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SteveJ

Patton Machine Fuel Injection

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8 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

Nice. It's already running well enough to get to Nashville? You've got a year to finish the tune!!   LOL 

Hmm, I wonder if I'll have enough time...

I'm not sure whether or not I used anti-seize on the plug in the O2 sensor bung. It will take a while to get it out. Just in case, new bungs have been ordered.

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19 minutes ago, ryanotown22 said:

Toolbox was saved before catastrophe
 

It wouldn't be the first time that box was dumped, and it holds my solderless lugs, too. Instant game of 52 card pick up.

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So when I got home this evening, the first thing I did after exchanging pleasantries with SWMBO was open up my Amazon boxes. I found the spray can of Kroil, and went out to the garage to spray the plug on the O2 sensor bung. I changed into car working clothes (Very redneck chic, I might add.) and went back into the garage. I sprayed the plug again, and then I pulled the car out of the garage (under its own power) and got it up on ramps. I looked at the access to the plug on the O2 sensor bung. It was too tight for the impact gun. The breaker bar would have to work.

I got the socket on the plug, but I realized that I just couldn't get the right leverage. So what's the solution? Of course, it's a 2.5 lb hammer. I forcefully tapped on the breaker bar, and I finally saw it turn! I re-positioned the breaker bar and got another 1/8th of a turn or so. After a couple of more small movements, I decided that I didn't want to be using the breaker bar until midnight. I paused and sprayed some more Kroil on the plug. Then I fetched the long handle ratchet and put it to work...only it has a shorter handle, so I lacked leverage. So what's the solution? Of course, it's a 2.5 lb hammer. I tapped the handle of the ratchet, and it started moving the plug. I kept getting the ratchet to turn. Either the head of the plug was going to break off, or the plug was coming out. I did a quick check to verify that the plug was coming out, and soon it was done.

I coated the threads of the O2 sensor with anti-sieze and installed it. I connected the O2 sensor and got the car running. It runs a LOT better with the O2 sensor installed. I reattached the choke cables since I found I still need them when the car is cold. I have the throttle bodies adjusted, though the idle is high. On the other hand, the idle was high with the carburetors, too.

Now I need to button things up and pick up a $4!+load of tools scattered about in my garage. Then I can do a test drive.

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Ahhh, the BFH to the rescue once more.  One of my favorite tools.  Had a mechanic tell me once about how to remove a stubborn bolt that I was beating on and would not budge.  He said " Get a bigger hammer".  It worked.

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23 minutes ago, gwri8 said:

Ahhh, the BFH to the rescue once more.  One of my favorite tools.  Had a mechanic tell me once about how to remove a stubborn bolt that I was beating on and would not budge.  He said " Get a bigger hammer".  It worked.

It doesn't matter how big and strong you are if you don't have a way to get leverage. Fortunately I know 50 ways to love my lever.

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Ok, so silly question, but what exactly  are you attaching the choke cables to? Wasn't the needle removed along with the dome and piston?

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The cables are going to the same place they went to on the SUs. They still move the butterflies. I don't know enough about how the GM system works in actual GM cars to know how the throttle body/fuel injection accounted for cold start conditions.

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Well, I took it for the first test drive. It ran, but it did not run well. At times it seemed like it was fuel starved. I'm going to re-orient the fuel pump to see if that helps some. 

The plugs were fouled, so I replaced them.

The car does not like to idle. I opted to add an Idle Air Control Valve in case I added AC later. I just ordered all of the parts I believe I need to install the IAC valve.

I let Rick Patton know the results. I haven't tried to datalog anything, yet. That might happen tomorrow depending upon how well the fuel pump repositioning goes.

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14 hours ago, SteveJ said:

Well, I took it for the first test drive. It ran, but it did not run well. At times it seemed like it was fuel starved. I'm going to re-orient the fuel pump to see if that helps some. 

The plugs were fouled, so I replaced them.

The car does not like to idle. I opted to add an Idle Air Control Valve in case I added AC later. I just ordered all of the parts I believe I need to install the IAC valve.

I let Rick Patton know the results. I haven't tried to datalog anything, yet. That might happen tomorrow depending upon how well the fuel pump repositioning goes.

Is this a self learning system or do you need to program it? If it's not self learning then I wouldn't mess with the fuel pump unless I was sure it's starving for fuel

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It's a late 80's/early 90's GM EFI system, so I would any self learning is limited. I don't recall anything about self learning on the website, either. The fact that I could back off slightly (under load) and get the car to respond leads me to believe there is some kind of lack of fuel for a brief period...that and the bucking.

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I have done some tuning on those years of GM vehicles. They have the ability to adjust the fuel base on the values in the fuel map and O2 input but it's limited. You will need to data log and adjust from there. Be careful and dont spool it up until you get the fueling closer.

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I also don't like how the fuel lines ended up at the TBI adapters. 

TBI adapters.jpg

Look at the bend in the line at the front throttle body. (I almost typed "carb".) Rick confirmed the fittings are 1/8 NPT, so I ordered 1/8 NPT to 6AN 90 degree elbows. Then I'll put another 90 on to point to the fuel rail. Hell, I have plenty of braided hose, still.

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I got 6AN to 1/8 NPT fittings to replace the barb fittings on the TBI adapters. I could not put the back throttle body fitting at the angle I wanted because it was hitting on the base of the adapter before it was to the point I wanted, so I compromised. It looks a little kludged, but it doesn't leak. (If it looks stupid but it works, it's not stupid.)

Rerouted fuel lines.jpg

I also purchased a Walbro GSL395 fuel pump. This fuel pump is rated up to 20 PSI and is targeted for GM TBI systems. In other words, it's a good application. In addition, it takes male 10mmx1 fittings, so I got it with 6AN to 10mm fittings. After that I put 90 degree elbows on the inlet and outlet and 5/16 to 6AN fittings on the elbows to go to the fuel lines. I was able to orient the pump so the inlet is on the bottom, like it should be. I got the fuel pressure set, and I got a smooth idle, though it is at 1200 RPM. Now I have to test. That might have to wait until Tuesday, though.

 

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Well, I tested the car this morning. It doesn't like starting smoothly, but once it got going, it ran nicely...for a while. I was going up a hill, and it started losing power, like fuel starvation. I decided to add fuel, almost 7 gallons. It drove well on flat roads (little elevation change), but on a rise a few miles later, I felt the loss of power again. The road leveled out, and I made a right turn. Again, under load, it didn't have enough fuel.

I'm going to change the fuel filter and increase the pressure a little on the fuel rail. I have also started researching surge tanks just in case. 

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I plan on using the Edelbrock surge tank, pump and pressure regulator all in one for my system.

https://www.edelbrock.com/adjustable-universal-efi-sump-fuel-tank-assembly-67gph-35-90-psi-36032.html

Also, is your fuel tank for sure clean?  I've been having issues with cutting out lately and I think it's sediment in my fuel tank that clogs the screen on the pickup.  I'm planning on dropping the tank and having it repaired this fall.

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It wasn't having issues before the conversion. I drained the tank completely a couple of years ago for the bumper conversion, and I didn't notice much in the way of debris in the gas I drained out. Of course, when I look at the filter carefully post change, my opinion of the condition of the tank could change.

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Well, I tested the car this morning. It doesn't like starting smoothly, but once it got going, it ran nicely...for a while. I was going up a hill, and it started losing power, like fuel starvation. I decided to add fuel, almost 7 gallons. It drove well on flat roads (little elevation change), but on a rise a few miles later, I felt the loss of power again. The road leveled out, and I made a right turn. Again, under load, it didn't have enough fuel.
I'm going to change the fuel filter and increase the pressure a little on the fuel rail. I have also started researching surge tanks just in case. 
Sounds like a simple case of the map not supplying enough fuel as you start to put it under load.
Increasing fuel pressure will make it richer everywhere - doesn't it offer more precise tuning?

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1 hour ago, jonbill said:

Sounds like a simple case of the map not supplying enough fuel as you start to put it under load.
Increasing fuel pressure will make it richer everywhere - doesn't it offer more precise tuning?

Thanks for the input. It does have the ability to datalog. I haven't done that, yet. I still need to change the fuel filter. I can't remember if I changed it when I did the bumper swap. If I didn't, it's been on there a while. Then I can do the datalogging. After that, I can send the info off to Affordable Fuel Injection for a different map.

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Thanks for the input. It does have the ability to datalog. I haven't done that, yet. I still need to change the fuel filter. I can't remember if I changed it when I did the bumper swap. If I didn't, it's been on there a while. Then I can do the datalogging. After that, I can send the info off to Affordable Fuel Injection for a different map.
That makes sense.

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