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kats

VINTAGE Z auction in JAPAN

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17 hours ago, HS30-H said:

Don't forget this one (my favourite....)

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Thanks Alan, this car is HLS30-31541. Our club member's car.

Kats

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I remember that safari gold car in Nostalgic Hero. He had modified it in some ways yet still maintaining a very "original" vibe.  The twin pipe exhaust is what I loved the most. How was the auction Kats?  

 

That red car with the Monte bumper and the Works rally wheels is divine.

 

Ben

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Ben, yes the Safari gold car has some modifications such a 5 speed transmission, and a dual exhaust system etc. The owner was not happy about the finish of the car when he saw it in Japan, then he sent the car to a restoration shop to have fully restoration all over again .

The auction date is  Friday 12th , so it is coming soon.

Kats

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It has started  , I want the Pantera ! If it were cheap...

10 cars to go before the 240Zs.

Kats

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Too bad , I could not see 240Zs showing up, I had to leave the stadium to go home.

What are the final bids ?

Kats

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i believe we may be about to witness the effects of the main core (think bell curve) of the 'baby boomer' retirement phenomenon.  This will unleash into the classic car market thousands of aging-but-wealthy people with time and a lot of money on their hands and a deep pool of nostalgia that they want to have serviced.  There aren't enough Ferraris, Cobras, Maseratis and E-Types to go around, and too many of the other obvious choices are too uncomfortable or unreliable to suit a seventy-year-old trying to relive his or her youth in style, safety and comfort.  The days of the $25K 240Z may be coming to and end soon.  Only the Porsche 911 and the Alfa GTV tick the same boxes.

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Where can we get that magic dust?  I'm going out to the garage now with my leaf blower.

  • Haha 3

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For how much did the Nissan R90C sell?  I would love to have such a wonderful ride!

Edited by 26th-Z
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 Don't remember who coined the phrase 401Z retirement account but it's beginning to look like it could be true.

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On 1/7/2018 at 7:05 AM, kats said:

Ben, yes the Safari gold car has some modifications such a 5 speed transmission, and a dual exhaust system etc. The owner was not happy about the finish of the car when he saw it in Japan, then he sent the car to a restoration shop to have fully restoration all over again .

The auction date is  Friday 12th , so it is coming soon.

Kats

So where, exactly, do these 240Z's fit in to the 240Z spectrum?  People are excited but they look fairly unique, with lots of restoration funding behind them.  Two factory-sponsored restorations if I read the earlier posts right, and one with a second "full" restoration.

And is that $100,000 for both or each?  

Anybody notice that one of them is a 1996 model?  Is that when the factory resto program was?

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43 minutes ago, Zed Head said:

So where, exactly, do these 240Z's fit in to the 240Z spectrum?  People are excited but they look fairly unique, with lots of restoration funding behind them.  Two factory-sponsored restorations if I read the earlier posts right, and one with a second "full" restoration.

And is that $100,000 for both or each?  

Anybody notice that one of them is a 1996 model?  Is that when the factory resto program was?

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I am sure that it is 100K each. Yes, the 1996 refers to the restored cars commissioned by Nissan for the 1996 re-introduction. I think that they were 70 and 71 models for the most part. I believe that the original plan was for 100 cars, but somewhere in the neighborhood of just over 40 were completed. I am sure that it this information is not correct someone here will give the correct numbers. 

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Seems odd that they would go for exactly the same nice round big number.  They have different histories.  One has a 5 speed so is not "correct" and has had the factory-sponsored restoration monkeyed with.  It's a resto-restomod.

It's a neat story but just seems a little weird, unless somebody with so much money it barely matters just cast a blow-everybody-out-of-the-water bid.

The details will be interesting if they come out.

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Thank you , everyone , I really appreciated all the inputs.

I checked some other sources, the Safari gold is sold 12 000 000 JPY , and the Silver is sold 9 000 000 JPY.

We are talking about this auction with my friends, we think right price for these two cars will be 2 000 000 to 3 000 000 JPY even the Vintage Z , for that condition. In Japan , LHD S30 has still been undervalued . And this bad condition,  we are just surprised.

Kats

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The Vintage Z program was not a 'factory' sponsored arrangement if you consider the 'factory' to be Nissan Motor Corporation - Japan.  It was a component of the Nissan USA "Dream Garage" advertising campaign in 1996 - 1997 and the cars were restored HLS30 export models from four different 'sub-contractors' based in Southern California.  Thirty-seven cars were completed and delivered, however there were several cars that did not make it to completion when the program was ended.

The restorations could be best described as 're-builds' as the common notion of restoration correctness was not considered.  New parts and components were drawn from existing parts stock and used on the cars regardless of the differentiation we discuss regularly on this site.  Engines and transmissions were not installed in accordance with the original build and some components, like interior vinyl, were remanufactured.  Two cars that I know of were custom restored to specification for Morey Sage of Universal Nissan and Keith Crane of AutoWeek.  None-the-less, there are only 37 of them (38 if you consider Pete Evanow's count, 40 if you consider my count).  Carl Beck has an accounting for the cars on his website.  Not all of the cars have been "found".

As Alan points out, several cars were "restored" by facilities outside the U.S. at approximately the same time, however they were not part of the Nissan USA program.

I'm not surprised with the auction results.  I have seen the price for unique, "provenance' examples soar in the last few years.  I expect the trend to continue.

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So, $100,000 and $75,000, for Nissan USA sponsored "refurbishments".  I'm a fan of provenance, and "time retention", or patina, myself.  Still, seems like the Safari Gold car had its patina removed, but still got the higher price.  It's still a resto-restomod.  Valuation is a finicky beast.

This auction is a contrast to the common discussions of correctness, which is nice.  Thanks for clarifying.

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I am curious about “what makes this car so high priced ? “

Nissan USA ‘s program? Or not registered since the car was imported from the US ?

Dust ? I do not get it this condition is attractive, BH auction declares “ barn find” , but personally I do not think this word is proper for these cars. I can not explain well , I just feel so. Many people know these cars were there and the previous owner could take care of them but did not.  I feel sorry for these cars and for many people involved the Vintage Z program . And the parts ! So many new parts were installed, and so many parts were refurbished, but most of them turned “ deteriorated “ without using them . That is sad , waste of money and waste of people’s efforts. And waste of new parts.

I assume this red HLS30-00630 would still be beautiful, sitting in a rich man’s beautiful garage without registered in Japan, if the car shows up on an auction it will go much higher than these two cars.

Kats

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Edited by kats
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You tube for these cars,

 

Every time I saw cars were moved by holding thin bumpers and body panels ,

it made me wonder sellers and winning bidders were going mad .

Kats

Edited by kats
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1 hour ago, kats said:

I am curious about “what makes this car so high priced ? “

I think it's an example of 'Auction Fever', Kats. A typical perfect storm of unwarranted hype ("Barn Find", 'Vintage Z', 'Famous-in-Japan owner') and timing (big hoo-ha auction connected to Tokyo Auto Salon, so all the big car guys are 'in town'...) that is hard to replicate. Elsewhere people are marvelling at the price achieved for the 10km-from-new R34 GT-R too, and thinking - probably mistakenly - that it makes their R34 GT-R equally as valuable.

Truth be told, better Zs than the two VZ cars could be bought at much lower prices, but the buyer(s) likely don't really know or even care. It's often the case in car auctions, and I hate them. At least the people at a livestock auction know something about what they are buying...

Yes, I feel a bit sorry for the cars too but I feel even more sorry for the KPGC10s and PS30s that went across the block in the USA over the last couple of years.

Matthew 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under your feet and turn and tear you to pieces".      

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I believe it is a little bit auction fever and a little bit of speculation on the rising interest in series 1 and 2 Z cars. One of Les Canaday's restorations recently went for over 70K. He contacted me and said that a auction house in NY was looking for one with provenance to auction off. I appreciated the lead from Les, but I am not ready to let mine go. The values seem to be rising quickly on these cars. I did recently watch an investment program that suggested that if you are holding a classic car as an investment you might consider selling it soon. His reasoning was that the next generation unlike the boomers do not care about or long for the cars of their youth. I don't agree or disagree, just found it interesting. 

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