappointed that the modified gland nuts do not get the job done . Even modified I only have 1-1/2 turns on the gland nut . Still showing 6mm of nut . They only machined off 2mm when they should have done 4. 
Called MSA - and it’s basically my problem . It’s my fault that the strut tube has a factory weld bead at the bottom . I could somehow grind the weld down at the bottom of the tube - yeah . So these modified glands are not a guarantee that these will fit your early Z . My car being a 9/71 isn’t that early - but early enough I guess . Now I get to pay a machinist to modify the modified gland nuts that are supposed to fit my year car - woohoo. 
Not much sympathy from MSA , they just sell the shocks .

Sorry if whom you spoke to sounded as you describe. We're all a bit hair-on-fire trying to keep up with short staff, but that isn't an excuse.

1. Please private message me about who you spoke to here.
2. Before I (and/or Lee) respond to the rest, I need to confirm that the image you included is torqued down; and using the diagram I included below, you're saying on that strut the same gap is 6mm? It is hard (for me anyway) to tell from your image.
3. Well over 90% of the 240Z's, including many 70-71's, have been within the 4mm gap tolerance with the original gland nut. So far, of the very few single digit numbers of anomalies we've heard of, the modified KONI gland nut has brought the gap back into their prescribed tolerance of 4mm just fine. Yours would be the first to not be solved.
4. Please do not grind anything until I (and/or Lee) get back to you.

Thank you for your patience.

[madkaw]

Joesph, 

I will PM you about who I spoke to. 
Yes my measurement was 6mm. Looking at the pic you provided is not representative of a properly torqued nut . If it is the same as what I was provided them the diagram is showing a nut with 1 thread engaged. My nut Has only 4.5 threads . To get to 4mm after torquing ,  there would only be about 2 threads at most showing . 

[Joseph@TheZStore]

8 hours ago, madkaw said:

Joesph, 

I will PM you about who I spoke to. 
Yes my measurement was 6mm. Looking at the pic you provided is not representative of a properly torqued nut . If it is the same as what I was provided them the diagram is showing a nut with 1 thread engaged. My nut Has only 4.5 threads . To get to 4mm after torquing ,  there would only be about 2 threads at most showing . 

Definitely not 4mm in my image. Just made that to be clear and confirm to everybody what the measurement was supposed to be measured from and to. I think Lee may be back but I'm sure is trying to unbury himself. I hope to get some confirmation before the end of the day (I'll try anyway).

[Joseph@TheZStore]

Man, Koni has a lot of events! Lee had to go back on the road to another one before he could finish catching up on all requests and so forth. I believe he gets back mid next week, but I gave the impression here that he was back and soon to be jumping in, which was inaccurate. My fault, sorry for the confusion.

[madkaw]

Well I like the way they ride . I’m running about a 1/4 turn out for all these wonderful roads around here . The ride is decent and can be made softer than my non- adjustable KYB’s - but just a smidge . I take a long drive tomorrow so I will really give them some miles . Nice curvy Indiana roads . I’m taking my friend gearhead with me for the ride . Actually I’ll have two passengers l but cranky arse has to stay in the back . 

[Captain Obvious]

So your one passenger is really cranky, and the other is really shifty?

[AK260]

So your one passenger is really cranky, and the other is really shifty?

!!!!!!!!! DAD JOKE ALERT !!!!!!!!

[Captain Obvious]

Man's got to know his limitations. 

[adivin]

I’m about to install the Konis with Eibach springs and didn’t consider if I need bump stops.  Do I need bump stops in the rear?   Also was it determined what that metal bushing is for that comes with the Konis and exactly how it installs?

[jfa.series1]

2 hours ago, adivin said:

I’m about to install the Konis with Eibach springs and didn’t consider if I need bump stops.  Do I need bump stops in the rear?   Also was it determined what that metal bushing is for that comes with the Konis and exactly how it installs?

Yeah, you really should install bump stops with any spring that lowers the car. The bushing installs big end up and is designed to fit right up into the insulator.

Also, have some anti-seize on hand for the threads on the shocks and the gland nuts. Tighten the nut on the shock shaft slowly to avoid any heat buildup.

Edited October 4, 2020 by jfa.series1

[adivin]

2 minutes ago, jfa.series1 said:

Yeah, you really should install bump stops with any spring that lowers the car. The bushing installs big end up and is designed to fit right up into the insulator.

Oh well I guess the suspension isn't going in today.  Any recommendations on bump stops or which ones to avoid? 

Thanks for the info on the metal bushing.  I got it now.

[jfa.series1]

No thoughts on the bump stops - it was 10 years ago when I got mine. Others may have some recommendations.

[Zed Head]

Koni's web site is surprisingly bad, as far as finding technical information.  It doesn't even have a search function. 

Google says that there's something about bump stops on this page but it's buried in a question somewhere, apparently.  Good luck.

https://www.koni.com/en-US/Cars/FAQ/

[red67]

So @madkaw did you get your gland nut issue solved? What springs are you running?

[madkaw]

On 10/15/2020 at 5:30 PM, red67 said:

So @madkaw did you get your gland nut issue solved? What springs are you running?

Not really - by  Koni . I resolved it myself . I did some sanding on the welds on the bottom of the strut cartridge so it would drop in further into the strut and I got a few more threads on the nut . I still didn’t make the minimum mm stat. I felt the gland nut was secured enough for me . This was only the fronts . The backs dropped in with no issues
In conclusion I was told that something was odd about my strut housings , though others had the same issue . MSA said they provided all three series of struts . I bet there was more than three versions . They wanted me to try and grind the inside of the strut tubes at the bottom of the strut ? 
I call it BS , but maybe I don’t know what I’m doing 

Edited October 16, 2020 by madkaw

[adivin]

I just put the Koni's in the rear of my 72 and had no issues.  The Koni gland nut fit fine.

[madkaw]

6 hours ago, adivin said:

I just put the Koni's in the rear of my 72 and had no issues.  The Koni gland nut fit fine.

The rears weren’t the problem for me - it was the fronts 

[Joseph@TheZStore]

On 10/15/2020 at 6:08 PM, madkaw said:

Not really - by  Koni . I resolved it myself . I did some sanding on the welds on the bottom of the strut cartridge so it would drop in further into the strut and I got a few more threads on the nut . I still didn’t make the minimum mm stat. I felt the gland nut was secured enough for me . This was only the fronts . The backs dropped in with no issues
In conclusion I was told that something was odd about my strut housings , though others had the same issue . MSA said they provided all three series of struts . I bet there was more than three versions . They wanted me to try and grind the inside of the strut tubes at the bottom of the strut ? 
I call it BS , but maybe I don’t know what I’m doing 

Lee from KONI has been made aware of these things. He is getting caught up (I'll never complain about my flooded inbox again, since he said his had around a thousand messages, sheesh!) and will be coming in soon for the following:

1. He has a simple something-or-other for those who for some reason need a longer adjuster knob. As far as we know, for the many hundreds that have sold so far, only two Z-Cars have had the issue of not being able to reach with the knob for some reason. We honestly don't know why at this time, but hope to research it and find out. Lee was gathering the information he had on his fix, and will share that soon. If anybody else has this issue, please let us know at (800)633-6331 or info@motorsportauto.com.

2. Lee and his engineers are looking at Madkaw's situation. Since that is miles above my pay grade, I'll leave that to Lee and his engineers, and look forward to what they have to say.

He may have some other things to address, but those are the highlights.

As far as what you said Madkaw, yes, we sent them O.E. 240Z, 280Z, and 280ZX strut housings, just to confirm everything. They already had the proper sizing from all the years they did the Reds, and this was just to confirm, which they did.

As far as grinding the inside of the strut tubes, that was a misunderstanding on us. We should have been more clear that we've heard of many struts (and have some here in the building) where there is a hardened gunk buildup at the bottom from years of oil and such. That is often needed to be cleaned out, often by "grinding" with something to break off the gunk. However, grinding of the metal at the bottom of the inside is not something anybody should do and not what we intended to convey. Again, our apologies that we "muddied" that up, pun intended.

Thank you for your patience on this Madkaw.

[red67]

Joseph, thank you for the explanation. Since I have an 8/71 car(Madkaw 9/71), I think I’ll wait to hear Lee’s remedies, before pulling the trigger,  that is unless there is a “Black Friday” sale planned! 

[adivin]

I have a 12/71 build date.  I will let you know how the front's fit.

 

aj