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Hey doods.

So I got a mid-pipe with an original NICHIRA N3300 resonator on it, and I believe it's a parts-department unit as it's coated in the original black semi-gloss finish. It has a couple of dings and dents, but nothing major. I know it may not be the right one for the 01/1970 car, but it should be close enough at this stage where I can bolt it up and replace it at a later date if I find anything more suitable.

My issue is the Exhaust "downpipe" and muffler section. The one from jdm-car-parts is the same as the one that MSA sells, and i've noticed that the merge is not quite as close to OE as it could be. Or maybe the one I have off the car is an aftermarket unit? I'm not quite sure. 

Which brings me to...

questions on the downpipe... Just so I can identify the stuff I have...

  • Does anyone have a photo of the original downpipe and merge joint in the exhaust? I have one that has a formed section and one that is crudely welded where they meet. I am going to take a photo of it today if I can get to where it's stored in time.
  • Does anyone know what the original finish on the exhaust from factory was (not from the parts counter). Aluminized or Raw ERW welded exhaust tube?
  • Crush bends?
  • Who makes the closest reproduction unit? 
  • Does anyone have an OE one for sale ?

questions on the midpipe

  • Does anyone have photos of the original?
  • Are the N3300 part number units compatible with earlier cars, or should I start looking for another? The dimensions seem to be similar to the exhaust on another car that is an aftermarket welded in unit.
  • Should I remove the black paint and keep it raw? I'm pretty sure I can remove all the paint fairly easily. I have a good paint remover that I can wipe off  with a rag and toothbrush, and it should remove any trace of black paint and bring it back to the all-steel look to match the downpipe and muffler if they're "steel" looking.
  • Does anyone have an OE one for sale?

questions on muffler

  • Does anyone have photos of the original other than the ones on jdm-car-parts? 
  • I have one that SEEMS like its the original unit on one of the cars, but it doesn't have NICHIRA embossing on it. It only has INLET <----> OUTLET embossing on it. Was the NICHIRA embossing on all units? 
  • Was it raw steel or silver as OEM
  • Who makes the best reproduction of this unit?
  • Does anyone have an OE one for sale?

I know it might not seem like a big deal to some but I like the original style stuff, so if it can be made- I'd rather have those on the vehicle.

Will try to do a large update on #01606 and post photos in my other unfinished threads soon!

Thanks!

Edited by Careless
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I've got a original midpipe from nissan somewhere on my garage attic. I know it's black with a small pre-muffler in it. it's black satin gloss original!  Has no dents few scratches if i remember correctly. ;-)

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Hi Careless,

I hope these pictures help you a bit. I did it for my car back in 2003. At least 1969-1972 have all same system Fairlady Zs and 240Zs.  

Kats

redrear.jpg

detailfaina037.jpg

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forshowmuffrer.jpg

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detailfainal 033.jpg

detailfainal 016.jpg

69%2520Tokyo%2520Motor%2520Show%2520-%2520HLS30%2520pic.jpg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

Edited by kats
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  • 1 month later...

Thanks kats,

Those are some great photos. Though you are lucky to have found an original exhaust system. I have yet to come across any NOS piece of the exhaust system.

I was ready to just go with the aftermarket reproductions at this point, though I'm not sure how good they are, or how close they are to the originals. I was told that the currently available ones have a rounded/stamped collector where the two downpipes meet, which was born out of "ease of manufacturing"- but to me, that seems a little half-assed.

Edited by Careless
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lots of threads out there on this issue, and lots of opinions on what sounds best, fits best and performs best.

i went with a local muffler shop that fabbed up a great system to my specs for about the same $ as a complete pre-made system - i've got a thread on here somewhere about it...

take a think on this option, as you'll be able to make it exactly how you want it, more than likely you'll get a better product (pre-made systems can be a bit thin) and you will have perfect fit. i'm very happy with my setup and it felt good to have the car up on a lift and lay out the path, hanger type/locations, muffler & resonator size/position and spec the tailpipe in polished sst.

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Thank you for the suggestion, but that's not what I'm looking for, rossiz.

I am after an all original exhaust. I've fabricated many of my own exhausts, both in stainless and mild steel, both MIG and TIG welded... I know the benefits of doing so as far as durability and fitment go.

What I am trying to decide on is whether I should buy the jdm-car-part/MSA system based on how close to the original design it is. My gripe with what I've been told regarding the mid-pipe is that it uses a rounded/stamped collector to make it "easier to fabricate"- which in my opinion is not how a restoration quality piece should be constructed if that's not how the original pieces were made.

Sure, it probably improves performance- but like most things that can be improved upon on these cars, the original stuff (even if less desirable from a performance stand-point) is a feature of these cars, whether inferior or not.

I'm simply looking for closest-to-OEM. nothing modified or performance-minded aftermarket. 

Edited by Careless
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Hi, here are some additional information of the exhaust system . Pictures from Fairlady-Z and Datsun 240Z service manual and service bulletin.

We have 4 types of front pipe,

#1 early manual trans

#2 early auto trans

#3 later manual trans

#4 later auto trans

The early type has a junction between dual pipes and single pipe, later type does not have it , just welded two pipes together.

Kats

240Zex1.jpg

240Zex2.jpg

240Zex3.jpg

240Zex4.jpg

240Zex5.jpg

01260004.jpg

01260012.jpg

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I see that they are identified by what looks to be the different transmission mount styles.

The early auto and manual cars both used the same trans mount, whereas the later ones looked different for manual and auto.

so this begs the question- what transmission mount would #1600 have? the early style or later style? because I have the later style exhaust, and the 1971 car I have at the shop also has the early style transmission mount.

Or maybe it wasn't mount dependant, but have you any idea which production number the exhaust merge changed over between early and late?

I have both exhaust at the shop. #182 has this (left side)

240Zex3.jpg

 

 

#1606 has this 

240Zex2.jpg

 

 

 


Also, amazing photos. Really great stuff, kats.

 

Edited by Careless
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I believe I picked up the last complete exhaust system from Brantford Nissan and had installed years ago. I don't know if these helps you but here's are some photos I took. Very difficult to take under the car. It's from the stock 1972 240Z.

 

919.jpg

920.jpg

921.jpg

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Careless,

from what I have been collecting and cross-refferencing those factory descriptions, I can say changes were made late 1971, Oct 1971. In another words, it was made when the new center consol and the new hubcaps were installed and the final gear alined with the rear axle.

Basically E8700/E8800 etc was applied from Oct 1971, these part numbers must be for the new changes.

And N3000 etc was applied from Oct 1972 and later, 20100-N3000 has a shorten exhaust chrome finisher to compare E4100.

Please note the 4th picture from the bottom, paragraph 4-3 , it says " ....the exhaust system has a new shape where the two pipes between one pipe."

And also the 3rd picture from the bottom, it says "....applied a dual vibration-proof mounting (manual trans only) "

the 2nd from the bottom and the last pictures confirmed the description avobe, I am so sorry using these pictures without permission. I believe the car was on ebay.     

Kats    

 

transmount.jpg

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exhaust.jpg

exhaust1.jpg

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$T2eC16Z,!)QE9s3HFhqOBRj74HvJVw~~60_3.jpg

$T2eC16Z,!)cE9s4PucF7BRj73mHy8g~~60_3.jpg

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  • 3 weeks later...

Kats, these pictures are a great help. I have both styles of downpipes and the later style must have been put on this #1606 car as a replacement at some point, as it doesn't fall within the time-line suggested in your literature.

I will be purchasing the available repro downpipe and muffler. If at some point I find an OE muffler I can always replace it.

 

Many thanks for clearing it up!

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  • 9 months later...

The muffler itself is ok. I haven't installed it to test fitment, but it looked pretty close to what was already on the car in terms of bends and size.

The 2-to-1 downpipe... meh.

not the greatest repro. it fits well, but the way it was made was, as i was told, to "save cost on production"... I've welded many exhausts as I've worked at a number of performance shops and I can say that's utter bullshit. Personally, I'd just make my own in the future, and I have 3 OEM exhausts now to make copies of. I found one while moving tucked under a storage rack. I have the very early stamped collector one, and two of the later 70+ side-entry merged ones, but I'm going to use what's there for now.

As i understand it, the way it's joined on the 2nd last photo posted by katz is how the late 70 and on were constructed. A side entry from one pipe to the other... and that would be far easier to produce than how it's made on the reproduction, which merges two to a collector style cut, and then continues down with another single pipe attached to the end of the first merge collector. IMHO, close... but not close enough if you care that much.

I understand that some feel "no one is ever going to see it" but the fact that this thread has photos of people willing to share the details negates that point, and having constructed exhausts myself... it would have just been easier to produce the late 70+ style as shown rather than "reproduce" one that is not identical to any of the OEM ones at all.

If there is any interest in actually producing good OEM reproductions of both kinds, I may entertain doing so later in the year.

 

I just don't want to step on anyone's toes by selling stuff that's already available, but I'm finding that the quality of said items is just not what I would expect given their simplicity. there has to be a market for discerning individuals, and some of the older Z repro guys are retiring... so I'm not sure if it would be acceptable just yet. I'm sure some people would be upset.

 

sorry for the rant. just started getting to me recently, the more i try and assemble this car, i'm satisfied less and less with what's been purchased to complete it before I started working on it.

 

 

Edited by Careless
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