gundee

Fairlady 432 at Auction

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    1 hour ago, Gav240z said:

    PS: Looks like the Boomers have figured out how to "meme" hehe. Or are you Gen X? I probably shouldn't ask. :).

    Mr Richard Hell (and his Voidoids) told me in 1977 that I belonged to The Blank Generation. But I can take it or leave it each time...

    Hey. Never too old to meme. They are just captioned stills, after all.

    About those "faster" comments: Yes, they'll keep coming. And my daily driver diseasel Audi - all two tonnes, heated leather, tow hitch and Bang and Olufsen of it - would probably show any 432-R the way around a race track too. But so what? Those 'my car would...' guys are missing the point so far that they aren't even on the same map. 

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    It is an odd cognitive dissonance I find, because if you mention a more expensive marque such as a Ferrari GTO. Suddenly nobody advocates sticking a modern V8 under the hood. It seems if something is relatively affordable it should be open slather, to chop up, modify and change from its original state rather than appreciate for what it is or was. Sadly.

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    Hi xs10shl , I missed understanding about it , I reviewed it , yes you were referring to KPGC110 , Ken & Mary GTR . Recently I have heard those cars  changed hands privately in 40-45 million JPY range . I have never been interested in that car , I don’t get it why the car is so expensive, yes I know it was only 197 produced but ... 
    Dino 246 is in a same price range , I know it is so beautiful but why it is so expensive ?
    2.4 litter six-cylinder  , two seater , rack and pinion , four independent suspensions , five speed , almost same as our car ! 
    I wish my Z432 would be an R , then I would have been able to trade it with a Dino easily . Even I would have got change .

    Kats

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    Hi Gavin , 

    We are seeing a lot of R32 GTR are shipped to overseas everyday. On the other hand I have met some owners who wanted to sell their cars but not for overseas buyers , I can sympathize with what they are feeling. 
     

    BTW , could the winning bidder be an overseas buyer because it was made by phone . Interesting!

    Kats

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    Road and Track calls it an 'absurd' price. But then admits at the end the price makes sense. Well maybe for some people it does I guess.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a30502658/1970-datsun-z432r-sold-800000-auction/?src=socialflowFBRAT&fbclid=IwAR0YG5jsXUkXpmPoQpTdFH4fMF6R1KF2gTpPdvXeMGCSMoDZf76_0XpnRXA

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    1 hour ago, gundee said:

    Road and Track calls it an 'absurd' price. But then admits at the end the price makes sense. Well maybe for some people it does I guess.

    They also call it:

    "... a competition-prepped version of the early 240Z..."

    Don't think they've quite got their head around how all this works.

     

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    16 hours ago, kats said:

    Hi Gavin , 

    We are seeing a lot of R32 GTR are shipped to overseas everyday. On the other hand I have met some owners who wanted to sell their cars but not for overseas buyers , I can sympathize with what they are feeling. 
     

    BTW , could the winning bidder be an overseas buyer because it was made by phone . Interesting!

    Kats

    In Australia we've had "grey" imports for a number of years (since the early 90s) and many of the Grade R or lower quality cars were shipped to Australia from Japan and patched up to look better than they really were or had their odometers tampered with and wound back (high mileage examples). The R32s in particular were at 1 point very cheap, a good 1 was as low as $10,000 AUD back in 2010.

    So many of these cars have had rough lives, patchy history and or accident damage, non-original motors (swapped out), etc.. the crazy thing now is that these cars are now selling for $40,000-$50,000 AUD.

    I see a lot of the rougher examples showing up in North America now also, but the truly good ones that go to auction in Japan sell for good money which stuns many onlookers, but I suspect the only reason for surprise is that many people don't realise the difference between a good original example and the ones with questionable history.

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    If I had that sort of money, myself, I would rather order a MZR build Z from the UK.

    Plus what I always wanted, a 66 GT350 Mustang. And still have a few bucks left over.

    Or my friends Ferrari 288 GTO before he sold it. 

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    There are loads of Nissan Skylines R32 GTR; R33 GTR and R34 GTR in the UK. If you have attended a Japfest show in the UK, it is flooded with Skylines GTRs.

    5 - 6 years ago, you could pick up a quality R32 GTR for £7K. Now, everyone thinks their car is worth three to four times that amount and are waiting for a US buyer to contact them.

     

     

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    50 minutes ago, gundee said:

    If I had that sort of money, myself, I would rather order a MZR build Z from the UK.

    Plus what I always wanted, a 66 GT350 Mustang. And still have a few bucks left over.

    Or my friends Ferrari 288 GTO before he sold it. 

    MZR cars are custom built. You can't compare a MZR car to a 432 or 432R

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    1 minute ago, PZ 69 said:

    MZR cars are custom built. You can't compare a MZR car to a 432 or 432R

    Agree, and I'd rather an OEM factory car over the MZR offering myself.

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    16 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

    Any details on the thinner metal parts in the 432R and the reinforced parts?

    This topic has been covered before. I suggest you do a search.

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    1 hour ago, PZ 69 said:

    This topic has been covered before. I suggest you do a search.

    Wow, thats funny.

    Spoken to the Hoover no less 😀

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    13 hours ago, PZ 69 said:

    MZR cars are custom built. You can't compare a MZR car to a 432 or 432R

    He's not comparing them, he's just saying what he would rather have.

    13 hours ago, PZ 69 said:

    This topic has been covered before. I suggest you do a search.

    I doubt there is a single thing about Datsuns that has not already been discussed here, perhaps Mike should shut down the active forums and we can all just search the archives? I suggest you take the bug out of your azz, we don't need another prig on this forum.

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    13 hours ago, 240260280 said:

    Any details on the thinner metal parts in the 432R and the reinforced parts?

    Questions like this are instances where the term '432-R' needs to be refined into 'street' and 'race' specifications. 432-Rs sold to private customers for registration and street use had differences from those sold for pure race use. 

    In some respects it's wiser to treat 432-Rs on a case-by-case basis.

    4 minutes ago, grannyknot said:

    I suggest you take the bug out of your azz, we don't need another prig on this forum.

    Who is a "prig" and who isn't depends very much on your own viewpoint. You might like to take a peep in the mirror at your own "azz" occasionally.

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    On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 11:10 AM, gundee said:

    Road and Track calls it an 'absurd' price. But then admits at the end the price makes sense. Well maybe for some people it does I guess.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a30502658/1970-datsun-z432r-sold-800000-auction/?src=socialflowFBRAT&fbclid=IwAR0YG5jsXUkXpmPoQpTdFH4fMF6R1KF2gTpPdvXeMGCSMoDZf76_0XpnRXA

    I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX. 

    Can you imagine a guy selling a 260z telling a prospective buyer that one of these recently sold for $800k?  I have seen people comment about the Franklin Mint Z as if somehow their car could be worth that if they restore it properly.  I could argue the rising demand of 240z impacts the value of unique cars such as this one, the Franklin Mint Z or the VIN chasers.  But I just wonder how many people overpay for a car because of the occasional sales like this one and do so for a car that will never be worth anything.  Marketing hype raises sale price for the uninformed  but then reality sets in after you get it home.

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    13 minutes ago, 87mj said:

    I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX. 

    Can you imagine a guy selling a 260z telling a prospective buyer that one of these recently sold for $800k?  I have seen people comment about the Franklin Mint Z as if somehow their car could be worth that if they restore it properly.  I could argue the rising demand of 240z impacts the value of unique cars such as this one, the Franklin Mint Z or the VIN chasers.  But I just wonder how many people overpay for a car because of the occasional sales like this one and do so for a car that will never be worth anything.  Marketing hype raises sale price for the uninformed  but then reality sets in after you get it home.

    Most of the whole world see's zero extra value in the 'Franklin Mint Z'. Also remember that the whole car was effectively an insurance 'total loss'....

     

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    14 minutes ago, 87mj said:

    I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX.

    Only I disagree with you on this, the most desirable models fetching record prices does trickle down to the lower specification models. I've seen this time and again.

    Just a few examples:

    1. Air cooled 911s get mental money, the humble 912s climb in value.

    2. Skyline GTRs (R32) start selling for double what they did a few years ago, R33's start to climb in anticipation of 25 year rule in US of A impacting the values of all R32/R33/R34 models. Don't get me started on R34 GTR values, the rarest specs are selling for crazy money, but even the lowest non V-Spec cars are getting crazy money.

    3. C10 GTRs are now over quarter million mark and the humble non-GTRs (clones) are asking $100k+

    4. Spirit R and Type RZ FD RX-7's go for $100k+ and lower spec Type RB, RS, Bathurst R etc.. models all increase.

    This is because those who want the "special" versions or higher spec cars are priced out, so they look at the next most desirable options and may a Premium for them in a rising market. It trickles down to the lower specification cars.

    Early 240z's fetch a Premium over later 72/73 models. But a rising tide as Warren Buffet says lifts all boats. So later 240z/260z and even 280z's have increased in value in the past 3-4 years (in some cases doubling in value).

    I agree that rusty buckets shouldn't increase in value much, given the work needed and potential return on investment being poor. But good quality cars will always increase in value (IMHO) given that cost of certain parts continues to go up, labor costs increase and supply drops over time. At least until a demographic shift causes certain marques to fall out of favour and in some cases (50/60s cars) can be bought for a song compared to their restoration costs.

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    8 minutes ago, Jason240z said:

    Most of the whole world see's zero extra value in the 'Franklin Mint Z'. Also remember that the whole car was effectively an insurance 'total loss'....

    True, another example is the Samuri Z's in the UK. They have far less appeal outside of Europe/UK.

    A car like the Z423-R however has global appeal.

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    3 minutes ago, 87mj said:

    I may as well stir the pot a little on this.  The thing I find most amusing about this is that out on FB, people believe the escalating price of this 432 actually impacts the value of all 240/260/280 & ZX.

    What I'm seeing is quite a lot of people not quite understanding the difference between the 432 and the 432-R. I think that will probably continue, just as it does in the classic Porsche world where Mr Average just won't have a deep enough interest to spot the difference between a 911S and a 911R at ten paces.  

    I take your point about people tending to think that the rising tide raises all ships, but that's been happening across the rest of the S30 range with people wanting to believe that recent sale prices for early/'significant' 240Zs are pulling up prices of later 240Zs, 260Zs and 280Zs. They may even be right to some degree, but there are still a lot of those cars extant and available, which must suppress average values somewhat.

    That's not the case with extant 432s and - more so - the 432-Rs, most of which are known to enthusiasts in Japan individually (by chassis number no less), and there are not many hiding undiscovered any more. This will tend to keep prices high.

    I think it's fair to say that rising values of 432s and 432-Rs - along with other rare models like the 240ZG - have been of concern to long-term owners in Japan. People who bought their cars 20, 30 and 40 years ago are not necessarily rejoicing, and some may see high value as something of a burden due to unwanted attention (the wrong kind of attention...) and higher insurance implications with strictures on storage and use.         

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    4 hours ago, Gav240z said:

    True, another example is the Samuri Z's in the UK. They have far less appeal outside of Europe/UK.

    A car like the Z423-R however has global appeal.

    They've not much interest/appeal in the UK apart from those with them who want to sell!

     

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