noob valve adjusting on 1978 280z

[argniest]

The car hasnt been started for a few days now...since I have been running all these tests. So that should meet your criteria about the battery. It seems to me that since the dropping resistors are going to drop the volatage to 3 volts or whatever it is the FI's need, that it doesnt matter that I am getting 10.5v on each of the FI circuits? As long as it supplies more than 3 volts, it would just be dropped down anyway. Or are you saying it does matter?

I think it is interesting, that using the same grounding point, would show different voltages for the different circuits like 11.91, 11.5, and all the ~10.5's. I dont know if that would be typical or not. But when it says everything should read battery voltage which is 12.34 in my car and none of my voltage numbers are reading that. Just dont how critical this voltage information is or not.

I realize there are different lengths of wire, different connections paths, different amounts of corrosion, resistance, etc. :-) that could be causing the voltage differences. Remember though, I have done a lot of cleaning of sensors and connections all through out the engine compartment (havent really cleaned much inside car except fuse box, and replaced all fuses)

I will wait and see what others think about this data. BTW, I doublechecked everything too, same results.

QUESTION: Should I clean the ECU 35 pin connector with deoxit while I have it disconnected? It actually looks clean to me. but who knows for sure exactly how clean it is.

Edited April 21, 2011 by argniest

[FastWoman]

Argneist, I've got a bit on my plate this evening, but I'll research these things later. I'm pretty sure the voltages you show ARE battery voltages, not voltages from the ECU. (The ECU is unplugged, right?) It's been a while since I've run these tests and looked at the schematics. What is your battery voltage, BTW?

The air regulator resistance is about right. It has a heater coil inside it that heats the bimetal coil that closes down the air flow.

I'd be interested in a few measurements that might or might not be in the EFI Bible. Anyway, later... Meanwhile, I have to buy lumber and nails for some work tomorrow.

[FastWoman]

Oh, and didn't see your last post.

Yes, clean any connectors...

I shall return!

[argniest]

Argneist, I've got a bit on my plate this evening, but I'll research these things later. I'm pretty sure the voltages you show ARE battery voltages, not voltages from the ECU. (The ECU is unplugged, right?) It's been a while since I've run these tests and looked at the schematics. What is your battery voltage, BTW?

The air regulator resistance is about right. It has a heater coil inside it that heats the bimetal coil that closes down the air flow.

I'd be interested in a few measurements that might or might not be in the EFI Bible. Anyway, later... Meanwhile, I have to buy lumber and nails for some work tomorrow.

Let me know if you want me to test anything else. For now, I am hooking ECU back up (Yes it was totally unplugged)

And I am about to use a noid light, and spark plug tester to evaluate the spark and injector, one by one, and compare to each other

[argniest]

Then I am going to use propane into the intake back by number 6,5,4, and see what effect it has. Im a little despodant that the wiring is all appearing to be OK. No smoking gun there, yet.

UPDATE, I THINK I FOUND A PROBLEM HOUSTON

Well so tonight I hooked up the noid light to each injector, and it flashed on all of them. Seemed about the same intensity, if that mattered.

Now I hooked up several spark plug testers...but the one that has a little clamp on it, and you can see the color of the spark, the size of the spark, and if it goes dark (a miss?). Well that is exactly what I saw happening in several of the plugs. 6 didnt seem to miss, but I only watched it for like maybe 1 minute. 5 seemed to be missing once in a while where the spark just missed a beat or two and disappeared, and 4 definately went dark....I cant be imagining it, I mean it was gone for like 1/4 second or long, and 3 didnt seem to miss, but 2 seems to miss the longest...where the plug was definately dark inside, noticible again, but I cant say exactly for how long. But I am sure in slo-mo, it would seem like a lot longer....since normally that spark was just dancing around and around and around....and then BOOP, BOOP, OUT! GO! THE! LIGHTS!

I couldnt test 1 because the stupid clamp broke and I just fixed it. Its too late to start it up now, dont wanna wizz of my neighbors. So I will test #1 tomorrow.

But another online friend of mine told me we definately found something, and to replace ignition coil and if that doesnt fix it to replace pickup coil next.

He really believed that we finally found a smoking gun!!!! real evidence. I told him I was kind of nervous that I was seeing things, but I mean it was dark inside for a small period of time. And he said he has seen that happen many times, and in fact said it could have been why the car even died on me 3 times now....jsut as I was driving down the road...and poof engine stops, electricity was still there. And each time it restarted...it was kinda hard starting, but that could be other issues.

SOOOOOOOOO I am ordering those parts and/or just a refurb dizzy tomorrow. And then I will retest, and if I dont see that problem any more....I am going on one heck of a test drive.

I mean all these tests are showing good results, nothing wrong, until tonight. YEAH! I hope this is it! At least to solve a major problem...I know I still have to adjust valves...I will I will I promise. :-)

Edited April 22, 2011 by argniest

[ZCurves]

If you do not adjust your valves, you shall be punished! Punished I say!

[argniest]

IM GONNA IM GONNA!!!!! REALLY IM 'GONNA' ADJUST ME VALVES

But I am also going to replace ignition coil and pickup coil. And on my lunch break, I am going to confirm the missing problem again, by watching the sparks fly. I am sure I will see the same things.

OK: Tested again, I definately see lapses of when the spark is firing. In fact on #4 and #5 (the plugs that were the black carbon looking) it almost looks like half the time they are sparking and the other half the time they are dark. Number 1 and 6 looked like they missed spark a few times, and 2 and 3 were missing spark several times too. 2 wasnt as bad as 4 and 5, but definately goes dark, without any spark!!!!! for a brief time within a matter of 10 or 15 seconds, its going dark (no spark) several times.

SMOKING GUN! =======> IGNITION COIL AND/OR PICKUP COIL?

Edited April 22, 2011 by argniest

[240260280z]

I think it was recommended to check the distributor cap and rotor. Easy to do and very inexpensive to replace.

A bad coil would affect all sparks. A bad disturber cap would affect specific ones.

FYI adjusting valves is a heck of a lot easier than all of the stuff you have done troubleshooting... I hope that gives you confidence

[240260280z]

Also check where plug wires connect to distributor cap.

You can also measure FI flow: get 6 small glasses of same type, pull FI rail and place glasses under each injector. Crank the car to fill them up. After a certain amount of time you will see if you have even flow by the amount in the glasses... keep sparks away.

[FastWoman]

Yes, Argneist, you will be punished! Adjust the valves! Grrrrrrr!

That said, I think you'll see marked improvement when you straighten out your ignition. Your motor might not end up 100% right (or might), but I think you will see MAJOR improvement.

This is what I'd replace, even without testing:

Spark plugs (NGK B6ES-11)

Plug wires if they're older than say 5 yr. or if you don't know their age. Use the NGK spiral wound silicone insulated wires, similar to the ones you have.

Cap

Rotor

Once you've replaced all of these, try starting your engine and see how it idles. Readjust your idle speed if necessary. Check your engine vacuum. Listen to the exhaust. The exhaust puffs should be perfectly spaced. There should be nothing random about them. Put your timing light on the wire between your ignition coil and the center post of your distributor. There should be no missing flashes. Then check back with us. You might have other ignition components that need replacement, but the above should be replaced irregardless.

Oh, and I think you've ruled out problems with the electrical firing of the injectors with your noid lights. That doesn't mean the injectors are necessarily in the clear, though. Your 4-6 injectors might be clogged or stuck. But for now, the smoking gun seems to be elsewhere.

Good job, BTW! Well done!

[argniest]

I hear ya, I have gone through a lot, and I dont regret anything I have done to the car. I wanted to replace as many old parts as I could. WHen I saw the 1/2" of rust in the tank, well, now evrything that touched fuel is brand new. I have reviewed processs to adjust valves and will be doing that as soon as possible. ALl the noid light tests were fine, the ECU tests in the FI bible were all normal. NOw today I learned that the 1978 has some kind of EI Control module???? I dont remember seeing that anywhere,except when I was looking at a parts list from motor sport auto. Can anyone tell me about that, and could that be causing my spark issues?

UPDATE: I did another test (using a new spark plug tester, the kind you actually see and hear the spark, which is the same as the other one). SO to rule out bad equipment and therefore bad results, I tested a third time. And now that I know what I am looking for, let me say this. I revved up engine while plug tester was on each wire, and WOW sometimes the SPARK WAS GONE for like 2 seconds at a time. When I relased throttle, the spark came back, but still was missing, then sparking, then missing etc

#1 and #6 were not nearly as bad as others, but I did see and hear them missing. #2 was pretty bad, it would miss for like 1/4 to a 1/2 second at a time, and multiple times in a row. #3 was pretty bad too, not as bad as 2. And 4 and 5 (their spark plugs were the ones that were black and dryish looking) were missing for like 1 to 2 seconds. I am saying, there was no visible spark at all for like 2 seconds, and then it would come back for a few, then go away, etc. And revved up engine each time I tested another plug, and sure enough it would still be missing spark.

So does this likely mean I should replace ignition coil first and then recheck.

NOW THE QUESTION IS THIS, do you think I can buy an ignition coil locally for my 1978? Or will I have to get it from the blackdragon, motorsport, etc or my Z guy from the NW of course.

Because it would be nice if I coud go get it right now, and slap it in there. Im dying to try this ASAP! and recheck....it may not solve all problems (I know I know valves) but could solve most of them!!!

BUt maybe its bad karma to put some hack cheapo piece on there???? I normally buy only the good stuff.

ALso, do you think I can get a decent cap and rotor locally. NOrmally I order all parts online, except my plugs. But now I am dying to try all these suggested things....plugs (have new lready), NGK wires...can you send me a link to which ones you mean, rotor, distrib cap, and ignition coil

MY INJECTORS: I am hoping they are fine. SInce they are brand new and good quality, and I was very careful when installing them and handling them...so it was yet another first time doing something like this, of course now, it seems realativly trivial to do it again, as most other things I have done now.

Edited April 22, 2011 by argniest

[FastWoman]

I have an MSD Blaster 2 coil on my system. Nice coil, but I don't see it listed at AZ. I see a Blaster 3 coil for $47, but I'm unfamiliar with the Blaster 3. I'm guessing it's an improved version of the Blaster 2? Mine is a bit smaller than the OEM coil. I had to put a wrap of rubber innertube around the coil to mount it in the OEM bracket. You can also buy an MSD brand bracket. You should be able to find these at your local parts store.

I think you have to order NGK wires. I haven't found them locally in my area. Here's an auction for a set on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NGK-8105-Spark-Plug-Wires-Set-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZModelQ3a280Q5AQQhashZitem3a64cf3b36QQitemZ250799405878QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Advance Auto parts in my area carries the NGK plugs.

I would think any cap and rotor would be fine -- available at an auto parts store of your choice.

Your local parts store might not have all items in stock, but it would probably take no more than 1 day to get them in from a nearby warehouse.

Keep in mind there is still one item in your system that could be bad -- your ignition module. Try the rest, and see how your car runs. If you still have ignition problems, then consider either a replacement OEM ignition module or a GM HEI retrofit.

Edited April 22, 2011 by FastWoman