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New Fujitsubo Exhaust System to be Released


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It was a Japanese langauge article. It refers to S30s but shows an S31 and I don't see any relevance to UK or USA Zs where in those countries, one must exclude 280Zs, 260Zs and any 240Z with an R200 diff.

I maintain that if Fujitsubo (as they obviously do) allow export sales, these should be accompanied with at best a disclaimer stating that these are not designed for anything other than JDM cars and in any case not those with R200 diffs ! 

Is that too complicated and too much to ask ? Now, if Alan digs down and discovers that they do have such a caveat, the fault is 100% on the retailers but not for heaven's sake the consumer who trusts an official importer of Fujitsubo's kits !

https://whiteheadperformance.com/product/fujitsubo-legalis-r-exhaust-system-datsun-240z-260z-280z-s30/ (note 260Z/280Z) !

Application:

1970-1973 Datsun 240Z
1974-1974.5 Datsun 260Z
1975-1978 Datsun 280Z

Note to early 260Z owners: This exhaust system will fit early (small bumper) 260Z cars and some minor adjustment/alteration of vehicle exhaust hangers may be necessary for a perfect fit.
Note to late 260Z & 280Z owners: This exhaust system will fit late 260Z (big bumper) and 280Z cars with some alteration/modification of vehicle exhaust hangers. Because of the large extended bumpers on these cars, the exhaust tips will sit approximately 6” recessed from the rear bumper. With any 260Z or 280Z converted to 240Z bumpers or bumper integrated bodykits the exhaust tip extension will be correct.

NOT the customer's fault !

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4 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

Sean, really. When your company is the size of Fujitsubo you can come back and make the same claim. Let's see how that pans out shall we? 

You're folding up Alan - you ought to know me better - I won't be brow-beaten....and don't make this personal between me and Fujitsubo....I'm not attacking them, I merely commented that they ought to make sure that their products are not improperly advertised. The USA is a big market and one where people litigate easily - they must be happy to allow Whitehead the exclusive distribution and so could easily check up upon 1x dealer !

I speculate here but it smacks of happy to sell at distance and damned be the consumer who falls for the blurb !

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3 minutes ago, Sean Dezart said:

 

I maintain that if Fujitsubo (as they obviously do) allow export sales, these should be accompanied with at best a disclaimer stating that these are not designed for anything other than JDM cars and in any case not those with R200 diffs !

They do have a very clear list on their website about what cars they fit....

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20 minutes ago, Sean Dezart said:

Please share the link with us Jason - cards on the table here :-)

I've posted the link a few posts back.

Posts 100, 106 also show it.  Its not a cards on the table 'anything',

Edited by Jason240z
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You know Sean, you REALLY don't want your own products subjected to the same scrutiny as you are putting Fujitsubo's to. You might find some people in black suits knocking on your door and asking about your use of the 'NISMO' copyrighted brand name, and - for example - your claims to have a "JDM" system which is nothing of the sort (a single pipe into a rear box with two exits doesn't cut it as a 'twin pipe' system either). That spotlight you are standing behind could easily be switched back to shine on you...

The story here is quite simple. You have a horse in the race as you are making and marketing your own brand of exhausts. I have no real horse in the race as I don't own a Fujitsubo system nor am I likely to, and I'm simply sticking up for common sense and fair play. Fujitsubo - I will say it AGAIN - do NOT market their Legalis R system for the S30-series Z outside Japan, do NOT claim that it fits the USA market HLS30 'Datsun 280Z' and clearly state in their (Japanese!) literature that the fitment ends with cars made before September 1975 for the Japanese market. If you have a modified car or a car that differs in any pertinent way to a Japanese market car then you would - clearly - be well advised to research the product a little more deeply before claiming it has "fitment issues". If the people you buy it from have misinformed or misled you, then the buck stops with them. Strangely I seem to be the only one who is pointing at them rather than Fujitsubo. Why is that? 

One last thing, Sean. I think you would be WELL advised to let your own product speak for itself, and to keep away from dissing the likes of Fujitsubo and any other actual manufacturers. You are - in simple terms - a one man village shop in comparison to them.   

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7 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

You know Sean, you REALLY don't want your own products subjected to the same scrutiny as you are putting Fujitsubo's to. You might find some people in black suits knocking on your door and asking about your use of the 'NISMO' copyrighted brand name, and - for example - your claims to have a "JDM" system which is nothing of the sort (a single pipe into a rear box with two exits doesn't cut it as a 'twin pipe' system either). That spotlight you are standing behind could easily be switched back to shine on you...

The story here is quite simple. You have a horse in the race as you are making and marketing your own brand of exhausts. I have no real horse in the race as I don't own a Fujitsubo system nor am I likely to, and I'm simply sticking up for common sense and fair play. Fujitsubo - I will say it AGAIN - do NOT market their Legalis R system for the S30-series Z outside Japan, do NOT claim that it fits the USA market HLS30 'Datsun 280Z' and clearly state in their (Japanese!) literature that the fitment ends with cars made before September 1975 for the Japanese market. If you have a modified car or a car that differs in any pertinent way to a Japanese market car then you would - clearly - be well advised to research the product a little more deeply before claiming it has "fitment issues". If the people you buy it from have misinformed or misled you, then the buck stops with them. Strangely I seem to be the only one who is pointing at them rather than Fujitsubo. Why is that? 

One last thing, Sean. I think you would be WELL advised to let your own product speak for itself, and to keep away from dissing the likes of Fujitsubo and any other actual manufacturers. You are - in simple terms - a one man village shop in comparison to them.   

in post 91/92 I also said it should lie with the importer/reseller.

This is the water for the horse.

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fujitsubo.co.jp%2Fprods%2Fcarmodel4%2F02%2F00080&anno=2

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9 hours ago, HS30-H said:

I don't know why Jason, but he just doesn't seem to read them.

I read this :

S30  HS30 : L20, L24

GS30 : L20

And I agree with both of you that the importer/retailer has the most important responsability in averting clients but....by the very fact of these being exported, Fujitsubo must be aware that they risk being fitted on export models - do you accept that point ? It is on that point only that I reproche them for not including a disclaimer/caveat in the exported boxes stating that these are not designed to fit upon export models. This would protect the end customers who could then return them to the retailers, reinforced by Fujitsubo themselves...protection !

Big or small company - THAT is called customer relations and I'd be surprised if you don't believe in that and simply 'caveat emptor'.

Alan, you're sticking up for common sense and fair play ! Fair play to me means looking after the clients who buy the products and keep the company turning, common sense is avoiding said clients complaining publicly that their products don't fit - see my first paragraph re kits exported - either Fujitsubo have turned a blind eye (I hope not) or they've not become aware yet that foreign retailers are misleading Fujitsubo clients !

Big or small company...there have been many after-market headers produced, Trust and Kameari look to be copies too so no, as a 'one-man pig-farmer' in rural France, I really think I have less risk than those closer to home in the mother-land and mine are called :

Headers :

Full-Race

Race-Sport

Street-Sport 

Exhaust lines :

2x seater and the 'spawn of the devil' 2+2

Mufflers :

Classic

Street/Track-day

JDM*

*this last you and I discussed and agreed that it was a more suitable name than 'Z432' as indeed resembled (except from the inlet side) the part which was optional in the S30 JDM and not confinded solely to the S20 powered cars.

From July I shall also be supplying an S130 complete header and line - I guess I'm speculating Jason.

 

Lastly, this is a forum where ANYONE can discuss about anything and everything Z-related - I won't be taking your (tongue in cheek again ?) advice to shut up. I have stated in a recent previous post that Fujitsubo make a great kit - I'm not and never have maligned their products - you have a fine line between nit-picking and all out war.....let's avoid the Guns of August and go back to plaing nicely together - we're all agreed here except on one which you both ignore - Fujitsuno knowingly exports their S30 kits to retailers knowingly selling them to owners of cars for which they weren't designed to fit upon........and both of you appear to accept that as normal business practice - I don't so burn me as THE heretic-messenger ! Have a nice Easter weekend.

 

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30 minutes ago, Sean Dezart said:

From July I shall also be supplying an S130 complete header and line - I guess I'm speculating Jason.

 

 

Sean you're crossing threads from other forums about other things, its not constructive to the discussion.

FWIW, no your not a speculator, you know EXACTLY what I mean.

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3 hours ago, Jason240z said:

Sean you're crossing threads from other forums about other things, its not constructive to the discussion.

FWIW, no your not a speculator, you know EXACTLY what I mean.

Just having a laugh which is more than you two are.

 

Talking of other threads from other forums : http://zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=27994&highlight=fujitsubo

Yes but 240z fit, lhd too apparently. Much cheaper than rhdjapan also.

You're nitpicking, I never said what the car in the pic was, just what the exhaust would fit.

http://torque-gt.co.uk/category/product-feature/

Just another retailer, quoting a 240Z when the car in photo isn't, expecting to sell JDM-specific model products into the UK S30 market.....will they be warning customers about fitting issues ?

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1 hour ago, Sean Dezart said:

And I agree with both of you that the importer/retailer has the most important responsability in averting clients but....by the very fact of these being exported, Fujitsubo must be aware that they risk being fitted on export models - do you accept that point ? It is on that point only that I reproche them for not including a disclaimer/caveat in the exported boxes stating that these are not designed to fit upon export models. This would protect the end customers who could then return them to the retailers, reinforced by Fujitsubo themselves...protection !

Alan, you're sticking up for common sense and fair play ! Fair play to me means looking after the clients who buy the products and keep the company turning, common sense is avoiding said clients complaining publicly that their products don't fit - see my first paragraph re kits exported - either Fujitsubo have turned a blind eye (I hope not) or they've not become aware yet that foreign retailers are misleading Fujitsubo clients !

...we're all agreed here except on one which you both ignore - Fujitsuno knowingly exports their S30 kits to retailers knowingly selling them to owners of cars for which they weren't designed to fit upon........and both of you appear to accept that as normal business practice...

Above snipped, bolded and underlined for clarity.

Sean, you have no way of knowing what the chain of supply involves. Having the best part of 30 years experience in import/export to and from Japan under my belt (it's what I do for a living) I would personally avoid making any assumptions about the links between Fujitsubo and the people who are retailing their products outside Japan. There could be any number of scenarios and chains of contact/trade involved, and if you are imagining some kind of ideal situation where Fujitsubo curates each individual product sale to the end user via the retailer then you are probably eating too much cheese before going to bed. It's simply not possible for a company of their size to do that.

Once again you are pointing the finger of blame at Fujitsubo - even after saying that you are not - and yet Fujitsubo themselves never claim to anybody that their Legalis R fits the USA market HLS30 'Datsun 280Z' model. They don't even claim it fits a USA market HLS30 'Datsun 240Z' model, although it seems that it will fit that model as long as it is still fitted with an R180 differential and is not modified in a way that interferes with exhaust system fitment. Clearly Whitehead Performance's literature is wrong, and I'd not blame Fujitsubo for that.

One last thing; your 'Z Story' Facebook page specifically mentions NISMO ("Collecteurs/echappement type NISMO") which NISMO themselves might take issue with (that's what I was referring to earlier). Copying/cribbing/replicating the shape of an exhaust manifold is not a problem but using the NISMO name in your description could be misleading and could also attract attention from NISMO themselves. As your business becomes bigger and more well known you might find yourself being put under the same scrutiny as you are putting Fujitsubo. I don't see how you would be able to vet every single end-user installation once you start getting into volume sales through multiple distributors, agents and re-sellers. I'm not telling you to "shut up", I'm just advising you to let your own 'Z Story' product speak for itself and to look after your own business. Taking vicarious exception to somebody else's problem and blaming it all on an unwitting and oblivious foreign manufacturer rather than the retailer and the end-user (who - clearly - bought the parts without realising they were not designed for his model) when you yourself are a competitor is most unseemly and I think it reflects badly. You seem to be keeping people happy with your product, so your attention would probably be best spent maintaining that and refraining from the temptation to throw stones at glass houses.         

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