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HLS30-00006 at the Crusher?


240260280

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Nope. It is just mighteee purdeeee.

Academically, all 4 photos of HLS30-00006 show clear front turn lights so this is *very* strong evidence pointing to the same unique car, in addition to the dark colour,  time line, geographical area, production numbers, and VIN numbers.

 

Understanding why 00007 and 00008 had amber turn indicators and why 00006 had clear and kept them into Jan is an interesting topic.

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13 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Nope. It is just mighteee purdeeee.

Academically, all 4 photos of HLS30-00006 show clear front turn lights so this is *very* strong evidence pointing to the same unique car, in addition to the dark colour,  time line, geographical area, production numbers, and VIN numbers.

 

Understanding why 00007 and 00008 had amber turn indicators and why 00006 had clear and kept them into Jan is an interesting topic.

That may well be the case, but colourising a photo to support your assertion is tampering with evidence

What happened to the assertion that one or more of these show cars was repainted/colour changed between events? 

In researching the factory competition cars - and especially regarding chassis numbers - I've learned to be a little more reticent about circumstantial evidence. I prefer to see supporting, primary source, period documentation/paperwork to back up theory and guesswork. 

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That could be the case for some data but in this case it is too compelling.  We will just have to be patient for colour photos to eventually pop up to confirm 100%.

Colorizing does make some b/w photos look nicer or provide context. 

 

1969 Daytona AARC Demo 240z Vin HLS30-00007 red colour sm.jpg

 

1969 image coloured.jpg

 

 

 

Nissan were "photoshoping" back in the day so it is nothing new:

240z early.jpgs-l1600.jpg

 

image.png

 

image.png

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

We will just have to be patient for colour photos to eventually pop up to confirm 100%.

LOL. Notwithstanding the fact that you didn't wait, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Considering zhome - without any detectable sense of irony - calls the Pierre Hotel event "THE INTERNATIONAL DEBUT" (clue: it wasn't...) you won't see many photos from the day. 

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I think many photos were taken but the people who took them are not posting due to their generation/tech savy, loss of photos, non-importance, media format (slide vs paper print), etc.  It is just like all of the other car shows and press events from back then.  There just are not many internet-published photos for most of these. Occasionally we find a nugget like Chris's Boston, or Kat's LA, or Mike's Vancouver, or your Tokyo images but these are all so rare.

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2 hours ago, 240260280 said:

I think many photos were taken but the people who took them are not posting due to their generation/tech savy, loss of photos, non-importance, media format (slide vs paper print), etc. 

Since we are hypothesising, here's an educated guess from me regarding the NY Pierre Hotel and LA 'Trunk Show' (that's what I'm calling them...) events:

I have never seen any press coverage of these events which included photos of the actual cars on display (Kats' colour LA photo looks like a 'personal use' shot by/for staff involved, and the NY show 'unveiling' photo is Nissan's) so my hunch is that either press photographers were asked not to shoot ('please use stock studio photos provided in the press pack'...?) or that the surroundings were unsuitable - maybe even too chintzy - to allow usable shots to be taken. Everything I've seen seems to point to the former.

If not, where was the period press photo coverage? I'll settle for American magazines, despite the "International Debut" tagline. Where's the protein? I only see photo coverage of the American/Canadian shows that followed.

In contrast, All the Japanese motoring magazines, as well as daily newspapers, carried coverage of the 1969 Tokyo Motor Show with their own photography. They even reported with their own photos from the 18th October Ginza Press Preview. Why was this not the case for the "International Debut" American trunk shows?  

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I think we are guilty of applying today's standards / accepted norms to the 50 year old event.  Black-and-white imaging was the norm for newsprint photography back then and color imagery was reserved for 'expensive' publications.  Further more, Datsun's announcements did not bear the importance to the North American automotive scene that Nissan's presence does now.  Most of the published, time relevant images I have seen from the moment are the stock photos provided in the press kit which, at the time, were used to avoid the cost of a photographer and delay associated with photographic reproduction.  By providing press release photography, Datsun insured the imagery that they wanted and the time frame for release of information by supplying press release packages and images.  As a result, we are just not going to see a plethora of images from which to compare and discuss.  Frankly, what we have now is pretty good.

Oh, and no, you just can't colorize an old B&W image and then draw conclusions from it.  Doesn't work that way.

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15 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

I think we are guilty of applying today's standards / accepted norms to the 50 year old event.  Black-and-white imaging was the norm for newsprint photography back then and color imagery was reserved for 'expensive' publications.  Further more, Datsun's announcements did not bear the importance to the North American automotive scene that Nissan's presence does now.  Most of the published, time relevant images I have seen from the moment are the stock photos provided in the press kit which, at the time, were used to avoid the cost of a photographer and delay associated with photographic reproduction.  By providing press release photography, Datsun insured the imagery that they wanted and the time frame for release of information by supplying press release packages and images.  As a result, we are just not going to see a plethora of images from which to compare and discuss.  Frankly, what we have now is pretty good.

What I'm doing is applying 1969 standards to a 1969 event. As I've already pointed out, the Japanese press carried coverage - including their own photos - of the Ginza Press Preview event, so what was stopping the American press from taking/using their own photos at the NY and LA "International Preview" (sic) events? I just don't buy the "cost of a photographer and delay" line. Press photography processing was fast enough to keep up with copy at the time, and this is hardly 'Hold the front page!' stuff, is it? Yes, the press pack photos allowed control of images used in publication, but that would need to go hand-in-hand with a request of 'No Photos' at the events themselves.

The problem is that the NY and LA hotel events do not live up to the hype. That hype - I'm all ears if you have an alternate suggestion - appears to be exclusively the domain of zhome.com. and its presentation of the Pierre Hotel event as something bigger and more important than it really was. It seems that there's a desire to somehow trump any other event, or at least diminish. The 18th October Ginza Press Preview doesn't even get mentioned. Ironically, this - it seems to me - is exactly what Katayama and other figures at NMC USA were trying to achieve, with the NY and LA hotel events arranged in haste as an answer to the bigger events happening in Japan. If I was them I would not want to be trumped/overshadowed either, so I have some sympathy.

zhome tells us that:

"The International Preview of an all new Sports/GT by Nissan Motors Ltd in Japan, was planned months in advance, and carried out in the U.S. by Nissan's P.R. Firm - Dunn/Cheney Enterprises. The 240Z on display had been flown in from Tokyo arriving the week before and after clearing U.S. Customs it finally arrived at the Hotel the 16 of Oct., just in time to get it set up on display in the Pierre Hotel's Grand Ballroom.

So, let's get this straight. According to zhome and/or Dunn/Cheney, a car arrived by air from Japan and was in the Pierre Hotel by 16th October. Or had it arrived from Japan "the week before" the 16th? It's hard to tell from the way it is written. And this is "just in time" for an event taking place on the 22nd? A week...? What were they actually doing for seven days? The - single - photo I've seen of this event shows a car standing in front of some curtains. Maybe it took a long time to find the right curtain hooks...? 

In addition to the N.Y. Dignitaries, Daily Press and Automotive Media, Nissan Motors chartered a commercial airline flight to bring the Detroit Press and Automotive Media to New York for this international preview and to then return them to Detroit afterward.

No photographers, or just no cameras? Maybe no film!? Sounds like a nice little treat though.

Mr. Dunn handled most of these arrangements personally, and reports that the Hotel Staff at the Pierre Hotel were the only people allowed to move the car from the receiving dock, to the hotel's elevators and into the Grand Ball Room. Local Union "Set Designers" had to be employed to build the display and the N.Y. Fire Marshall had final inspection before the doors could be opened. All of which added significantly to the schedule.

Yeah. A week. I guess they had that charter flight fuelled up, armed with finger food and well-stocked drinks trolleys, APU running, just waiting for the Fire Marshall to give the green light before they sent out the invitations to the guys in Detroit. Or just maybe this tale got taller in the telling...? 

 

Fans of 'colorized' photos might like to note that zhome tells us the NY Pierre Hotel car was then flown out to Los Angeles for the LA hotel event. You might want to adjust the colour balance on your monitor to mitigate this.    

 

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Alan, some are very interesting points. Thanks!

With respect to the recordings and recollections of events 50 years ago. Nissan is on record on their web site quoting Bob Sharp that HLS30-00006 was desired at the NYC Auto Show " I saw my very first Z car-a green one-at the New York Coliseum auto show ".  Both Nissan and the Bob Sharp quote are in error.  I will assume Bob was referring to the Oct 69 event rather than the April 70 Coliseum event as clarified by @gnozez who asked Bob about this.  

Likewise the photos of Ginza and the press driving event are a little uncertain as to the cars and locations of the photos.  Since the COMPANY and CAR OWNER's are in error, how the heck are we to figure it out except by making reasonable assumptions...thus I stand by HLS30-00006 being coloured green and at the Oct show, and by having found 50% of the publicly known images of that car in 1969!!!

As a request, and I'm sure many others here would welcome the info, could you please use your resources, knowledge, connections, and language abilities to find out about the cars HLS30-00009, 10, 11, and 12 as well as the test car flown to the USA in . Dec1969? We seem to know about all of the LHD early birds except these 5.

Many thanks!

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I like this topic; Alan as you know.  Along with MikeB, we discussed and collected through this topic for quite the enjoyable time!

Alan, we are pretty much on the same page.  Very little of the story adds up to what we have learned.  My "photographic explanation" was rather lame.  You make me laugh.  Really, the obvious answer to the lack of photographs is that they just don't exist.  Some of my best pictures come from Datsun USA quarterly publications.  You never know.  We may see something new.

Blue, you are on a very good track and thanks for your postings.  You don't need to colorize to prove your point.  It is pretty much accepted that HLS30-00006 is the car.   I was impressed with your Z-at-Daytona Hoovers by the way.  Good find.

I would be willing to bet that the California debut car was one of the Canada Test Cars.  It was silver.  The cars were in town.  The NY car was flown out to LA overnight - NOT!

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  • 4 weeks later...

More photos of a red car that seems to be HLS30-00007 (from a Nissan Motor Corp Video).

- JDM Rubber protector at start of rear bumper like the previous videos and images

- thin white-wall tires like in the 1969 Daytona Videos

- no centre "D" logo in hubcaps like the previous videos and images

 

NMC Images:

hls30-00007 -3.jpg

hls30-00007 -4.jpg

hls30-00007 -1.jpg

hls30-00007 -2.jpg

 

 

Reference Shot from different video shoot:

image.png

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

The Gazette Jan 16 1970 Montreal

image.png

 

Video from car show (No Datsun coverage) but a few "crushers"

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1078861/salon-auto-montreal-voiture-19970-archives

https://fr-ca.facebook.com/ArchivesRadioCanada/videos/prenez-le-volant-21-janvier-1970/10156199360856052/

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 7 months later...

Oct 27, 1969 Boston Globe:

 

The latest car to be introduced into the mass consumer market is a Japanese import called the Datsun 240Z. It was rushed onto the market in time to be here for the Boston show, the first major auto show in the country for the 1970 model year. The 240Z is no toy, just because it comes from Japan. The Datsun company says it is for the "more or less expensive market." Only two of the new Datsun 240Zs a two passenger fast back coupe, are to be found in the United States at the time, and one of them is at the auto show here. And you won't find them on the streets of Japan, because they are specifically produced for the United States market,, at a cost of. "under $3500." It has a six cylinder overhead cam engine that produces 150 h.p. They haven't forgotten the economy field, however;  in the same exhibit at the auditorium is a pickup truck that has a price tag of only $1875.

The auto show is playing to record crowds at the auditorium, some of them not just lovers of cars. The nearly 300 autos have to vie for attention with many lovely ladies.

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It is an interesting data point however. Perhaps the "two" they refer to are show cars:

HLS30-00006 Green (East Coast Shows in Oct-Nov)

HlS30-00008 Silver (West Coast Shows in Oct-Nov)

 

They most likely would not have mentioned the two Kaku U cars.... and what about the Red racer?

 

 

 

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