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Vogtland springs

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    Does up and down orientation of these springs matter?  Clearly the coils are not wound with a smaller diameter at the top or bottom, and because they are linear, that shouldn't matter.

    I am thinking it doesn't, but I just want to see what you guys think.

    Edited by DaveR

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    I don't think so.  I installed them with the lettering facing up, but other than that, there didn't appear to be any difference between the top and bottom (or lack thereof).

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    Cool thanks, whats the reason to install the sleeves? just to protect the surfaces from any rubbing off of coatings?

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    That and I was worried about the possibility of noise from metal-metal contact (I figured all the more modern cars I've worked on that have something between the spring and the supports must have that for a reason).  I'm not sure it makes any difference, but I'm not taking it all apart just to find out :)

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    What did you use for the coil sleeves, and is it holding up?  May go that route while I have the opportunity, but unsure of what material I should use that is thin enough but hopefully will do the job.

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    Received my 240 versions the other day, was expecting them to be the same top to bottom if not front to back. They are neither.

     

    Front versions appear to have 2-3 tight coils at one end. Rear ones appear more uniform.  It is making me consider which way I should put them in the car (which end is up that is).  Do linear springs often have tight coils at one end?

     

    Left: front Right: rear

    IMG_20160810_172604748.jpg

     

    Left: rear  Right: front

    IMG_20160810_172638923.jpg

    Edited by DaveR

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    The spring's going to have the same amount of compression no matter which way it's installed, so all else being equal, the orientation shouldn't make a difference.  One the 280z, I recall the indentations for the end of the springs on the upper and lower seats being the same, if they're different on the 240, then turn the spring whichever way fits best.

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    Up or down won't matter, but I'd worry about the spring rates (see earlier in this very thread.  I should have posted the Hybridz link).  Hope it works for you.

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    No worries, I read all the threads beforehand. My part numbers seem good, and my rear strut fits perfectly, as does the gland nut. I don't think I will need a spacer.

    The rear spring is short enough that I don't need spring compressors to get the hat on. I can put a little weight on them and get the nut started. Not sure about the front though as it's not off the car yet. 

    I hope the ride is good though and not too rough, but I didn't want any issues that might occur with progressives. (Although most of those were probably mixed up back to front eibachs)

     

    FYI the following is definitely the case for 240's as well. I plan to email JDMWerks since I have some time before I will get to install them and see what they say. Really the answer doesn't matter since they don't sit better one way or the other (both ways sit pretty nicely) but I just wonder what their response will be

    2 hours ago, charliekwin said:

    The spring's going to have the same amount of compression no matter which way it's installed, so all else being equal, the orientation shouldn't make a difference.  One the 280z, I recall the indentations for the end of the springs on the upper and lower seats being the same, if they're different on the 240, then turn the spring whichever way fits best.

    Edited by DaveR

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    The photos in post 20 show both springs with 9 coils each.

    The photos in post 32 show 11 coils front and 9 coils rear.

    Seems odd. I don't get what they are doing on each set.

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    I am assuming you realize the post 20 ones are for a 280z and mine were for a 240. But yes I don't know why they are different in terms of the coil count.  

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    What I am saying is, yes the 280Z had longer and heavier oem rate springs so they would

    be different than the 240Z. But the Design was the same for both. Not different.

    • Like 1

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    JDMWerks states:"Follow the writing on the spring. Do not put the writing upside down."

    Typically this isn't the most foolproof way to do things due to the ability to mix up the printing during manufacturing, but maybe for a small run of these it is okay.  I am hoping @John Coffey can reach out to his acquaintance responsible for bringing these to us, and maybe give a more reassuring answer.

    Edited by DaveR

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    I thought you asked him about the progressive rate springs.  His answer seems boilerplate for installation.  Irrelevant to performance though, and installation in your case.  He did have some issues as noted earlier.  I'd guess that these are low volume parts compared to his other products, so he probably doesn't have a ton of time for them.

    John Coffey died in a motorcycle accident a few months ago.  He did comment in the past though, over on Hybridz, that he was only doing both sides a favor by telling about the new products.  He didn't have anything to do with their development.

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    :(  Sorry to hear that.

    I didn't ask JDMwerks about progressive rates, because they are not supposed to be progressive springs. I also didn't ask why there were more coils on one end, because honestly I didn't expect them to know the answer to that.

    Either way, not sure where i'm left with for installation. I suppose whichever way fits best, which I believe lines up with the wording being right side up as well.

    Edited by DaveR

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    Update for you guys/girls... I am in the process of installing the springs and struts, and hopefully it will be done this weekend and the car running for the first time in my ownership (fingers crossed)

    The rear's went together pretty easily, no need for spring compressors to reassemble (nor on the front for that matter). Only needed a slim washer on one side to make the strut properly fit the tube (fronts needed 2 washers).  Bolted back up, no real issues.

    Front is going okay, but interestingly enough the assembly with the new spring/strut is about 1" taller than the old when off the car/in the air.  I measure 13" from the fop of the bottom spring seat to the top of the isolator on the new, and 12-1/8" on the old. Who knows why, but it would seem that the strut itself has less overall travel. (or since mine are super old and don't move very smoothly maybe its just seized up I find that unlikely since those springs are pushing so hard.)

    Either way, due to this length it makes reassembling the front corners a bit annoying. Hard to get the tension rod bolted to the control arm. I haven't really analyzed things but it feels like the length of the tension rod might hold the rest of the suspension up in the air when the car is jacked up. Maybe this is intentional, I don't know.   My tension rod bushings are also original to the car, as are the front control arm bushings... so both of those like to resist motion and mean I have to fight to get the strut back into place as the control arm doesn't drop down as low as it might otherwise. That may be where the trouble is.

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    The T/C rods are much much easier to install with the car on the ground and suspension compressed.  The extra length of your assembly would be because the new shocks extend farther.  May not be directly tied to full travel.

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    Did you disconnect the tie rod end as well as the T/C rod?

    I did mine that way. Having the car on jackstands under the frame rails, the jack is now

    free to lift the strut back in to place. Once the top 3 nuts are installed you can then tighten the shock nut.

    Then bolt up the tie rod and T/C rod while compressing the strut with the jack under the control arm.

    Makes the job pretty easy.

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    I have everything disconnected, so yes. I suppose I was just nervous about compressing the strut to get the T/C rod in place. It seems that once its bolted to the control arm and I remove the jack... that TC rod would effectively be suspending the strut and more worrisome, resisting the significant downward force that the spring is imposing.

    It seems that its intentional and that force is expected on the T/C rod (it is a tension rod after all)... but it just was curious. I also believe I jacked the corner up from the front so it pulled it away from the T/C rod. Next time I do it I will jack it from the side so it doesn't kick it towards the front of the car and further away from the T/C rod.  We shall see.

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    I have a few basic question after reading all the threads on this site and Hybrid Z related to these springs.

    1.  Are these Vogtland model 9161031 for the 240Z considered progressive springs?  

    2.  Can anyone comment on their ride quality after replacing stock springs these Vogtland springs for ?  

    3.  Do these springs make your car stiffer and does ride quality/comfort suffer from their compression over bumps?

     

    Thanks,

    Marc M

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    They are not progressive.

    My ride quality is pretty good. I have no complaints.

    Springs are stiffer than stock, for sure. I haven't had any issues over bumps thus far. I have urethane bump stops but in my somewhat limited experience I don't think I have ever bottomed them out hard.

    Overall I am pretty happy... but you may have trouble finding them now as many places that listed them (ebay & brandcarparts) stopped stocking them a while back. Maybe they have more now but I don't know.

    I got them because I wanted a small amount of lowering, to not deal with the possible uneven problems some have with progressives, and a slightly higher spring force for more composed handling. In my research of them initially I didn't read anyone that was unhappy with the harshness (or lack of) in the ride. I unfortunately do not have miles on the car with the stock springs to offer a comparison.

    Edited by DaveR
    • Like 1

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    Hi Dave,

    Thanks for the feedback.   FYI, I emailed JDMWerks via eBay and he confirmed these springs are progressive.  

    Also, JDMWerks just received a new shipment of these springs.  They have been out of stock since October.  Vogtland must make a large batch for JDMWerks and ship them together since he does have the exclusive on this specific 240Z model spring.

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