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1971 HLS30-14938 "Lily" build


Patcon

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10 hours ago, grannyknot said:

What colour are you painting her?

She's going to be that yellow that is already on her. I jambed the car out a few years ago but decided on moving my paint edge, so I am shooting over some of the existing single stage

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Well, I'm unhappy!

That's really an understatement. I'm absolutely pissed!! 🤬

So I ran the heater in the shop for a while to warm it up. Degrease the car and tack it good. Wet the floor down, ready to spray

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Using a Tyveck suit I had and I have found that tucking paper towels into my gloves prevents dripping on the panels

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So I am running a white sealer coat. The P sheet calls for one "medium coat to coverage" Well that's not gonna happen!!!

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Even at the coverage level where it runs, it hasn't covered the grey primer. The yellow needs a white base or it's a different shade when shot over a darker base

Not only did the sealer run really easy but I have tons of sh!t in the paint. I mean everywhere! I have no idea where it came from??

I had planned on sealer, then base coat, then clear. Now I have to sand again and get dust everywhere which will just compound the problem. and I will have to seal again. :mellow:

So frustrating...

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2 hours ago, grannyknot said:

Yikes! Why do you think it ran? Was the body too cold, sealer out of date, something about the new gun?  Great idea about the paper towel.

I really don't know. That is part of what's so frustrating.

The shop was about 64 degrees when I went in this morning and heated it up to close to 70 before spraying. I am using a normal activator. I assume they offer a faster catalyst which might help.

I can rule out the new gun, because I didn't use it. The sealer wanted a 1.5 tip and the new gun only has tips up to 1.4. So I used my old gun. I didn't get runs on the left side of the car where I laid a flash coat down and then a second flash coat. It almost covered with two flash coats.

The bigger problem than the runs is the trash.

I always have some trash in my paint no matter how hard I try, but I suspect the sealer. I have had it for a while but not an unreasonably long time. There is trash in the rocker panels and low on the rear valance. So probably not airborne dust.

I also should have tried to get the runs off the car before they cured. They are gonna be a pain to deal with...

I think my next step is to pull an old piece of sheet metal out of the pile and prep it to 600. If it's not windy outside tomorrow I will shoot sealer on it. If it has tons of crap in it then it's nothing to do with the shop and it's in the sealer.

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10 hours ago, Patcon said:

https://www.chevelles.com/threads/nason-primer-sealer.344661/

This might be an apt description

"looks sandy"

Based on the comments on the Chevelle website, there is a least anecdotal evidence that this product degrades over time.  The problem, of course, is that 'over time' doesn't mean how long since date of purchase, but instead how long since date of manufacture.  And the degradation process might depend on the storage conditions.  A call to the manufacturer's support line might provide some better insights or guidance.  

Your side experiment with the spare piece of sheet metal will probably* indicate whether your particular batch is flawed (* but not necessarily, because the spraying conditions won't match the conditions that existed within your indoor booth re temp and humidity).  Regardless of that outcome, I think that the safest route would be to write off what you have left and buy new.  Unfortunately, the law of paint system mix-and-match says that you should go with the same manufacturer again, so that all of your layers are Nason. 

The comments on the Chevelle website provide some useful thoughts on how to determine whether the new batch is also flawed.  Maybe there is more/better guidance available on other paint-and-restoration websites.  Also, the manufacturer may have their own guidance for pre-application checks on their product. 

I had a similar outcome with a vinyl paint that I applied to a Z upholstery panel.  Fixing the bad result was a PIA... but it was successful.

Crappy way to start the holidays.

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I made a test panel today. Pulled an old junk hood out of the yard. Covered in green funk.

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Scrubbed it with warm soapy water, degrease, wet sand at 600, then sealer.

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Still have some funk in the sealer but maybe not as much

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So I spent over an hour at finishmasters today. The general consensus is the sealer wasn't mixed enough but we can't account for the specs. He did some testing on the can but it didn't show a problem. It's possible the catalyst is going bad. Either way I'm not going to use any more of the sealer going forward. I will use white base coat like I originally did. The bad news is all of the white sealer needs to come off. It's not very thick but it's hard! I've already cut through in some areas and my blocking is already ruined in many areas. So I won't have a car ready for Zcon this year 😞

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I have pushed pretty hard this fall to get the car ready for paint and now I have 60-100 hours of sanding to get back to GO. Then I will need to reprime, block, retape, rebuild the booth, etc.

Pretty demoralizing...

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12 hours ago, Patcon said:

So I won't have a car ready for Zcon this year 😞

So sorry for the issues and frustrations you are going through Charles! I know you were making every effort to get Lily finished in time for Birmingham. It may still happen!

My Christmas wish for you is that everything goes smoothly from here onward. You've paid enough "dues" to the Z gods for the things that went south.

It will take a while for the sting of this to diminish, but you know Lily WILL BE beautifully finished. You won't accept anything less.

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On 12/23/2021 at 3:02 AM, Patcon said:

I always have some trash in my paint no matter how hard I try

Just a thought.. could it come from lose (rusty) dust from a compressor tank?  Is there a airfilter on the system? 

I also can feel your pain.. i once had to paint a bike (motorbike) and i had terrible problems with silicone in the paint... after 4 ! times i was happy with the result... pfff... 4 x high gloss black..

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Have you asked the boys on autobody101.com? Got to ask, are you filtering the sealer through a 50 micron mesh cone filter into the cup? Do you have dry staticy conditions at the moment that could be attracting trash ?  A ground cable to the frame and a final alcohol wipe can help.

I have had so many problems with sealers that I just don't use them anymore, high build urethane primer sanded to 800 then colour coat on top of that.  I feel for you man, get Cody in there and put a block sander in his hands.

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3 hours ago, dutchzcarguy said:

Just a thought.. could it come from lose (rusty) dust from a compressor tank?  Is there a airfilter on the system? 

I also can feel your pain.. i once had to paint a bike (motorbike) and i had terrible problems with silicone in the paint... after 4 ! times i was happy with the result... pfff... 4 x high gloss black..

I don't think air could be an issue. I have a very high quality redundant air filtration system.

1 hour ago, grannyknot said:

Have you asked the boys on autobody101.com? Got to ask, are you filtering the sealer through a 50 micron mesh cone filter into the cup? Do you have dry staticy conditions at the moment that could be attracting trash ?  A ground cable to the frame and a final alcohol wipe can help.

I have had so many problems with sealers that I just don't use them anymore, high build urethane primer sanded to 800 then colour coat on top of that.  I feel for you man, get Cody in there and put a block sander in his hands.

I am filtering through cone filters that are evidently 150-200 micron filters. I haven't seen 50 micron filters

It is possible that static is an issue sometimes. Although it had rained the day before and was fairly humid so static risk should have been low. I have not been onto Autobody 101 to ask. I guess that could be an option. At one time I did have a ground cable to the chassis but have not done it in a while. The alcohol wipe is a good idea.

I don't know that I will use sealer again after getting burned like this.

800 seems pretty fine?

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On 12/14/2021 at 7:08 PM, grannyknot said:

Charles, have you heard about these Acrylic Linear sanding blocks? There is a number of vids on Utube, very impressive how flat they get your panels, I just ordered the the 12" set and will try them out on the 240z this winter.

https://linearblockingtools.com/our-products

Chris,

So I was shopping for some new blocks, since I will have to reblock the whole car. They don't have a complete sets but they do have individual blocks.

If you were going to buy one flexible block and one straight block, what lengths would you want and why?

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The 18" flexible would be great for the gentle curves around the edges of the roof and back fenders, 12" flex would be good just about anywhere as would a 12" straight. It would also be nice to have a 6" straight for the tight curves and edges of the front fenders and hood.  I mentioned I ordered 2 12"x12" 3/16th acrylic sheets, when they arrive I'm going to make a 12" flex, a 12" straight, 6" straight and bunch of 1"&2" blocks of various lengths.   The 18" would be nice but I think you could do everything with a couple of 12"'s and a 6" block of hardwood.

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I thought the 18" curved would be nice.

I thought about getting a 24" straight but there are almost no straight sections on the whole car. Im not even sure the doors are truly straight.

Have you seen my thread at autobody101?

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Badsix is a very knowledgeable guy, I'm surprised more of the other top 5-6 guys haven't jumped in, maybe just because it's the holidays.  

Have you thought about re mixing the runny sealer and spray over top of the sanded sealer?  At least it's the same chemistry so much less likely to lift and then you wouldn't have to remove every bit of that sealer.  It's a tough call, by the time you sand all that sealer off you're going to have hit bare metal in so many places.  And like what Badsix says, that will be a lot of layers if you spray epoxy over the runny sealer.

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8 minutes ago, grannyknot said:

Badsix is a very knowledgeable guy, I'm surprised more of the other top 5-6 guys haven't jumped in, maybe just because it's the holidays.  

Have you thought about re mixing the runny sealer and spray over top of the sanded sealer?  At least it's the same chemistry so much less likely to lift and then you wouldn't have to remove every bit of that sealer.  It's a tough call, by the time you sand all that sealer off you're going to have hit bare metal in so many places.  And like what Badsix says, that will be a lot of layers if you spray epoxy over the runny sealer.

I think some of those guys don't have an answer for me. It's a unique problem...

I would have to replace the sealer with a new can because I removed too much of the liquid from the original can and not enough of the solids. So the sealer might be compromised at this point and the remainder of the can might be too. I also have the issue of trash still. Which is probably a sealer problem. I have a gallon of white base that Finishmaster's gave me to make up for my trouble, which was nice. I had about decide to run white Southern Poly epoxy over the car after I get it clean. Hopefully nothing will lift. I have found with my sanding the roof and quarters could be flatter. That is why I was asking about the acrylic boards.

It is a lot of coats and that was always going to be an issue with a white under coat. I might spot prime my sand throughs but there are already a bunch of them. So that might be impractical

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21 hours ago, Patcon said:

I have a gallon of white base that Finishmaster's gave me to make up for my trouble

When you use that, first make a test spray on something.. before you do it on your car.  Then you know if it's still good and mixed right!

(Maybe your wheelbarrel needs a new paintjob! 🙂 )

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, Patcon said:

So here is where I'm currently at

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Most of the sealer is off the big surfaces. Still a lot of detail work to do! I just don't think I can get my shop up to temp and keep it there for painting. My shop is concrete filled block walls and floor. Totally uninsulated. There is an incredible amount of thermal mass to try to heat up and hold at temperature when it's 40dF outside. So I think for now I will switch gears and try to work on some other aspects of the car since it's too cold for me to paint. Possibly brakes, differential, drive train or other systems that I can bag up and keep clean while painting. This isn't my preferred method but it would allow some progress while it's cold outside...

When I do get back to paint, I have some new blocks to try and some Mirka PSA paper

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Did you narrow down what happened with the sealer?

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4 minutes ago, DC871F said:

Did you narrow down what happened with the sealer?

Not totally. I know it was mis-mixed but I dont know where the grit came from, chemical reaction or dirt...

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So I switched gears today. Wasn't really motivated to do anything but finally did (I had Covid a week ago).

So I started working on the differential and differential brace to accommodate an LSD diff

I drew the transverse assembly member in AutoCAD

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Then I plotted it out on my big plotter and mounted it to cardboard

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I also got the bolts for the musache bar back in the chassis. I had asked a year or to ago for torque values but never got an answer so I Googled generic torque values. They're 18mm thread and I assume they're 8.8 so I torqued them at 130#'s with a little blue lock tight. I could have gone all the way up to 200#s supposedly but that seemed like enough.

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I got the mustache bar hung. It's interesting you can't install it with all the other suspension in the way. I was able to thread the chassis bolts up and down so I didn't have to disassemble the suspension

 

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