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wheee!

1976 280Z Restoration Project

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    I have the specs at home, but the grounding point through the bolt is a redundant safety as I remember. It does not form part of the firing signal. You cannot test these COPs with a multi-meter,  you need a functioning system.

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    And from the look of a valve cover designed for these COPs, it seems the entire grommet seats inside the cover, then the bossing rises up to meet the bolt and COP head.

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    Edited by wheee!

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    I don't think the COP "sticks" offer much value solely due to their shape.  

    The key advantage is one unit per plug so less heat, more time to reset after a fire.  The stick is only a design byproduct to reach deep into the engine through the head. This is not needed for the Z as the plugs are readily accessible.

    Most COP-like applications I have seen use short spark plug cables.

     

    image.pngimage.png

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    I partially agree. For me, the main reason is to NOT have wasted spark so I can set individual dwell and fire with the Haltech.
    As for the LS type coils, I have heard good and bad reviews. And I didn’t want any spark plug wires. At all. And you lose the factory location for heater hose, it has to be rerouted.

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    Some of the COP coils have their own dwell control, I believe.  I think it makes the head bigger.  There's a bunch of COP options out there.  Some smaller motorcycle COP coils might be less bulky.

    Just getting vicarious.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/09-12-KAWASAKI-NINJA-ZX6R-ZX600R-OEM-IGNITION-COILS-COIL-SPARK-PLUG-CAPS/153137994597?epid=18017017407&hash=item23a7bc5b65:g:-6sAAOSwZthbZzSc

    image.png

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    Yup. Seen it.

    That is a dumb coil. It needs an igniter pack. Not interested. Those are ford cops.

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    17 minutes ago, wheee! said:

    That is a dumb coil. It needs an igniter pack. 

    That was my point in post #2456.  Your Haltech might have its own "igniters".  If it does you don't need an extra one on the coil.  You might be redundancing.

    Many ways to get it done.  The manufacturers' reasons for doing things are usually focused on ease of manufacturing and packaging parts.

    You could probably cut the ends off of the coils you have and make them smaller.  That long tube probably just has a wire inside with a clip on the end.  It's a solid plug wire.

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    2 hours ago, wheee! said:

    And from the look of a valve cover designed for these COPs, it seems the entire grommet seats inside the cover, then the bossing rises up to meet the bolt and COP head.

    Yup. I've not messed with those specific COPs before, but that's what I figured.

    And thinking about the wiring connections a little more... If they're logic level triggered, then the other two connections have to be +12 and ground. So the three connections would be trigger, power, and ground, but not necessarily in that order.  It's still unknown if the high voltage side shares the same ground connection or if it snags a separate ground through the mounting bolt.

    I did a little digging looking for a wiring diagram for how those COPs are connected in-situ (same part on Acura's and Hondas) and didn't turn up anything. And I would take that as good news... Seems reliable enough that not a lot of people are asking questions about the wiring diagram?   LOL

    Anyway, I'm clearly getting into the academic part of it that doesn't matter to the application. LOL.

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    Yes, there is a constant 12v from ignition source, then a ground trigger and a third constant ground to manifold. That seems right as I remember. I have heard nothing but good feedback on these COPs and I like their small footprint and the added security of a bolt. Some are just friction fit which is a no go for me.

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    2 hours ago, Zed Head said:

    That was my point in post #2456.  Your Haltech might have its own "igniters".  If it does you don't need an extra one on the coil.  You might be redundancing.

    Many ways to get it done.  The manufacturers' reasons for doing things are usually focused on ease of manufacturing and packaging parts.

    You could probably cut the ends off of the coils you have and make them smaller.  That long tube probably just has a wire inside with a clip on the end.  It's a solid plug wire.

    Haltech does not incorporate the igniters in the computer. Massive source of headaches for the Megasquirt daughterboard dudes. Igniters on the Coil is the best method. I am okay with the length of the COP boots for now. It put the COPs away from the dipstick and the heater lines.

    Edited by wheee!
    clarity

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    and @Zed Head, I do appreciate your input! As usual it brings up the not so obvious points that sometimes need to be mentioned and addressed.

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    Yes, this is true. But now you have another box and more wires. This method I’m going with will be cleaner and simpler. And even less costly I believe.

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    Let's throw another log on this fire. 

    This drawing has another method of securing the COPs. The folded metal plate will have two hole of different diameters to secure the top and bottom of the COP head along with a riv nut to to bolt the head down to the top plate. @ConVerTT is going to look at this and determine if this is a feasible design. He may do a folded bottom with a dimpled hole to secure the bottom of the COP without having to do an air channel. More to come as we finesse the crap outta this....

    Cop support.png

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    Part of the fun in adding custom components like A/C is fabbing the mounts etc for the controls. I used part of the bracket from the original controls to create a solid mount for the new ones. I used a piece of aluminum plate to create the backing plate. 

    It is also removable and mounts to the dash so the front console piece can be removed without disturbing the controls.

    I will cut the controls in later and powder coat the plate. 

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    F9DF1799-6CAA-4176-AB90-72F5DD1A09EC.jpeg

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    Waiting for a new seal for the output shaft and a new shift fork boot to come and then the 5 spd is good to go!

    Powder coated the fork chrome for fun!

    079F7BBA-500E-4B10-AB23-A65C7C3AECDC.thumb.jpeg.8955bae18f9b78927c0fcc5b33b9a4cc.jpeg

     

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    Powder coated the intake too! Not perfect as there was a little off gassing in the oven causing some pitting. But overall I’m  happy. 

     

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    16 hours ago, wheee! said:

    Part of the fun in adding custom components like A/C is fabbing the mounts etc for the controls. I used part of the bracket from the original controls to create a solid mount for the new ones. I used a piece of aluminum plate to create the backing plate. 

    It is also removable and mounts to the dash so the front console piece can be removed without disturbing the controls.

     

    F9DF1799-6CAA-4176-AB90-72F5DD1A09EC.jpeg

    Are you using something off the shelf, recycle from the junkyard or custom "by Mark"?

    Years ago I found a 95 Maxima head-unit that fits in the 'green space' in the picture above https://forums.hybridz.org/topic/88182-alternate-hvac-controls-in-a-280/ . Never got to wiring it up.... YET... your thread has given me alot of encouragement...

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    I am not that creative really... I am using the horizontal dial controls from Vintage Air.

    image.png

    The slider controls are too tall to fit in the space properly and just didn't work. I know another member has reworked the factory control panel to work with the Vintage Air sliders, but, like I said, I'm not that creative.

     I did get a little funky with the bracketry though. I wanted to make sure that the front access panel could bolt off and on without hindrance and that the A/C controls stayed put. I also wanted to be able to remove them from the dash to facilitate wiring etc. In doing this, I cut up the metal mounting frame from the stock unit to give me the proper bolt locations and then tweaked the design in order to support the "green" plate properly and securely. Basically two bolts secure the green plate in place along with the supports, so it can be quickly removed from the dash assembly if needed.

    Edited by wheee!

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    9 minutes ago, wheee! said:

    I am not that creative really... I am using the horizontal dial controls from Vintage Air.

     I did get a little funky with the bracketry though. I wanted to make sure that the front access panel could bolt off and on with hindrance and that the A/C controls stayed put. I also wanted to be able to remove them from the dash to facilitate wiring etc. In doing this, I cut up the metal mounting frame from the stock unit to give me the proper bolt locations and then tweaked the design in order to support the "green" plate properly and securely. Basically two bolts secure the green plate in place along with the supports, so it can be quickly removed from the dash assembly if needed.

    No worries - I attempted the Maxima control unit and welded some brackets (big BOOGER welds, not proud of those) to attach as you mention above. It LOOKS like it belongs (not like the 1985 Mazda neon orange control unit I thought would work) inside the bezel.

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    The factory dash includes dozens of mount points which is really handy. That and the number of pre-tapped holes on the extra brackets I won't be needing allowed me to literally bolt something together. I drilled and tapped maybe 4 holes total....

    The small size of the Vintage Air controls will also allow me to move them a little to the left and add another item to that panel. I'm thinking a twin 2.1A USB slot for phone charging, etc.

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    On 3/5/2019 at 10:51 AM, wheee! said:

    Let's throw another log on this fire. 

    This drawing has another method of securing the COPs. The folded metal plate will have two hole of different diameters to secure the top and bottom of the COP head along with a riv nut to to bolt the head down to the top plate. @ConVerTT is going to look at this and determine if this is a feasible design. He may do a folded bottom with a dimpled hole to secure the bottom of the COP without having to do an air channel. More to come as we finesse the crap outta this....

    Cop support.png

    Verdict:  Feasible

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    Could do stainless or powder coated ....

     

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