LHD 240Z in 1969 TOKYO auto show

[Caen Fred]

Allan and Kats YOU ARE SO WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! :finger:

Tsssssss you should know that it couldn't possibly been a RHD at first, because Nissan is a French Company and the French build LHD cars. Really you should know better, what? Did I say something stupid here? :dead:

[CoastGuardZ]

hey kats!

I like your version of the Datsun to Nissan usa name change better. the version I've always heard goes like this...

The old company name Datsun was used so not to bring shame upon Nissan if the USA was to reject it. Once it was proven that Datsun had done well here in the states they changed the name to Nissan like the rest of the company. This was always easy to believe here for me because we Americans are aware that Pride runs very deep in Japan and that it is very bad to bring shame on ones family (or in this case buisness).

Well, take care.

Nate

[CoastGuardZ]

surely you jest!

There is no way you could possibly be serious. Because if you are then I've been right about the French all along. Just because it was mandated after WWII that the AXIS powers car companies be paired with ALLIED companies doesn't by any means make Nissan a damn French company!

So take it back before I push the big red button and remove France from the globe!

Nate

p.s. Thanks for French fries and French toast!

[Caen Fred]

You forgot the French Kiss... :love: :love:

The one Renault did to Nissan, investing heavily in their company… so much that’s Nissan is almost French now, yes it’s true…

And a few Nissan engines have found their way into big Renault. I am sure they will not re-badge the 350z as the new Alpine A110 but the new Micra is based on the Renault Clio chassis. And it’s only the beginning.

Take care, Fred.

[Mike]

Originally posted by CoastGuardZ

So take it back before I push the big red button and remove France from the globe!

Nate, wasn't it you who said that Americans are stuck on themselves? Spoken like a true American.

I see a smiley in your post so I can only assume that you're kidding. I just want to make sure that everyone stays happy here because we have members from all over the globe. Kats is from Japan -- his English is impressive!! And many others are from UK and Australia.

Anyway, that was a general message pointed at everyone to keep things going in a good way......

My comments above the 'serious' topic were intended to be humorous. :cheeky:

[HS30-H]

Don't worry Mike, I think Nate and Fred understand eachother. I think Nate's a peacemaker ( he's stuck up for me a few times ).

I've had a look at a few other ( non Z ) BB's and I think this one does quite well for peace, love and harmony. Some of the others look pretty acrimonious from the outside. Hope we don't get like that.

I think its interesting what Kats is saying about the demise of the "Datsun" name. There seem to be quite a few people who cherish it, and would like to see it come back. However, the situation here in the UK ( although admittedly only a very small part of the world ) is quite different. When Ghosn made his recent statement of intent to do something about bringing back the Datsun brand, many motoring journalists and news media people here in the UK were making all sorts of jokes about it. I am sorry to say that the Datsun name here in the UK conjures up very negative images for many people. Most of this is down to the activities of "Datsun UK" ( the franchise holders who were the first importers of Nissan's products to the UK ). They insisted on importing the most bread-and-butter Datsun models ( the Z was the exception ) and they almost made a point of fostering a negative image for the brand. They had many disagreements with Nissan, until Nissan could bear no more and ended the relationship.

In light of the above, as far as the situation in the UK was concerned it was probably not a bad thing for Nissan to get rid of the Datsun brand. They were probably hoping to get rid of some of the negative connotations and give the Nissan brand a leg-up and a fresh start here. I certainly don't remember anybody here protesting about it.................

Its interesting that the Japanese "Home" market S30-series Z cars ( and probably many other models ) were not branded as Datsuns, and in fact great lengths were gone to in avoidance of the name. When I first got my Fairlady 240ZG I was fascinated to note that there was no "Datsun" branding anywhere on the car. Even the pressed aluminium step plates in the door apertures do not have the "Datsun" brand on them - they are just plain. This has led to some Japanese enthusiasts seeking out the "Export" version parts ( which they see as interesting and unusual ) and fitting them to their cars.

Personally, I would rather have the PRINCE MOTOR COMPANY revived. That's a cause I could really get behind.

Regards,

Alan T.

[2ManyZs]

Alan, sounds like this might be something interesting to you.

http://www.forbes.com/2002/05/27/0527feat.html

Personally my vote would go for the Sunbeam Tiger.....

[Ben]

Alan, you bring up a very valid point.

Even here in Australia, where if you drive an S30 Z you get complimented by everyone you meet (some who had one, some who wished they did) the name Datsun can conjur up some very nasty thoughts;

Cedric - great looks

240/260/280/300C - likewise

120Y (B210) - 120 WHY?

200B (810) - the 180B (610) with 20 more problems....

The 'local' early Bluebird (910) - did someone say rust & bad looks?

Unfortunately that stigma associated with some of the less successful Datsuns is a problem.

At the same time, everyone here knows someone who had a 120Y or 180B & although they hated it at the time, it was the most reliable & somehow satisfying car they've had. For some reason, most people seem to miss the crappy old Datsuns they once owned...:surprised

My vote is also with the Sunbeam Tiger. There were several competing in the Classic Adelaide last month - yum

PS

Please note that the opinions expressed above on 'old Datsuns' are not that of the author, who has friends with very fine examples of both the 120Y & 910 series.

[kats]

Hello everyone,

I want to reply each of you because every little sentence is so interesting for me,but I can not do that.

In fact,I need to take a little bit long time to read and understand correctly what you intend to tell me. I still got problems of translating for some sentence in this thread.

So I am sorry and let me just keep talking ahead.

Today,I want to ask everyone for some question.

Please let me know your opinion about following.

#1 Japanese TV show said Nissan's sale result started

descending

in late 70's (especially in the U.S.)due to brand

changed from DATSUN to Nissan.

#2 Also they said people in the U.S. loved and were so familiar

with DATSUN,they disappointed in that change.

As a result, people in the U.S. became away from Nissan

gradually.

#3 So,former president ISHIHARA must be accused. This is all his

responsibility.

What do you think of these?

Now for me,I feel something is changing in my mind.

I realized not every country loved DATSUN according to your presentations.

I am getting clear step by step.

Thank you.

kats

[Caen Fred]

Hello Kats,

I can only speak for myself, but I grew up in front of the French Datsun headquarter in Le Chesnay France, the name was "Richard". I saw very few Z in the batch of Datsun that arrived at that time.

France had a protectionist politic towards Japanese cars at the time and they had tight quotas concerning their imports. I can't tell you how much exactly but very few.

So when they made their orders to Datsun they imported 99% sedans and small cars... I think that only 472 Z of all sorts made their way to our country.

So here Datsun had never been associated with sports car, only as cheap alternative to crapy local cars!!!! When they moved to the Nissan badge, nobody paid attention...

It's funny how here, the only sporty jap car that come to mind to a French is the Toyota Celica ??????

I guess we missed a big chunk of car history, isolated in our certitude...

[HS30-H]

Hi everyone,

2Many - I used to own a Sunbeam Alpine ( Tiger's poor four-banger brother ) and it was AWFUL. That car taught me all about "scuttle shake". I suppose they must have beefed up the chassis on the Tiger. Being an Englishman, I have to say that there are frankly not that many old British cars that I would covet. I've owned a lot of bad ones. Maybe I think I want to own something so-called "exotic"!

Ben - sounds like the situation in Australia was fairly similar to the UK in the '60's and '70's. Even though the cars got grudging respect for being well put-together and fairly highly-specced for the price, there was always that element of prejudice ( sometimes verging on racism ) that damned everything the Japanese made as a "copy" or inferior in some way. I strongly suspect that this originated from wartime ill-feeling and propaganda, and I have to say that I STILL hear anti-Japanese comments in relation to cars. I find it quite disgusting, and it certainly damns those who make the comments as idiots and bigots.

Fred, that's a good point about import restrictions. Many European countries had these in the '60's and '70's to help protect their national car industries. This was particularly true in Italy - where you hardly ever used to see a foreign car. We had a semi-protectionist policy in the UK, where they just taxed the hell out of foreign imports. That's one of the things that put the price of the Z up in the UK market ( along with the long-distance shipping ). The cheaper models did not get hit so badly, so British people saw more of the cheap-and-cheerful four-doors and formed a mental image of the Datsun brand as something boring or ridiculous, despite the fact that it was a great product. I guess this did not happen in the USA?

Kats, I cannot and should not comment on what the USA thought, but surely Nissan's sales would have gone down in the USA whether they changed the name of the brand or not? Don't forget the crisis that the world economy was in during that period. We had the "Oil Crisis" ( the big increase in world oil prices caused by OPEC ) and basically a big economic slump after the boom of the Sixties. Add all the tide of new legislation on safety ( Ralph Nader et al ) along with stricter emissions regulations and a lot of anti Japanese-car maker protests ( I remember seeing American auto-workers abusing a Nissan on the TV news ), and it was clear that the carmakers were forced to retreat and regroup. They came back with some very badly-conceived models in the late Seventies, and surely that is what hit sales most? I can't see that the name change had that much impact........................

When you mention Japanese TV, are you talking about that "Project X" special on the S30-Z made by NHK? I have a video of it, and I must say that I think it was deeply flawed. I think they got a lot of things wrong. I applaud their efforts on trying to cover such a subject ( I am a great supporter of the "unsung heroes" of Japanese industry ) but I think it was very badly researched and presented. The S30-series Z that they had in the studio was not even an early one. The whole programme was looking for a hero, and once again Mr Katayama was brought on as a figurehead. I still have feelings of unease about this, as he tends to overshadow ALL the other figures in the company history of that period. Poor Matsuo and his team are only ever promoted by Katayama, and most of them also left Nissan a long time ago. I can understand people thinking that Ishihara was responsible ( everybody wants to look for a scapegoat ) but the WHOLE management of that period was responsible. I think whatever they did at that time would have been seen as the wrong thing, and their hand was forced by economic and political conditions.

Generally speaking, I find it very regrettable that large ( almost faceless ) corporations like Nissan did not look after , nurture and support many of their key staff during that era. Many very talented people were almost forced out of Nissan, when they should have been promoted and given greater power. That whole thing of Japanese team-identity still dominates, and this is why hardly anybody knows who designed and styled their cars. This left the door open for opportunists like Goertz to claim credit for something that he had very little to do with. Who knows the names of any famous Japanese car designers / stylists? Not many, I suspect. Compare this to the American / Italian / French / British "superstar" name designers which companies actively promote. This is not the done thing in Japan. I think its a good thing to some extent ( sometimes you see stylists taking all the praise for something that a team of hundreds worked on ) but it does leave Japan open and vulnerable in some respects.

Regards,

Alan T.

[CoastGuardZ]

Al, "Blessed are the peacemakers"

or

"Happy are the merrymakers!"

I would like it to be known that outside of our happy little clique of historic japanese car lovers that we are joked about and not understood.

For those of you that do not know I am an Electronics Technican in the US Coast Guard. In front of my work bench hang two pictures of Z's. One is a light blue 77 280 and the other has two 71 240's, white and silver, that are quite modified. Many people come in and out of our shop and nearly all have something to say. They have been mistaken for RX-7's, opel GT's, and even Corvettes (I never said any of the people were smart). The main problem is that when I say they are DATSUN Z cars everyone conjurs up images and speaks of little cheap and slow economy cars and one person even asked "if they were so great why did Nissan buy them out?", I then showed him the door. The people that do understand what they are think I mean 280ZX because that is the only Z they know. It's almost like fighting a losing battle. Oh well ignorance is bliss.

I love Datsuns, all of them. At first I was cool with them bringing it back. But the more I think about it, let us hang on to our dignity and leave it in the past. The only way they could pull it off and do justice to the cars that were spectacular would be a global issue of No frills performance cars. Almost using the Datsun nameplate as a marketing tool to sell NISMO type vehicles.

Such as a stripped down race version of the 350 and Sentra spec-V for starts. Maybe even a Baja style Frontier 4x4.

What do ya'll think?

Nate:bunny: