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JLPurcell

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Hi Dan:

The one in Front has longer tail pipe than the one in back. The 73 Z's had rear bumpers that were moved out from the body. Seems odd that they would use a shorter tail pipe for 73. Can you tell us more about this?

thanks,

Carl B.

Hello Carl,

When you refer to the tail pipe, above, are you making reference to the tail pipe "finisher" which is tacked onto the exhaust pipe extention at the rear of the muffler?

If so, given the fact that the later bumpers extend farther out from the body, yet the tail pipe finishers were shorter, I have no explanation for this. I do recall in a

post from Kats, that he used the later rear muffler assembly, ie., # 20100-N3300, on his car and had to add about 1" to this section of tail pipe so the older finisher

shown in DatsunZGuys picture, ie., rusted longer finisher, would fit correctly. Knowing this, I am assuming that the earlier rear muffler assembly, # 20100-E4100,

had a longer tail pipe section extending from the rear of the muffler to accomodate, and be correct, for the longer finisher.

I understand your reasoning and question, Carl, and this explanation seems to contradict reason given the differences in early and later bumpers. I can tell you that the

earliest exhaust finisher is the longer, mostly black, finisher with a short chrome banding at the tip. I am looking at one still in the wrapper with a part number sticker of

20105-E4100. I always associate the E4100s number as being the earliest.

Carl, you would have been my "Go To" person to flesh this out so, I will still add my disclaimer that this is just the facts as I see them. Perhaps someone living in Lutz

could shed more light on this?

Dan

As a post script, my one other thought is, for whatever reason, the shorter, mostly chrome, finishers may have been used exclusively on muffler tail pipe assemblies supplied to post-

production parts resources found in your local dealership. I say this, because, when looking at part # 20105-E4100 in my parts CD, the inclusive dates are "up to 7/73", and there

is no part number for a later finisher.

Just thought of something else to add to the mystery. When the tail pipe assemblies were available at the parts dept., (and maybe somewhere in the country at some remote

dealship you may still find one) I ordered #20100-E4100. What arrived was an assembly with #20100-N3300 embossed on the bottom of the exhaust tube with the shorter,

chrome finisher attached. When the earlier assembly #20100-E4100 was available over the counter, was the earlier, longer finisher part of the assembly? Why could you purchase

the earlier finisher separately over the counter, and not the later, short finisher?

I'm going to stop, now, because " I'M GETTING CONFUSED"!

So, as you would say Carl, FWIW.

Edited by AZ-240z

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I do not believe that it is, and you have to wonder why a Z with only 8K miles needed a new muffler. My White 72 has 80K miles and the original exhaust system - header pipe through muffler. But as stated - you would have to see it in person. Additionally - the condition of the engine does not say "8K" miles either. A friends 72 engine with 16K original miles still looks show ready.

On another thread - I spent several days visiting muffler shops - trying to find the best match to OEM. There are few that are very close.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl, I have asked if they can document the miles on the car.

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Hi Carl,

Some photos of the engine compartment that you requested. Original carbs going back on and bad hoses and unoriginal clamps have been replaced already. Car came from same dealer as orange one.

Mark

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Carl, I have asked if they can document the miles on the car.

Can you also ask about the mysterious vanishing choke handle :confused:

Some of the interior shots show the choke handle missing, then it makes an appearence.

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My experience with Hagerty and other "specialty" insurer's always had this caveat that the car had to be "limited in driving to and from show's or events and not used for daily driving"" which makes the car a trailer/garage queen. Just my 2 cents.

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My experience with Hagerty and other "specialty" insurer's always had this caveat that the car had to be "limited in driving to and from show's or events and not used for daily driving"" which makes the car a trailer/garage queen. Just my 2 cents.

There was no such limitations put on my policy. Carl?

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Mine has the 2k mile limitation as well s the "limited in driving to and from show's or events and not used for daily driving". Works for me

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My resto-moded 1972 240Z would be lucky to be a #3 car with the modifcations.

With a few pics, Hagarty insured it for 27,500, (what I asked for), without any qustions or reservations. The Hagarty rep on the phone even asked if I wanted to insure it for more...

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QUOTE=mjr45;415659]My experience with Hagerty and other "specialty" insurer's always had this caveat that the car had to be "limited in driving to and from show's or events and not used for daily driving"" which makes the car a trailer/garage queen. Just my 2 cents.

Not True - at least with Hagerty. There is no specified mileage limit and the only restriction is that the car can not be used as "transportation". Nor can it be used temporarily in place of your transportation vehicle if it is in the Shop.

Automobile Insurance is sold State To State - and the General Insurance Companies/Carriers aka "Full Line Carriers" have certain legal restrictions/requirement etc specific to every State. They sell the broad line of insurance products - Auto, Home, Liability, Business etc. But there are things that they really can't handle effectively for any number of reasons. Classic Cars/Boats etc are one such category.

That is where Speciality Insurers come in. Classic, Collector and Special Interest Automobiles are a small market and require specialized knowledge. The Speciality Insurers are limited by law to specific insurance products not commonly offered by the Full Line Carriers, but for which there is need.

Cars that you use as daily drivers ie for transportation to/from work, for trips to the shopping mall etc etc must be insured by one of the Full Line Carriers in your State. Cars that you own for pleasure and which are not used as transportation - fall to the Speciality Insurers. The Speciality Insurers usually issue an insurance policy that has an "Agreed Value", where the Full Line Carriers usually issue policies that have "ACV" or "Stated Values". When you have a loss on a Classic Car there is a huge difference in how you deal with either.

With the Policy that Hagerty issues - you can drive your Z for pleasure as much as you want. Drive it cross country to the next Z Car Convention etc. On average Classic Cars are driven less than 3000 miles per year - and the underwriters do watch that over a period of years you average something close to that - that is because miles of exposure on the highway equals "risk".. if everyone drove more the risk would go up and the premiums would too.

I can drive my Z car to work to show it off every once in a while - that is pleasure use. But I can't use it to replace my transportation vehicle {it has to be fully operational sitting a home}.

Always READ you policy - Agents will make off handed remarks that have no force in the policy. Before they issue a policy they may ask you how much you drive the car, what insurance company issues your Auto Insurance for the daily driver {you have to have one}, where the car is kept etc. and not everyone gives the right answers...

On the up side - Classic Car Insurance is about 10% of what my daily drivers cost.. because the loss rate is very low for them.

FWIW,

Carl B.

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All this talk about insurance has made my policy feel quite inadequate :o

I only have it covered for what I paid - $4,700 - Just to cover my losses if it were to wreck.

Is it a complete, more or less Stock example? Is it used for pleasure only? Is it garage kept? Do you have another car insured as a Daily Driver? Good driving record? Over the age of 25 with no youthful drivers in the home?

Is it presently insured with a Classic Car Insurance Comany or not?

If it is indeed kept and owned as a Classic Car used for pleasure only - then yes it is under-insured. I'd have an Agreed Value policy on that of at least $12K today. That would assure that if it was damaged it would not be totalled for some minor repairs. Also prices on very clean 240Z's are going up again and they are getting harder to find. It won't be too long before a decend car will cost more than $10K and really nice one will be over $16k.

If you have a regular insurance policy - you may have an "Actual Cash Value" or "Stated Value" Policy. In which case if it was damaged the insurance adjustor would say the car was actually worth $1500.00 - they would total it and settle for something close to $1500.00 {or run you around endlessly - until you settle}. If you have a Stated Value policy it is better - but still up to the adjustor to agree or disagree with the Stated Value. With an Agreed Value on an Classic Car Policy there is no adjustor.. they either fix the car spending up to the Agreed Value - or they send you a check for that Agreed Value and total the car.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Edited by Carl Beck

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Hi Carl,

Some photos of the engine compartment that you requested. Original carbs going back on and bad hoses and unoriginal clamps have been replaced already. Car came from same dealer as orange one.

Mark

Hi Mark:

Thanks - very nice looking engine compartment, that looks like a super low mileage example. Of course if you to the original carbs back on - you'll have to install all the original fuel line wraps etc. The yellow dot on your fuel pump shows that it was returned to the Dealer for Fuel System modifications as well.

Look at the Cad Plating on the parts on your engine and then look at the one Advertised. The amount of grime on each, the condition of the blue paint on the block etc. The staining and grime on the valve covers. I'd love to go inspect the Car Advertised...

I still say that even given the super low mileage is correct - the car still needs a lot of elbow grease to bring it up to a standard that could command something above $20K in todays market. I do know a few Collectors that LOVE super low mileage near perfect examples - and they have paid silly money when they find the right car..

FWIW,

Carl B.

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Thanks Carl,

Just dropped carbs off today for a rebuild and to sort out parts that did not come with the car. Have my work cut out but got the winter to take care of everything. The search begins...

Agree the orange car does not seem up to par with miles they indicate really depends on weather it was driven in and how it was stored.

The dealer this car is at bases their prices off a 280 Zzzap that also had low mileage that they sold high.

The fuel line wraps were an add on if you had vapor lock issues. I had a 73 and they were dealer installed when I started to have those issues. Not all cars had the problems and they tried other remedies as well as you probably know. I'm going to have the inside of the exhaust manifold ceramic coated to help with the heat issues along with the back side of the heat shields. Don't tell anyone... Ha Ha.

Keep up with all the great knowledge to all of us, we all appreciate it.

Regards,

Mark

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Carl, I have asked if they can document the miles on the car.

Here is the response I recieved in regard to my request for documentation on the 8K miles.

"This car only has the original documents (window sticker, sales reciepts etc, books tools)from new and only the one owner. No service records, oil changes or carfax. This is a REAL nice car with the correct miles. Also has the correct rims w/ hubcaps(no repro parts here). We here at Exotic Classics do not fake, or fool buyers to buy are cars that do not represent. We also hand select our cars when most dealers just do your average deals. I personally have owned three 240Z in my past and know them better than most folks. I am very honest and true to what I say. I only collect original cars and know their value as you read in my last emails. Please, if interested, come by or send someone who knows these cars and do a proper PPI (Pre Purchase Inspection). We stand behind this car and miles as we do all our vehicles.

As a collector of only original classic cars, I would not hesitate to grab this one since it is one of my favorite cars here. This is a one of one."

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I just found this past listing on EBay. There were no bids at the opening bid of $24,500.00. Steve has indicated that they may be willing to take $31,000.00 for the car. I am surprised that the car did not have at least a opening bid at $24,500.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/240z-/150943120145?_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_16051wt_1165

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I think they can dream all they want - it cost them money to hold a car. No "Dealer" that I know of would pay more than $20K for that car in todays economy. If you really like the car tell Steve you are a buyer at $25K - and in the mean time you'll keep looking. It's the end of the month and nearing the end of the year - Christmas is comming and Winter is here - all this adds to VERY SLOW Sports Car Sales... In the mean time we'll keep looking for you... If the Dealer wants to be silly - let him keep the car for a few more months.. As long as you show a lot of interest - they won't DEAL..

FWIW,

Carl B.

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Here is a comparison engine shot of both. Look at the fuel rails and throttle linkage.

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Here is a comparison engine shot of both. Look at the fuel rails and throttle linkage.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]58094[/ATTACH]

i'm betting the throttle linkage on the silver was refurbed along with the carbs. I think the smog rail is a better indicator of mileage.

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Just went through the pictures again. That interior says 8K miles. Very little sag in the seats, clean wood on the steering wheel as well as the black paint, although it may have been touched up. The foot pad on the floor mat is intact and it looks to be the correct carpet. Radio knobs are very clean. Very nice interior indeed.

In spite of the muffler discrepancy, the chrome in the muffler area is very clean. On my ’70 with 97K miles, the exhaust has definitely effected the chrome finish and rubber in that area. The chrome and rubber finishers look to be very clean on this car.

Now, how to explain the engine? So many scenarios here. Owner could have used an engine cleaner on it and not rinsed thoroughly before running motor hot. Car could have been kept in a coastal environment with salt in the air. Maybe in an industrial area where dew point would cause water to be slightly acidic. These last two might also effect the rear muffler. Hard to say. Would really be nice to have a set of eyes trained eyes look at this and report back. Sometimes pictures are very forgiving of a cars faults.

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Hi Carl,

Some photos of the engine compartment that you requested. Original carbs going back on and bad hoses and unoriginal clamps have been replaced already. Car came from same dealer as orange one.

Mark

Hi All - had to chime in.......the silver 1973 was my car for about 2 years...I believe I owned it from 2009 to 2011. I bought it from a collector/friend in GA (he lived there at that time)....if it has an automatic transmission than it definitly was mine. I sold it in 2011 to another collector/friend in Long Island NY who either consigned it or sold it to the dealer in NY. When I got the '73 it had about 6,000 miles on it so I put about 1,000 miles per year on it over that period of time. I wanted to drive it but didn't want to hit 10,000 miles so I decided to sell it. I bought it with the original flat top carbs but we couldn't get them properly tuned so I bought a pair of round top SU's from a friend in Lutz. The original flat tops and related parts should have been included when you purchased it because I saved everything and passed them on when I sold it. I loved that car....I hope you are enjoying it.

Jeff Mader Sudbury MA

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Hi Mark:

Thanks - very nice looking engine compartment, that looks like a super low mileage example. Of course if you to the original carbs back on - you'll have to install all the original fuel line wraps etc. The yellow dot on your fuel pump shows that it was returned to the Dealer for Fuel System modifications as well.

Look at the Cad Plating on the parts on your engine and then look at the one Advertised. The amount of grime on each, the condition of the blue paint on the block etc. The staining and grime on the valve covers. I'd love to go inspect the Car Advertised...

I still say that even given the super low mileage is correct - the car still needs a lot of elbow grease to bring it up to a standard that could command something above $20K in todays market. I do know a few Collectors that LOVE super low mileage near perfect examples - and they have paid silly money when they find the right car..

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl - you know this silver Z to. It was bought by our friend who at the time lived in GA (now FL). I think when he bought it it had 5K miles on it. He did a ton of work to it as it sat for 25 years....I bought it from him a few years back....and eventually sold it to the collector in Long Island.

Jeff Mader

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Hi Jeff - Yes, I know the car. It was originally sold here in Florida. Two or Three people that all worked at the same place had owned it one after the other. Our friend in Atlanta talked to all of them before he bought it. I located several of the 240Z's that wound up in his collection. Over the past 15 years or so - I've personally seen about 25 240Z's with less than 25K original miles on them. If they were driven and garage kept - they all had cleaner engines than the subject car being advertised. That Silver car was kept in a Car Port for more than 10 years before it was sold - but it has always been a beautiful example.

Mileage is important but it is only one factor that goes into the value of the car - Condition is perhaps the Top Factor. Our friend in Florida, then our friend in Atlanta owned a White 72 with 16K original miles. I was there when it came off the truck from California. We went over that car for more than an hour trying to find one thing that wasn't perfect - couldn't find it. Engine Cad Plating everything still looked like the day it was on the showroom floor. As clean an undercarriage as the day it was produced..

8K, 18K, 28K original miles doesn't matter - the condition of the engine in the Z that is the subject of the Thread knocks the car out of the Top Money category. Not to mention none of us have a clue what condition the fuel system is in etc etc.

Just my opinion..

Carl B.

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I agree with Carl......Jerry will own the orange car for $25,000.00 if he offers and then ignores it. When all is said and done, you'll have another $5,000.00 in the car to bring it up to snuff with Jeff's old silver Z. You'll also need to exchange the flat tops for round tops IMO..........sorry Rich.......they really do make it a better package.

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You'll also need to exchange the flat tops for round tops IMO..........sorry Rich.......they really do make it a better package.
Grrrrrr.......like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa :D ..........I know, I know

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