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Joseph@TheZStore

KONI Sports for Classic Z's

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The white disc has been discussed before.  It's a hot Koni topic all over the internet.  Plug "koni insert white disc" in to your favorite search engine. Apparently it keeps the bump stop off the top of the strut.  It's a bump stop landing pad.  

 

 

 Good advice!

 

Now why didn’t I think to do that (google it) when I was assembling them!? ;)

 

This is the best explanation I read:

 

“This little white plastic doodad is often overlooked, but its importance can't be overstated. If your strut bottoms out, the impact can actually seal the bump stop against the strut housing. When the suspension decompresses, that seal is broken, and it can actually create enough suction to break the seal on the strut itself. This piece of plastic creates an air gap between the bump stop and the strut, preventing this weird disaster from occurring"

 

Edit: thinking about this, the gland nut removal holes will likely perform a similar job on mine. What I’ve read so far says that the early seals were theorised to have this issue so they left the discs in as a cheap insurance policy.

 

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51 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

The white disc has been discussed before.  It's a hot Koni topic all over the internet.  Plug "koni insert white disc" in to your favorite search engine.

Apparently it keeps the bump stop off the top of the strut.  It's a bump stop landing pad.

 

I was referring to the steel bushing . My KYB’s didn’t have this . I don’t see it in the instructions 

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3 minutes ago, madkaw said:

I was referring to the steel bushing . My KYB’s didn’t have this . I don’t see it in the instructions 

The white disc was mentioned by AK260.

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22 minutes ago, AK260 said:

Edit: thinking about this, the gland nut removal holes will likely perform a similar job on mine. What I’ve read so far says that the early seals were theorised to have this issue so they left the discs in as a cheap insurance policy.

It might just keep sharp edges, and dirt and grime from wearing the bump stop out.  It distributes the force more evenly than the ragged edges and holes of the gland nut.

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It might just keep sharp edges, and dirt and grime from wearing the bump stop out.  It distributes the force more evenly than the ragged edges and holes of the gland nut.

Surely if the bump stops are being hit that often to take damage from the gland nut then the suspension setup needs rethinking! In all my crazy Z driving over 8 years I have only ever hit the stops twice while being very silly over a bump back bridge at speed.

 

BTW the Koni gland nut is pretty smooth with no sharp edges - not a great photo here as I was focused on the spring markings but you can see what I am talking about.

 

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Also I used motorbike dust covers on mine which provide a lovely tight fit. So no dust / grim getting in

 

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Back to the point[mention=6833]madkaw[/mention] raised, that steel spacer is missing off the pretty generic instructions from what I could tell.

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9 hours ago, AK260 said:

I quite like the idea of making something that looks properly machined.

Agreed. I enjoy making little stuff like that that I get to use.

You might not have the right size tubing to use, but you've got a lathe. Just drill out the end of some solid stock and oval-ize it. With a few crude calculations, I think you could get close on the first try and then hit it on the second or third. If you've got tubing close to the right size but a little small, you could bore it out.

And then to make it looks "proper", glue on an old screwdriver handle* on the other end. Or turn a nice wood handle on the lathe and use that. You'll be the envy of all the other Koni-ites.    :love:

 

* You know the one... The one that's all rounded off and is pretty much useless as a screwdriver. Heat up the metal until it melts the handle a little and then yank it out.  Haha!!

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7 hours ago, madkaw said:

Freaking IKEA instructions - give me a break .

Good to know that I'm not alone. I was under the impression that I was the only one who found it impossible to decipher instructions like that.

I wonder if people in other countries have the same problem. I think those icon based instructions were supposed to make them easier to understand in all languages. I think they've done just the opposite.

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16 hours ago, madkaw said:

Freaking IKEA instructions - give me a break . 
what about the spacer ? I can’t find it in the instructions . 

2EE03A84-EB46-43C7-8FBA-3658F2FD372C.jpeg

A012C89B-1592-468C-8C18-ED63A82CE042.jpeg

Steel bushing guys - on top of strut piston ! Is that on correctly ? What is it’s purpose? My KYB’s do not have this . Anyone ?

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When I did mine I found that the way up you have it works best. It basically locks the top of the plunger to the bottom of the strut cap thing with the 3 studs coming out of it.

 

You can even put it on upside down and it will work, but you can’t install your shocks without it as far as I could see. Well you could but the lip on the small part of the shaft isn’t large enough to be strong enough.

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

My old tockicos didn’t have it but the shaft was uniform and fat all the way to the top, the Konis aren’t without that spacer.

 

My guess is that the plunger shaft is a generic design used for other models and they provide the spacer to fit the Z.

 

Here’s the comparison of tockico v Koni

 

 

fe3db0a2541a1c2e8ba1ed1a9e19d46c.plistb504e2bac714e73f64364fa3f6f47c73.png

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Always good to do the job the once ;)

 

BTW as I’m sure you know, that bump stop will sit nicely on the spacer of you push it all the way up.

 

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Looks like I’m in the same boat with the fronts too tall for the gland nuts - 9/71

Almost didn’t get one out too! 
Well I didn’t have much hope for Zcon - but all hope is gone . Not enough time in the day 

image.jpg

A6470E9A-8435-4169-BC70-FB955016DF83.jpeg

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I had one once that I couldn't get out. Even chained between two trees with a come a long

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MSA is sending me different gland nuts - probably as in the previous post - chamfered so they will fit . 

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Is the bottom of the insert you removed narrower than the bottom of the Koni?  To allow it to drop down lower in the tube, past the shoulder at the bottom of the hole.

Just curious about why the Konis only seem to have this problem.  

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Here is a Tokico HP with the replacement KONI - noticeably different bottom configuration, looks somewhat similar to the one in madkaw's second pic. The chipped paint on the KONI is from interference with the strut bottom.

KONI-03.jpg

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1 hour ago, Zed Head said:

Is the bottom of the insert you removed narrower than the bottom of the Koni?  To allow it to drop down lower in the tube, past the shoulder at the bottom of the hole.

Just curious about why the Konis only seem to have this problem.  

KYB’s . It looks like a hefty weld bead on the bottom of the strut assembly . The KONI is wider at the bottom of the cartridge, and I believe the cartridge is hitting the weld bead . KYB’s also have that small pedestal on the bottom of its  . The cartridge should have been shorter . The last red Koni’s I took out of my 70 had the gland nut  integral with the cartridge . 

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Sorry folks, you may have seen the note we put up in our store, this Covid thing has forced a couple more guys to step down to take care of family, including James temporarily, and we were already short on warm bodies, so we've been a bit overwhelmed, but still standing and swinging. We have a couple of new guys starting soon, both of them Z owners, so if we've missed any of your emails or messages know we're working hard to get caught up.

I was able to check in with Lee between his recent business trips. He is traveling (again), and having log-in issues, but I mentioned the Stainless issue to him and he said that the hardware is chromed steel, not stainless. Now that discussion is above my pay grade, lol, so I'll let Lee pick up any further questions when he gets back.

It has already been answered previously, but that disc is completely there just to avoid possible air damage to the seal, by giving paths for the air to move freely if the bump stop comes all the way down. I guess they used to see it happen way back and thus came up with the disc as a simple yet fully effective solution.

One of the projects that has suffered with the current situations is making a picture-gram of how the pieces go together on the strut just to add clarity. The sleeve and the bump stop go together like this image I took. I believe this was also described early on in this thread, but I never made it to making that diagram/image. Sorry about that. I'll make a real one soon with all the pieces.

sleeve-bumpstop.jpg

Then instructions are also something Lee is looking into, but those wheels turn pretty slow, especially with our current world. Somebody said it was done like that to make it work for all languages, which is exactly correct.

We hate to see that anybody had any trouble with their struts, but it is great to hear from so many who love the performance.

Ok, it's nearing 10:30 pm here in SoCal, back to answering more emails!
 

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[mention] Joseph@TheZStore [/mention] thanks for coming back on this and great to be speaking with a firm that properly listen to their clientele!

 

The galling is definitely an issue that they need to consider seriously, as undoubtedly others will also be experiencing this at some point. The teething issues with instructions etc will be sorted soon enough and as you say, an exploded diagram of sorts will be great.

 

Thank you also for validating the bump stop / spacer bushing orientation. Would be interesting to see how others find it - when I experimented with that orientation, I found that the bump stop would be crushed against the spring top hat when the whole thing is torqued up and I wasn’t sure if that would reduce it’s lifespan.

 

I’m sorry to hear you have men / women down at the moment. Having parents and friends who had COVID, I know it’s quite unpleasant but I’m sure I speak for us all when I say that we wish them a speedy recovery. Well done for keeping things going.

 

The Zstore has always been a pleasure to deal with for me, especially confirmed when you replaced my damaged in transit Konis without a single word of quibble and gave me store credits for the additional taxes the UK government charged. Keep up the great work and hang in there, COVID will pass.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Joseph@TheZStore said:

Sorry folks, you may have seen the note we put up in our store, this Covid thing has forced a couple more guys to step down to take care of family, including James temporarily, and we were already short on warm bodies, so we've been a bit overwhelmed, but still standing and swinging. We have a couple of new guys starting soon, both of them Z owners, so if we've missed any of your emails or messages know we're working hard to get caught up.

I was able to check in with Lee between his recent business trips. He is traveling (again), and having log-in issues, but I mentioned the Stainless issue to him and he said that the hardware is chromed steel, not stainless. Now that discussion is above my pay grade, lol, so I'll let Lee pick up any further questions when he gets back.

It has already been answered previously, but that disc is completely there just to avoid possible air damage to the seal, by giving paths for the air to move freely if the bump stop comes all the way down. I guess they used to see it happen way back and thus came up with the disc as a simple yet fully effective solution.

One of the projects that has suffered with the current situations is making a picture-gram of how the pieces go together on the strut just to add clarity. The sleeve and the bump stop go together like this image I took. I believe this was also described early on in this thread, but I never made it to making that diagram/image. Sorry about that. I'll make a real one soon with all the pieces.

sleeve-bumpstop.jpg

Then instructions are also something Lee is looking into, but those wheels turn pretty slow, especially with our current world. Somebody said it was done like that to make it work for all languages, which is exactly correct.

We hate to see that anybody had any trouble with their struts, but it is great to hear from so many who love the performance.

Ok, it's nearing 10:30 pm here in SoCal, back to answering more emails!
 

The steel bushing orientation was not discussed earlier in this thread , that’s why I posted the question . AK260 showed what he did for orientation , which seemed to make sense , but now you show the bushing flipped the other way . It would seem to me that AK260 has it correct to extend travel of the bump stop . It would be nice to get some clarity from KONI . 

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So disappointed that the modified gland nuts do not get the job done . Even modified I only have 1-1/2 turns on the gland nut . Still showing 6mm of nut . They only machined off 2mm when they should have done 4. 
Called MSA - and it’s basically my problem . It’s my fault that the strut tube has a factory weld bead at the bottom . I could somehow grind the weld down at the bottom of the tube - yeah . So these modified glands are not a guarantee that these will fit your early Z . My car being a 9/71 isn’t that early - but early enough I guess . Now I get to pay a machinist to modify the modified gland nuts that are supposed to fit my year car - woohoo. 
Not much sympathy from MSA , they just sell the shocks .

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228D26E6-2D57-448D-A03B-1F9FC8E7467D.jpeg

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When I swapped my original oil for inserts I messed around with trying to make the aluminum Nissan gland nuts work.  Mainly because they looked cool and I wasn't clear at the time about how the gland nut worked.  I bought some thick o-rings to place inside the Nissan gland nut to center the shock and I think that it would have worked, after clamping the nut down.  But then I figured that the steel KYB nut was the better choice.

Point - maybe you can make the Nissan nut work buy adding material, a spacer/centering ring, instead of removing material from the Koni nut.

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22 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

When I swapped my original oil for inserts I messed around with trying to make the aluminum Nissan gland nuts work.  Mainly because they looked cool and I wasn't clear at the time about how the gland nut worked.  I bought some thick o-rings to place inside the Nissan gland nut to center the shock and I think that it would have worked, after clamping the nut down.  But then I figured that the steel KYB nut was the better choice.

Point - maybe you can make the Nissan nut work buy adding material, a spacer/centering ring, instead of removing material from the Koni nut.

The KONI nut is a thick walled nut . Even after increasing the ID , it still has close to 1/8” wall thickness . It just needed to be cut deeper and it would have been fine . Better yet - the KONIs should have been made -like most shocks for this  car- with a smaller ID at the bottom to keep off the weld bead at the bottom  

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I was just offering another way to get the Konis to work.  They already told you that you're on your own.  What can you do?

So, for the record, this is for the 9/71 240Z in your sig?  Maybe the 240Z's just had a lot of variation in parts.  Nobody would have paid much attention to the bottom inside of the tube since it was only meant to hold oil.  Never meant to seat a shock/insert.

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