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KONI Sports for Classic Z's


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It's a UK car. I did think that broadly the transitions for the 260 were the same in US and UK, but I could easily be wrong on that.

Edited by jonbill
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There are a lot of gland nut sizes out there.  Sounds like they just put the wrong ones in the package.

The Motorsport Auto guys do much much better with phone calls.

image.png

 

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1 hour ago, jonbill said:

It's a UK car. I did think that broadly the transitions for the 260 were the same in US and UK, but I could easily be wrong on that.

This thread describes some of the differences: https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/62919-260z-suspension-vs-240z-suspension/

Measure your rear strut tube diameter with a caliper. I can measure the ones on my 260Z for comparison.

Edited by SteveJ
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Hello Jonbill.  Sorry that you have had an issue but I was able to dig into some specs to sort it out.

If your car needs the M48 x 1.5 gland nut, then you have early ('70-'74.5) strut housings and thus need the 8641 1031Sport with the proper gland nut and a 42 mm OD insert diameter and 394 mm insert length.  Based on the late 1974 build date, you bought the 8641 1033Sport which use a M52 x 1.5 gland nut, have a 43.5 mm (1.5 mm larger) OD insert diameter and a 384 mm (note that it is 10 mm shorter) insert length.  Whether the cars is the UK were made with a later changeover date or maybe sometime in its life someone put earlier strut housings on your car, you have early struts and thus need the early strut inserts.  Remember that you said it was a tight fit but the insert went into the housing, the later car's slightly larger OD insert body fit but barely? If you'd had the M48 gland nut, upon installing it you would have found that the later, shorter insert was too short to engage properly.  Although you could stack some washers on the bottom of the tube to spacer it up to engage, there is also a difference in the reound damping force (a bit more on the later car) and compression damping forces (a bit less on the later car) that would also made a functional difference as well.  The top mounting pin dimensions are the same between the two models but the later car's inserts actually extend about 5 mm longer and compresses 10 mm shorter than the earlier cars too.

The rear struts are quite a bit different in length between the early cars and later cars but they have the same M48 and M52 differnces that you should check on your car as well.

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Thanks Lee, that sounds conclusive. My old KYB struts are about 42mm OD.  I have some other corroboration that my build date is earlier than I thought. 

It's interesting what you say about the insert lengths - the 1033 are the same length as my old KYBs, and actually the 1033's ended up sitting a coupe off mm higher than the KYBs. Maybe they're not bottomed out because they're tight. I'll have to check the length of my tube and check there's not a spacer at the bottom - as it stands, I don't think there's room for a 10mm longer insert!

 

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According to the drawings I am looking at that has most but not all of the measurements, the 8641 1033 Sport does step down from 43.5 mm OD to 42 mm OD a short distance from the bottom so there is an insternal restiction near the bottom.  The 8641 1033 Sport is a straight 42 mm OD all the way down.  The 1033 may have hung up on that diameter restriction before it reached all the way to the bottom and thus the length difference is not apparent when inside.  All the more reason for you to get the 1031s that are needed for the smaller diameter early struts.  It would be interesting to see if you car has the smaller diameter rear struts as well if you think they are original to the car.

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You might be able to make your KYB nuts work.  The nut serves two purposes - centering the top of the shock, and clamping it tightly in to the tube.  Some of the manufacturers just ship a sized metal ring, to fit the application, along with a common nut.  Tokico did theirs that way.

 

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Jonbill, another helpful confirmation would be to see if you can get the numbers off of the strut housings, and we'll check from that angle.

40 minutes ago, jonbill said:

I have some other corroboration that my build date is earlier than I thought. 

What else was telling you that the build date might be earlier?

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Jonbill, another helpful confirmation would be to see if you can get the numbers off of the strut housings, and we'll check from that angle.
What else was telling you that the build date might be earlier?
I'll see what I can find.@ak260 does dating service for the UK club and that was his assessment of my VIN.
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The insulator on the top of the back strut would be a clue.  The big body's used a taller one.  And the strut towers are taller inside the car for the later style.   People use the 240Z insulators on the back of 280Z's to lower them,  they're shorter.

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/classic20n01a

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The insulator on the top of the back strut would be a clue.  The big body's used a taller one.  And the strut towers are taller inside the car for the later style.   People use the 240Z insulators on the back of 280Z's to lower them,  they're shorter.
https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/CTGY/classic20n01a
My strut insulators are the same front and back. So early car?
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6 minutes ago, jonbill said:

My strut insulators are the same front and back. So early car?

Seems that way.  Otherwise the back of your car would be much lower than the front.  Assuming that you have factory springs.

https://www.thezstore.com/page/TZS/PROD/classic20n01a/23-4370

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I'm not sure but I think that the US market got the first body change cars, with the reinforcements.  The taller strut towers would give leverage to make a stronger strut mount.  The cars got heavier and stronger to comply with US safety regulations, I think.  The big bumper years were part of that, along with the 5 mph damage limit.  Not an expert on European market cars.  I'm not sure the early/late thing applies to European market 260Z's even.  Hard to tell because they didn't get the big bumpers, did they?  You have the small attractive bumpers, not the big solid ones?

Don't know.  But it looks like you need "early' gland nuts.

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I'm not sure but I think that the US market got the first body change cars, with the reinforcements.  The taller strut towers would give leverage to make a stronger strut mount.  The cars got heavier and stronger to comply with US safety regulations, I think.  The big bumper years were part of that, along with the 5 mph damage limit.  Not an expert on European market cars.  I'm not sure the early/late thing applies to European market 260Z's even.  Hard to tell because they didn't get the big bumpers, did they?  You have the small attractive bumpers, not the big solid ones?

Don't know.  But it looks like you need "early' gland nuts.

 

 

The early/late thing definitely applies to us too. While we didn’t get the “impressive” bumpers or the BHP reducing emissions stuff, the earlier “inferior” 260Zs (joke flag flying high and proud before I get shot) have many commonalities with the 240Zs - e.g. the hub offsets are the same, the floor supports / chassis rails don’t go all the way back, inferior door cards etc etc. My ‘77 “Late” 260Z is much closer to your 280Zs (which we never got) but without fuel injection. All our S30s got rear anti-roll bars out of the factory.

 

In the UK we got the 2 seater until ‘75 then all only 2+2 until 77/78 when the 2 seater reappeared with the stronger chassis etc for just two years.

 

Alan can tell you a huge lot more but this is based on what I’ve seen in the flesh / photos between the models here.

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I've been to measure, and my strut tube really is about 380mm deep, no way can it accommodate a 394mm insert, even at 42mm diameter. 

I couldn't find a part number on the tube - the underseal is thick :rolleyes: anyone know where on the tube the part number is?

The 8641 1033 is about maybe 2mm taller than the KYB strut, see the pic.  The KYB is a 361002 and is listed as for a 240z, maybe it has to have a spacer in a 240z. (I installed them, but it was a long time ago and can't remember!)

Even when fully bottomed in the strut, the 1033 is going to be a couple of mm proud. I may be able to modify the KYB gland nut to fit with it, maybe not. 

@KONI Lee is there a Koni distributor in EU that I might be able to buy the 48mm gland nuts from? or can you see in your parts catalogue a 42mm insert that's a bit shorter than 384mm? 

DSC_0529.JPG

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The KONI distributor in the UK is RFT in Mytchett, Surrey.  Ask for Trevor and tell him that Lee with KONI North America sent you. Although he cannot get the Datsun Z specific inserts, he can probably get the M48 x 1.5 using the part number 73.25.01.003.1 from Holland.

Performance Parts RFT

Email: tleigh@rftgroup.co.uk

Tel: 01252 494016

Unit One Mytchett Business Centre

57E Mytchett Road

Mytchett, Surrey, GU16 6EG

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2 hours ago, jonbill said:

Even when fully bottomed in the strut, the 1033 is going to be a couple of mm proud. I may be able to modify the KYB gland nut to fit with it, maybe not.

The gland nut does not seat on the tube, it seats on the top of the shock/insert.  So, when properly tightened there will be threads exposed on the gland nut.  Having the top of the shock/insert/cartridge stick out of the strut tube might not matter.

I think that the strut part number is stamped in to the bottom of the tube, or maybe on the casting that it is pressed in to.  Probably covered in rust and crud.  Not distinct.

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The gland nut does not seat on the tube, it seats on the top of the shock/insert.  So, when properly tightened there will be threads exposed on the gland nut.  Having the top of the shock/insert/cartridge stick out of the strut tube might not matter.
I think that the strut part number is stamped in to the bottom of the tube, or maybe on the casting that it is pressed in to.  Probably covered in rust and crud.  Not distinct.
Thanks, I'll have another look. I did find a casting number on the hub, but didn't think that was it.
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The KONI distributor in the UK is RFT in Mytchett, Surrey.  Ask for Trevor and tell him that Lee with KONI North America sent you. Although he cannot get the Datsun Z specific inserts, he can probably get the M48 x 1.5 using the part number 73.25.01.003.1 from Holland.
Performance Parts RFT
Email: tleigh@rftgroup.co.uk
Tel: 01252 494016
Unit One Mytchett Business Centre
57E Mytchett Road
Mytchett, Surrey, GU16 6EG
Thanks, Trevor has ordered them for me. Very quick and helpful. :thumbs:
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  • 3 months later...
On 3/17/2020 at 1:08 PM, KONI Lee said:

If your car needs the M48 x 1.5 gland nut, then you have early ('70-'74.5) strut housings and thus need the 8641 1031Sport with the proper gland nut and a 42 mm OD insert diameter and 394 mm insert length. 

Thanks for the great clarity @KONI Lee. I got the Koni 8641 1031Sport yellow strut cartridges for my 240z (December 1970 production date). Installing the front passenger side now. Diameter is fine but they seem to sit a tad higher than the cartridges they are replacing (it's like there's an extra little shoulder) and I'm not able to get the strut gland nut to catch the threads inside the strut cartridge. Does anyone know if there is a trick I'm missing? Or, are different types of gland nuts that might account for this? I ask because the driver's side was also challenging but I did get the gland nut threaded on. However the glad nut seems like a slightly different design on the outside (it didn't occur to me to check the design of the the inside).

Thanks for any advice.

Strut-Cartridge-Length.jpg

Strut-Gland-Nut.jpg

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There are definitely different gland nuts that can affect thread engagement.  Some strut inserts/shocks come with a spacer that fits under the gland nut to get a proper fit.  Most of them come with their own gland nut that centers the top of the shock too, as it provides proper clamping force.  The gland nut fits like a cap over the top of the strut.  It is essentially an extension of the tube when it's all put together.  Think of it that way and you can probably make things work.

Don't forget to check the bottom of the strut tube also.  Crud/rust can build up in the bottom.  It wasn't really designed for the replaceable inserts.  They just happened to work well.

Edited by Zed Head
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